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Posted: 2/27/2006 9:18:19 PM EDT
Damn What a sad situation for all involved.



www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/27/driving.lesson.ap/index.html

PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A father whose driving lesson with his underage daughter ended in a woman's death was sentenced Monday to three years' probation.

Richard Miller was giving his 15-year-old daughter, who wasn't old enough to have a learner's permit, a weekend lesson in an empty parking lot last April when she sped across a street, jumped a curb and landed on a lawn where Sarah McGinley was playing with her 1-year-old daughter.

McGinley, 18, tossed the infant to safety moments before she was struck and killed in front of her fiance's home.

Prosecutors said Miller's daughter hit the gas pedal instead of the brake. Miller said he tried unsuccessfully to push the brake pedal with his hands as the car surged toward McGinley.

Miller, 47, pleaded guilty last month to involuntary manslaughter. He could have gotten a year in prison.

His daughter pleaded guilty in juvenile court in June to causing the accident and was sentenced to 200 hours of community service.

Miller apologized Monday to about a dozen members of the victim's family in court.

"Every hour I mourn for your daughter," he said. "I am terribly sorry for the tragic loss of Sarah. Please know that you are in my prayers constantly."

The judge also ordered Miller to pay $7,500 to cover funeral costs, and he must pay an amount to be determined for the mother's tombstone. A civil case also is pending.

In keeping Miller out of prison, Judge Benjamin Lerner cited his "exemplary life," his lack of a criminal record and his guilty plea.

The victim's family, including her mother, grandmother and 19-year-old fiance, described a young woman who adored her baby daughter and whose caring nature led her to attend nursing school.

"She was a wonderful young woman," said her mother, Betty McGinley, who thought the sentence should have been harsher.

She said the baby, Victoria, still asks for her mother.

"Do you know what it's like to hear a 22-month-old baby tell her baby doll that her mother left?" McGinley said.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:21:18 PM EDT
Damn. That sucks. Especially for the 1 year old who will never really know her own mother.

Empty industrial parks on the weekends are probably the best place to teach someone to drive.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:39:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Damn. That sucks. Especially for the 1 year old who will never really know her own mother.

Empty industrial parks on the weekends are probably the best place to teach someone to drive.



+1

There's no guilty here, the Dad was doing what thousands of us have done to teach our children how to drive away from traffic. Just a sad, tragic accident.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:53:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 9:54:30 PM EDT by builttoughf250]
i dont know why he reached for the brake with his hands... turning the key or jamming the thing in nuetral may have been a better attempt but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time. its a shame. and the dad wasnt doing anything wrong in my book... i learned how to drive 9 years ago when i was only 14 on a backroad ( way way up north ) with my mom riding shotgun. this just happens to be a freak accident...
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:56:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:58:45 AM EDT
Man...you hear about stuff like this and then the next day there's some rapist getting off with no punishment at all.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:08:21 AM EDT
Thats just terrible, the whole way around. I learned to drive around 11 or so, we lived way out in the country so it wasnt a big deal. Learned on a stick shift. By 13 I was driving grain trucks.

Just a sad accident.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:21:30 AM EDT
this sucks... I learned ot drive at 12, was driving farm roads from then on,


this was just a freak accident
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:23:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Damn. That sucks. Especially for the 1 year old who will never really know her own mother.

Empty industrial parks on the weekends are probably the best place to teach someone to drive.



+1

There's no guilty here, the Dad was doing what thousands of us have done to teach our children how to drive away from traffic. Just a sad, tragic accident.




Totally agreed on all...
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:25:40 AM EDT
sux for everyone involved.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:33:15 AM EDT
Oh...man that really sucks...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:07:40 AM EDT



"She was a wonderful young woman," said her mother, Betty McGinley, who thought the sentence should have been harsher.



Harsher? So that more peoples' lives are destroyed? I could understand if it was INTENTIONAL but it wasn't. If it were me, with my daughter dead... I'd be angry but the fact that he owned up to it and there was no malice involved...
I would understand. That's life. Shit happens... if he was genuinely as upset as they say... he's punishing himself enough... I don't need to see him in jail.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:08:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
this sucks... I learned ot drive at 12, was driving farm roads from then on,


this was just a freak accident


I hear you.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:11:45 AM EDT
Sad deal all the way around.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:17:10 AM EDT
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:22:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time.


Really? her house was the wrong place? Playing with her kid in her own fucking yard was the wrong place to be? How do you figure? What would be the right time and the right place to play with your toddler then?

Personally I think she was in the right place at the right time and some asshole killed her. Some asshole who was actually in the wrong place at the wrong time ie underage and in the driver's seat, but then again I tend to blame the asshole responsible, not the victim.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:23:47 AM EDT
Thats is just sad.


