Quoted: Quoted: Ruh roh! You just said "religion". JavaMan's going to get you! Forgive me if I don't panic.

He's going to be very put out about that! Didn't you know that we're supposed to tremble when a DUer "rights our wrongs"?

Quoted: I don't think that it is Washington praying so much as it is the cross formed by the trees above the horse's ass.  That is BLATANT pushing of christianity.  How dare they show that cross in our schools.

Speaking of a horse's ass.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't think that it is Washington praying so much as it is the cross formed by the trees above the horse's ass.  That is BLATANT pushing of christianity.  How dare they show that cross in our schools. Speaking of a horse's ass.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Quoted: At least I can spell.  And punctuate.  And capitalize  And all much better than you.  How's it feel to be stupider than a "dumbass?"

Apparently you can not.

Quoted: It's called the First Amendment, and has been ruled upon by the SCOTUS in countless cases and that makes it the law of the land whether you like it or not.  And whether you agree with it or not. "

So if SCOTUS ruled that you have no right to keep and bear arms you would be first in line to hand them in to the "proper" authorities?

Quoted: He's going to be very put out about that! Didn't you know that we're supposed to tremble when a DUer "rights our wrongs"?

I'll go pray about it. That should send him into the stratosphere.

Quoted: At least I can spell.  And punctuate.  And capitalize  And all much better than you.  How's it feel to be stupider than a "dumbass?"

You have apparently forgotten that proper grammar does not begin a sentence (three run-on sentences at that) with "and."

Go back to grammar school if you are going to try to use grammar to make yourself look smarter than another person.  

Oh, and your village called.  They need their back under the bridge.

Quoted: Quoted: DUh is needing their idiot back.             Are you people so intellectually challenged and incapable of entering into an intelligent discussion that your only recourse is calling others names like "troll?"  How pathetic.

Spoken like a true idiots idiot--maybe this is more to you liking

I think this thread is a perfect example of why you should never bring libtard ideas to AR15.

             That IS ALL!!

Fuck America, long live whatever.  The war for our survival is over, only isolated battles continue.
If only I had the firepower to support the oath I swore to the Constitution........

All those who are somehow "offended" by the picture below, please be advised that you may simply pretend that George Washington is actually trying to solve a Rubik's Cube.

Quoted: All those who are somehow "offended" by the picture below, please be advised that you may simply pretend that George Washington is actually trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. pages.prodigy.net/bjsolow/pray.jpg

Or....

He's praying to that tree.

Quoted: Why should "we" support a religious zealot who is trying to use the public classroom to push his superstitious beliefs onto students at taxpayer expense?  He doesn't deserve support, he deserves to be fired!!!

EEK...!

OhMyGod OhMYGod OhMyGod!!!



SKINNER!

SKINNER!

SKINNNN-ER...!

[gay DU voice] "I do believe I'm having the vapors!" [/gay DU voice]

A Disrupter!!!

QUICK BAN HIM---------BANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN HIM!!!




Oh wait--------------Wrong site...



Nevermind.

Quoted: All those who are somehow "offended" by the picture below, please be advised that you may simply pretend that George Washington is actually trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. pages.prodigy.net/bjsolow/pray.jpg

or consulting his magic 8-ball of victory.

Question: "Will some ignorant atheist asshole in 2006 take offense to my praying...?"

Quoted: Quoted: because it depicted his prayer at valley forge.  What has this country come to?  I think ARFCOM should send this teacher some support!  I fear where we are headed. See news article here. -Ben Why should "we" support a religious zealot who is trying to use the public classroom to push his superstitious beliefs onto students at taxpayer expense?  He doesn't deserve support, he deserves to be fired!!!

Because it was religious "zealots" like George Washington who laid there lives down for pathetic angnostic assholes to have free speech in this nation that was founded by religious zealots.

Quoted: Quoted: You are the intellectually challenged one in the discussion, fucking troll.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  Go back to DU with the rest of your kind. I'm not the one who believes in silly superstitions and magical beings.  And I don't approve of  these misguided people using tax money to try and shove their silly superstitions down innocent children's throats.  Obviously you disagree, and would rather behave like the Taliban using government to force your religious beliefs on others.