But on the other hand when I was little we use to teach ourselves how to drive while the parents were at work.We took my friends dads 66 Mustang out and hauled ass all around town.Lucky for us we didnt hurt anyone.Kids cant do that these days...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:23:58 AM EDT
Shit happens.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:27:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Where does the story say that they were teaching in a public area?

Are you going to teach your children to drive on private property only?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:28:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time.


Really? her house was the wrong place? Playing with her kid in her own fucking yard was the wrong place to be? How do you figure? What would be the right time and the right place to play with your toddler then?

Personally I think she was in the right place at the right time and some asshole killed her. Some asshole who was actually in the wrong place at the wrong time ie underage and in the driver's seat, but then again I tend to blame the asshole responsible, not the victim.



You are a vengeful and bitter person.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:28:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 9:36:09 AM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Shit happens.




I think that most who live in 'suburbia' don't have the luctury as some who live in the country or who own open, flat land to teach a youngster how to drive. Age...15 vs 15 1/2....yes, not legal, but I've seen 18 year olds who act like 8 year olds... nothing is cut and dry. At least the parent tried to use an area where there would be no people. How many of us can think of shutting the car off in a split second in an emergency? Has to be second nature.... Or maybe he thought turning it off, there would be no steering (might turn it to the lock position)..... don't know, wasn't there.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:30:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time.


Really? her house was the wrong place? Playing with her kid in her own fucking yard was the wrong place to be? How do you figure? What would be the right time and the right place to play with your toddler then?

Personally I think she was in the right place at the right time and some asshole killed her. Some asshole who was actually in the wrong place at the wrong time ie underage and in the driver's seat, but then again I tend to blame the asshole responsible, not the victim.



You are a vengeful and bitter person.



Because I don't believe in blaming victims? How do you figure?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:31:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Your crazy- He took her to a parking lot (like my parents did) and tried to start giving her lessons- A great idea as the additional training will only make her a better driver. The intent was to make her safer and it all went tragically wrong when she flipped out and stabbed the gas pedal. Dad probably freaked when little Julie took off on her Fall Guy stunt drive and forgot to shift the car into netrual or grab the E brake (if it was in between the seats). Its terrible that someone got killed but trying to sending someone and their daughter to jail for an accident without any intent is worse than the accident. I think the penalties incurred are unbelievable. Civil, yeah you killed someone. You need to take care of the baby and the family for the loss. Thats why I pay $220/mo for insurance. My remorse and guilt would be more punishment then jailtime if I did that.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:36:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:
Where does the story say that they were teaching in a public area?



Parking lots are generally public "highways" including private parking lots that the public has access to like a shopping center.


Originally Posted By Torf:
Are you going to teach your children to drive on private property only?



If she was not old enough to legally drive then YES.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:39:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time.


Really? her house was the wrong place? Playing with her kid in her own fucking yard was the wrong place to be? How do you figure? What would be the right time and the right place to play with your toddler then?

Personally I think she was in the right place at the right time and some asshole killed her. Some asshole who was actually in the wrong place at the wrong time ie underage and in the driver's seat, but then again I tend to blame the asshole responsible, not the victim.



You are a vengeful and bitter person.



Because I don't believe in blaming victims? How do you figure?



Because there is no point to your harsh words, except to make yourself feel/look better.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:41:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Your crazy- He took her to a parking lot (like my parents did) and tried to start giving her lessons- A great idea as the additional training will only make her a better driver.



You seem to forget she was too young to get a permit to drive. If he had bothered to wait until she was 16 and she had a permit he would not have been criminally liable.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:42:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Torf:
Where does the story say that they were teaching in a public area?



Parking lots are generally public "highways" including private parking lots that the public has access to like a shopping center.


Originally Posted By Torf:
Are you going to teach your children to drive on private property only?



If she was not old enough to legally drive then YES.



Always have to nail someone to the wall don't we? Get over yourself.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:42:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Here in AZ you can get your learner's permit at like 15 years and 7 months. Do you think a few months more of inexperience would have made a difference?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:44:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Your crazy- He took her to a parking lot (like my parents did) and tried to start giving her lessons- A great idea as the additional training will only make her a better driver.



You seem to forget she was too young to get a permit to drive. If he had bothered to wait until she was 16 and she had a permit he would not have been criminally liable.



There we have it. Had this happened to a 16 year old driver, you would instead want to nail HER to the wall for something that was just plain accidental.

"SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED! SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL!" is our new national motto.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:45:26 AM EDT
How terrible, but I agree that there is no guilt to be found here. It was a freak occurance. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Very sad.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:49:09 AM EDT
From another article. In my state a school parking lot is a "public highway" and not private property. All state and local traffic laws apply.