One mocks God, at ones own peril.

What's really funny is the level of hyperbole used by this idiot.

Taliban.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: because it depicted his prayer at valley forge.  What has this country come to?  I think ARFCOM should send this teacher some support!  I fear where we are headed. See news article here. -Ben Why should "we" support a religious zealot who is trying to use the public classroom to push his superstitious beliefs onto students at taxpayer expense?  He doesn't deserve support, he deserves to be fired!!! go back to DU

+1 you fricken troll

Quoted: Quoted: DUh is needing their idiot back.             Are you people so intellectually challenged and incapable of entering into an intelligent discussion that your only recourse is calling others names like "troll?"  How pathetic.

Well you are a douchebag troll liberal faggot, and to assume an intellitecual discussion would assume you have a brain... which, in cases of liberals... nope none there.

Just let me know when pissing on your prayer rug is protected under free speech...  I have a full bladder.

We are indeed aproaching the apex of this PC bullshit, and guess who isn't well armed.

Quoted: We are indeed aproaching the apex of this PC bullshit...

I certainly hope so.

I am definitely not in favor of a national religion (which is, of course, what the 1st Amendment is really all about), but this insistence that all mention of the Almighty be purged from the public discourse has gotten completely out of hand.

Im not religious! Now that this is clear I dont give a rats ass if he had a picture of Washington wiping his dick on some poor young virgins bed sheets or praying or whatever
ITS GEORGE WASHINGTON the gretaest American of all time. What the fuck is this country coming too?!?!?!?!

Ok I am deployed and I prey in the DFAC before I eat my meal is that against seperation of church and state.  No it is not I am not pushing any religion on anyone.  They don't have to prey with me they just have to respect my right to do so.  I think liberal ideas are good sometimes but when it impeads the history of the United States and people re-writing history thats where I draw the line.  

Quoted: I wonder if the 'channel one" that kids watch in homeroom ever shows ROPers praying????? SHUT IT OFF!

You mean that 18 minute Pepsi/Nike/NFL/NBA commercial?

Quoted: Quoted: because it depicted his prayer at valley forge.  What has this country come to?  I think ARFCOM should send this teacher some support!  I fear where we are headed. See news article here. -Ben Why should "we" support a religious zealot who is trying to use the public classroom to push his superstitious beliefs onto students at taxpayer expense?  He doesn't deserve support, he deserves to be fired!!!

Please...

Go back to the communist country from which you came...

Quoted: Quoted: You are the intellectually challenged one in the discussion, fucking troll.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  Go back to DU with the rest of your kind. I'm not the one who believes in silly superstitions and magical beings.  And I don't approve of  these misguided people using tax money to try and shove their silly superstitions down innocent children's throats.  Obviously you disagree, and would rather behave like the Taliban using government to force your religious beliefs on others.

Ya might want to switch to decaf!!

Imagine the reaction if this picture of George was hanging in the classroom.

Quoted: Why should "we" support a religious zealot who is trying to use the public classroom to push his superstitious beliefs onto students at taxpayer expense?  He doesn't deserve support, he deserves to be fired!!!

Ah yes!!

The voice of the enlightened graces us with his presence again!!

History, it now seems, is zealotry.

Javaman didn't just drink the kool-aid, folks!! He went back for a THIRD SERVING.

Quoted: go back to DU

Or his other passtime, insisting that the BATFE doesn't commit violations of people's rights, and also insisting that law abiding citizens are felons.

Quoted: I'm not the one who believes in silly superstitions and magical beings.  And I don't approve of  these misguided people using tax money to try and shove their silly superstitions down innocent children's throats.  Obviously you disagree, and would rather behave like the Taliban using government to force your religious beliefs on others.

Exactly!!

We are taliban wannabees!!!

Teaching the history of the United States is pushing religion down people's throats and must be outlawed!

Join the revolution, comrade!!!