"According to earlier court testimony, Miller and his daughter, Megan, were in the family's 1999 Mercury Grand Marquis about 2:15 p.m. April 17 when he suggested she get behind the wheel for a driving lesson in the Abraham Lincoln High School parking lot.

Megan apparently confused the accelerator and brake, and, as her father got down on the floor to try to press the brake by hand, the car crashed through the school fence, crossed Ryan Avenue, and went onto a front lawn."
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:51:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Your crazy- He took her to a parking lot (like my parents did) and tried to start giving her lessons- A great idea as the additional training will only make her a better driver.



You seem to forget she was too young to get a permit to drive. If he had bothered to wait until she was 16 and she had a permit he would not have been criminally liable.



There we have it. Had this happened to a 16 year old driver, you would instead want to nail HER to the wall for something that was just plain accidental.

"SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED! SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL!" is our new national motto.



I never said anyone should be nailed to the wall or go to jail. Please take a reading comprehension course.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:52:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
but... shit happens and unfortunatly that chick was in the wrong place, wrong time.


Really? her house was the wrong place? Playing with her kid in her own fucking yard was the wrong place to be? How do you figure? What would be the right time and the right place to play with your toddler then?

Personally I think she was in the right place at the right time and some asshole killed her. Some asshole who was actually in the wrong place at the wrong time ie underage and in the driver's seat, but then again I tend to blame the asshole responsible, not the victim.



Take a few deep breaths. In through the nose, out through the mouth. No one is saying that she doesn't have the right to be in her front yard, all he's saying is that at the moment she was standing where she was standing she was in the wrong place.

If it hadn't been this girl in a car then maybe it would have been a bus going down the road or an bar of soap in the bath tub. This was a freak accident nothing more, nothing less. No one is guaranteed their next breath. You are never safe at any moment. It's useless and counterproductive to try and draw a pound of flesh everytime someone dies. People die because life is fragile. Sometimes your number just comes up.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:59:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Take a few deep breaths. In through the nose, out through the mouth. No one is saying that she doesn't have the right to be in her front yard, all he's saying is that at the moment she was standing where she was standing she was in the wrong place.



Saying she was in the wrong place at the wrong time implies that she is at fault, that she is "in the wrong". She wasn't. People need to place blame where it belongs. That little girl was in the right place at the right time, and she got waxed by someone who actually was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Words have meaning.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:00:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:03:32 AM EDT by ScienceDork]
The thing that doesn't sit well with me in this story is, if you've ever seen the intersection this happened at, its HUGE! My brother lives right down the street so I pass that intersection everytime I'm in town. Trust me when I saw it's abnormally wide.

The house where the mother was at was across the street, but it must have taken a good 5 or 10 seconds to cross the street, let alone get up the lawn to where the mom was. There was a lot more that the father teaching his daughter to drive could have done to prevent this and there was plenty of time to do it in, compared to how much time they would have had 40 ft down the road.

Also, if I remember correctly, a couple of months ago, the parents of the girl killed said they didn't want harsh sentences for them because everyone's already suffered enough. Now, they're saying it's not harsh enough. I understand it's approaching the one year mark so it's going to get tough for awhile, but that's a major attitude change from before. Maybe I'm just remembering that part wrong, but I don't think so.

Either way, it's a horrible situation for all involved.

ETA: In PA, at least in Philly, you can't get your permit until you turn 16. Even then, you have to take 50 hours of driving school and wait 6 months after getting your permit to even qualify to take the road test.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:06:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Take a few deep breaths. In through the nose, out through the mouth. No one is saying that she doesn't have the right to be in her front yard, all he's saying is that at the moment she was standing where she was standing she was in the wrong place.



Saying she was in the wrong place at the wrong time implies that she is at fault, that she is "in the wrong". She wasn't. People need to place blame where it belongs. That little girl was in the right place at the right time, and she got waxed by someone who actually was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Words have meaning.



What BS. It implies the complete opposite. Accidents happen all the time and sometimes people are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It is an idiom. Do you understand what that means?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:13:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ScienceDork:
The thing that doesn't sit well with me in this story is, if you've ever seen the intersection this happened at, its HUGE! My brother lives right down the street so I pass that intersection everytime I'm in town. Trust me when I saw it's abnormally wide.

The house where the mother was at was across the street, but it must have taken a good 5 or 10 seconds to cross the street, let alone get up the lawn to where the mom was. There was a lot more that the father teaching his daughter to drive could have done to prevent this and there was plenty of time to do it in, compared to how much time they would have had 40 ft down the road.



Don't forget that the girl was probably FLOORING the gas to try to get the car to stop. Crossing the street in a powerful car at full throttle would take a couple seconds or less from a standstill.



Also, if I remember correctly, a couple of months ago, the parents of the girl killed said they didn't want harsh sentences for them because everyone's already suffered enough. Now, they're saying it's not harsh enough. I understand it's approaching the one year mark so it's going to get tough for awhile, but that's a major attitude change from before. Maybe I'm just remembering that part wrong, but I don't think so.

Either way, it's a horrible situation for all involved.




I suspect that the family is vengeful, and are looking for their pound of flesh as stated by another poster.



ETA: In PA, at least in Philly, you can't get your permit until you turn 16. Even then, you have to take 50 hours of driving school and wait 6 months after getting your permit to even qualify to take the road test.



Don't forget that you can drive all you want under parental supervision during that 6 months up until you take the road test to get the final license. Regardless there is always the first time behind the wheel. Most people don't have large areas of private land to drive on as kids.

After learning the "rules of the road" most teens are placed into a car where split second decisions are necessary and potentially fatal. Practicing the most basic fundamentals of driving while away from traffic is quite responsible.

I bet some of you even know that older and mature drivers have accidentally struck and killed people in their yards before.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:16:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.



Your crazy- He took her to a parking lot (like my parents did) and tried to start giving her lessons- A great idea as the additional training will only make her a better driver.



You seem to forget she was too young to get a permit to drive. If he had bothered to wait until she was 16 and she had a permit he would not have been criminally liable.



There we have it. Had this happened to a 16 year old driver, you would instead want to nail HER to the wall for something that was just plain accidental.

"SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED! SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO JAIL!" is our new national motto.



I never said anyone should be nailed to the wall or go to jail. Please take a reading comprehension course.



You started out by placing blame, hurling curses and being generally unhinged. Pardon me if I misunderstood your position on the punishment. In my opinion the guy and girl were practically nailed to the wall already and it isn't over for them yet.

We'll see how much money this whole ACCIDENT costs them.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:17:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

What BS. It implies the complete opposite.

Bullshit. It means what the words say. You are saying the woman was in the wrong place. She was at home. How is her home the wrong place for her to be?

You are saying she was there at the wrong time. Bullshit. She was there at the right time. It is her damned house. How was it that she was in her house at the wrong time? When I go home it is the right time for me to be there, because it is where I live.


Accidents happen all the time and sometimes people are in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Oswald was in the wrong place at the wrong time, JFK wasn't. Colin Fergusun was in the wrong place at the wrong time, the LI commutter weren't. The hijackers on 9/11 were in the wrong place at the wrong time, their victims were not.


It is an idiom. Do you understand what that means?


Sure do. It is a repeated bit of phrase that not too bright people repeat without thought. One of my favorites is "I could care less." If you ask the person why do they care at all, normally you get a bovine stare. They say it without thinking about what thyey are saying. What they mean is they COULDN"T care less, but due to idiomatic regurgitation coupled with an inability to think, they say the opposite. Get it?

Quit blaming the victim, she didn't do anything wrong.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:42:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:
You started out by placing blame, hurling curses and being generally unhinged. Pardon me if I misunderstood your position on the punishment. In my opinion the guy and girl were practically nailed to the wall already and it isn't over for them yet.




Huh? You obviously have me confused with someone else.

The following are all my responses in this thread:

“It's unfortunate but he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area.”

“Parking lots are generally public "highways" including private parking lots that the public has access to like a shopping center.”

“If she was not old enough to legally drive then YES.”

“You seem to forget she was too young to get a permit to drive. If he had bothered to wait until she was 16 and she had a permit he would not have been criminally liable.”

“In my state a school parking lot is a "public highway" and not private property. All state and local traffic laws apply.”

“I never said anyone should be nailed to the wall or go to jail. Please take a reading comprehension course.”

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:17:49 PM EDT



“In my state a school parking lot is a "public highway" and not private property. All state and local traffic laws apply.”



Glad I'm not a school age child that lives in your state.



“I never said anyone should be nailed to the wall or go to jail. Please take a reading comprehension course.”



Thats what you implied in your first post, you sound like a defense lawyer right now.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:34:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:


“In my state a school parking lot is a "public highway" and not private property. All state and local traffic laws apply.”



Glad I'm not a school age child that lives in your state.



“I never said anyone should be nailed to the wall or go to jail. Please take a reading comprehension course.”



Thats what you implied in your first post, you sound like a defense lawyer right now.




Are you trying to tell me you don't have to be licensed, insured and registered as well as obey all traffic regulations in a school parking lot in TX?

I implied nothing. I stated "he should not have been teaching his underage daughter to drive in a public area."
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