Quoted: your a dumbass , and I'm done with this thread

Don't leave! It is just getting good.

See, Javaman has been an IT pro, a super huge gun dealer who doesn't deal with "pissant" civilians and OTHER professions before.

If you stick around you might get to see what bullsh*t job he comes up with next!!

Quoted: And what law would that be?

A libbie's twisted and alien view of the 1st ammendment. According to libbies, the 1st allows Howard Stern to spank strippers on national TV, but does not allow the NRA to criticize a candidate for federal office within 60 days of an election, or allow a teacher to put up a poster of George Washington or read the Constitution to his class....

Welcome to the revolution comrade! Try the grape kool-aid! It is delicious!

Quoted: Quoted: At least I can spell.  And punctuate.  And capitalize  And all much better than you.  How's it feel to be stupider than a "dumbass?" Look MAW! The self professed "English major" just stepped on his dick! Silly wabbit..... Mods, clean-up, aisle 9!

See?? Now JM is a multiple IT certified, gun selling english major!! !

I LOVE these threads.

What'll he be next kids? I am betting on Constitutional scholar!

Quoted: All those who are somehow "offended" by the picture below, please be advised that you may simply pretend that George Washington is actually trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. pages.prodigy.net/bjsolow/pray.jpg

Now THAT's funny!

Quoted: Because it was religious "zealots" like George Washington who laid there lives down for pathetic angnostic assholes to have free speech in this nation that was founded by religious zealots.

That is patently unfair!!!

Obviously anyone who believes in "bullsh*t fairy stories" cannot POSSIBLY be superior in any way to our friend JavaMan!!

He is wiser than religious people. Didn't you get the memo?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: your a dumbass , and I'm done with this thread At least I can spell.  And punctuate.  And capitalize  And all much better than you.  How's it feel to be stupider than a "dumbass?" At least I can spell, punctuate, and capitalize much better than you.  How's it feel to be more stupid than a "dumbass"? Fixed for grammar and punctuation.

Fixed the fix.

Quoted: So if SCOTUS ruled that you have no right to keep and bear arms you would be first in line to hand them in to the "proper" authorities?

Well when the BATFE harassed gun buyers at the Richmond gunshow and threatened to prosecute a completely innocent citizen for "illegally" being an "arms dealer", JavaMan was leaping right to their defense.

archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=380592

archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=382102

So it seems that JavaMan doesn't know what the second ammendment means any more than he knows what the first ammendment means.....

OK, a couple of FACTS:

1.  The teacher argued that the school was a limited open forum.  
          Coincidently, I'm trying to help the local school board with a ballot initiative and we were told we could not post information supporting the ballot initiative at the school (even though it is on behalf of the school) BECAUSE if we do then this creates a limited open forum.
           A limited open forum allows people a place to express their first ammendment views.  Much like public streets, where a street preacher can preach if he wants, unions can picket, liberals can whine, etc. So, if this school district had posted e.g. a poster trying to get teachers to sign up for the teacher's union, this teacher could then argue that the district had created a limited open forum and could not limit freedom of speech based on its content (including religious).

2.  The establishment clause of the first ammendment prohibits CONGRESS from establishing a NATIONAL CHURCH, i.e. a Church of America.   It did not apply to State and Local government.  For Historical proof, look at the history of state churches.  
         While the American colonies always practiced more religious toleration than was seen in Europe, they still generally supported one branch of religion.  In Virginia, North and South Carolina and Georgia, the Anglican Church was the established State Church.  Under Governor Stone, Catholic Maryland passed the first Act Concerning Toleration, but still established a state church following the conversion of the governor's family to Anglicanism.  So by the beginning of the Revolution, 5 states had Anglicanism established as their state church.  In the North three colonies were congregational.  In addition while New York did not have a State Church, NYC and three adjacent counties had established the Church of England as their official church.
          Of course, from the Revolutionary War on, the five Anglican states began to abolish their State Churches since those churches were Anglican (i.e. The Church of England).  It didn't make sense to fight a war to free yourself politically from a country only to remain under their religious power.  Maryland and North Carolina got rid of theirs in 1776, Georgia in 1777, South Carolina changed from Anglican in 1778, but did not completely do away with establishment until 1790.  Thomas Jefferson finally passed his Bill to Establish Religous Freedom in 1785.
          State Churches in the North were slower to disappear.  New Hampshire kept hers until 1817, Connecticut until 1818 and Massachusetts until 1833.
           In an interesting insight into the mindset of the founding fathers attitude towards government powers and how we should read it, the establishment clause of the first ammendment was almost omitted entirely because many believed it was unnecessary.  They thought that since the Constitution did not give the government the power to establish a state church it was redundant to say they could not.

           Since the Founders allowed the States to keep their State Churches, they obviously only meant for the establishment clause to apply to the federal government.  Therefore, saying that the 1st ammendment prohibits a poster of Washington praying is as bad a historical error as saying the 2nd is about Duck Hunting.  It is NOT what the founders intended.


ETA  My source for this was A History of the Church: From Pentecost to Present by James B North.  Published by College Press out of Joplin, MO.  Pages 473-487.

Quoted: All those who are somehow "offended" by the picture below, please be advised that you may simply pretend that George Washington is actually trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. pages.prodigy.net/bjsolow/pray.jpg

Love that picture.  My in-laws have a signed copy hanging over the fireplace in their living room.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You are the intellectually challenged one in the discussion, fucking troll.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  Go back to DU with the rest of your kind. I'm not the one who believes in silly superstitions and magical beings.  And I don't approve of  these misguided people using tax money to try and shove their silly superstitions down innocent children's throats.  Obviously you disagree, and would rather behave like the Taliban using government to force your religious beliefs on others. So would you also agree with the schools that forbid teaching the Declaration of Independance because it says that "...All men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights....." and a mention of a creator, ie GOD, is impermissable?  Would you also support forbidding the teaching of the Constitution because it says "In the year of our lord" at the top? -K

Better change the currency and coinage -  "In God We Trust."  Or shouldn't I give them ideas?

Quoted: Quoted: At least I can spell.  And punctuate.  And capitalize  And all much better than you.  How's it feel to be stupider than a "dumbass?" You have apparently forgotten that proper grammar does not begin a sentence (three run-on sentences at that) with "and." Go back to grammar school if you are going to try to use grammar to make yourself look smarter than another person.   Oh, and your village called.  They need their back under the bridge.

Actually, it can.  

Quoted: Quoted: DUh is needing their idiot back.             Are you people so intellectually challenged and incapable of entering into an intelligent discussion that your only recourse is calling others names like "troll?"  How pathetic.

You got it Bill!


By the way you need to stop that praying.  You might offend yourself!

Oh! You are praying to yourself!

Quoted: Quoted: DUh is needing their idiot back.             Are you people so intellectually challenged and incapable of entering into an intelligent discussion that your only recourse is calling others names like "troll?"  How pathetic.

1. The picture is there as reference to George Washington.
2. No one is being forced to pray, decide on a religous belief, or anything else remotely religious.
3. It is just a picture.
4. If you still can't get it, see #1 above.
5. If you still object, and you are not a troll or a DU'er, maybe it is not too late to vacate your account here and get a membership at DU.  

You will be much happier as a sheep.

Quoted: Quoted: So you wish to rewrite history, saying it is utterly false that George Washington did "NOT" pray at Valley Forge?   I don't know if George Washington prayed at Valley Forge or not.  Regardless, it is NOT a historically significant event.  Even if he did pray, it still made no difference whatsoever in the outcome of the war. What we have in this case is an attempt by a rabidly pro-religion teacher tyiyng to use an insignificant event for one reason only, and that is to push a religious agenda onto the students in a public school.  And that's against the law.

I don't know if you realized it or not, but everyone has some type of an agenda in schools today. Whether it be an atheist agenda, maxist, utopian, etc... and no one seems to have a problem or say anything about these. However, if someone trys to promote any type of morality, or Christian behavior in schools, they are shunned. I think that when people see any type of religion in school (primarily Christianity) they are only insulted because they are reminded of their own wrongdoings and way of life. If you have a problem with people pushing religious agendas in school, please be fair and try to argue against all of the other agendas that are being pushed down the throats of children.

THIS IS TOTAL GOAT BALLZ

Quoted: OK, a couple of FACTS: 1.  The teacher argued that the school was a limited open forum.             Coincidently, I'm trying to help the local school board with a ballot initiative and we were told we could not post information supporting the ballot initiative at the school (even though it is on behalf of the school) BECAUSE if we do then this creates a limited open forum.            A limited open forum allows people a place to express their first ammendment views.  Much like public streets, where a street preacher can preach if he wants, unions can picket, liberals can whine, etc. So, if this school district had posted e.g. a poster trying to get teachers to sign up for the teacher's union, this teacher could then argue that the district had created a limited open forum and could not limit freedom of speech based on its content (including religious). 2.  The establishment clause of the first ammendment prohibits CONGRESS from establishing a NATIONAL CHURCH, i.e. a Church of America.   It did not apply to State and Local government.  For Historical proof, look at the history of state churches.            While the American colonies always practiced more religious toleration than was seen in Europe, they still generally supported one branch of religion.  In Virginia, North and South Carolina and Georgia, the Anglican Church was the established State Church.  Under Governor Stone, Catholic Maryland passed the first Act Concerning Toleration, but still established a state church following the conversion of the governor's family to Anglicanism.  So by the beginning of the Revolution, 5 states had Anglicanism established as their state church.  In the North three colonies were congregational.  In addition while New York did not have a State Church, NYC and three adjacent counties had established the Church of England as their official church.           Of course, from the Revolutionary War on, the five Anglican states began to abolish their State Churches since those churches were Anglican (i.e. The Church of England).  It didn't make sense to fight a war to free yourself politically from a country only to remain under their religious power.  Maryland and North Carolina got rid of theirs in 1776, Georgia in 1777, South Carolina changed from Anglican in 1778, but did not completely do away with establishment until 1790.  Thomas Jefferson finally passed his Bill to Establish Religous Freedom in 1785.           State Churches in the North were slower to disappear.  New Hampshire kept hers until 1817, Connecticut until 1818 and Massachusetts until 1833.            In an interesting insight into the mindset of the founding fathers attitude towards government powers and how we should read it, the establishment clause of the first ammendment was almost omitted entirely because many believed it was unnecessary.  They thought that since the Constitution did not give the government the power to establish a state church it was redundant to say they could not.            Since the Founders allowed the States to keep their State Churches, they obviously only meant for the establishment clause to apply to the federal government.  Therefore, saying that the 1st ammendment prohibits a poster of Washington praying is as bad a historical error as saying the 2nd is about Duck Hunting.  It is NOT what the founders intended. ETA  My source for this was A History of the Church: From Pentecost to Present by James B North.  Published by College Press out of Joplin, MO.  Pages 473-487.

wtf are you thinking bringing facts into this thread. We are trying to live in a fairy tale world here, facts are of no use to us!

Quoted: wtf are you thinking bringing facts into this thread. We are trying to live in a fairy tale world here, facts are of no use to us!

I know it's a bad (almost unforgivable) habit.  I'm trying to quit, but if I go through a day without considering at least 1 or 2 facts I get the DT's.

My Doc says it's a genetic predisposition, but my shrink says I'm a product of my environment.

Quoted: Quoted: You are the intellectually challenged one in the discussion, fucking troll.  You have no idea what you are talking about.  Go back to DU with the rest of your kind. I'm not the one who believes in silly superstitions and magical beings.  And I don't approve of  these misguided people using tax money to try and shove their silly superstitions down innocent children's throats.  Obviously you disagree, and would rather behave like the Taliban using government to force your religious beliefs on others.

We had that painting hanging in our living room when I was a kid. I always liked it, and I'm not a religous person. Our print was signed by the painter.