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Posted: 2/27/2006 1:02:05 PM EDT
I have a pain in the right joint of my jaw, but not the left. I've had it for 2 days. It is NOT a tooth pain, I can clearly feel pain in the jaw joint (plus I've already had my wisdom teeth taken out). It aches slightly most of the time but is painful when I bite down a certain way or open my jaw to yawn. I have a slight overbite, and when I set my teeth and bite, it hurts. However when I touch my incisors to one another and bite, it does not hurt at all.

Should I go to the doctor, or just chew pain killers until it goes away? Is 2 days of waiting long enough?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:03:19 PM EDT
You are going to die, send me your guns and prepare your funeral.

j/k... you probably have TMJ. go see your dentist.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:54:25 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:57:33 PM EDT
Sounds like TMJ (Temporo Mandibular Joint) Disease. Get it checked out...could be that you are grinding your teeth at night too.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:00:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
Sounds like TMJ (Temporo Mandibular Joint) Disease. Get it checked out...could be that you are grinding your teeth at night too.



+1
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:03:39 PM EDT
sounds to me like you have AIDS with a touch wisdom tooth pain.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:05:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
Sounds like TMJ (Temporo Mandibular Joint) Disease. Get it checked out...could be that you are grinding your teeth at night too.



That, or like me, you just sleep with a fist in your jaw every once in a while.

I do more damage to myself sleeping than I ever could awake.


GM
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:07:15 PM EDT
Sinus
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:09:44 PM EDT
www.atlantadentist.com/TMJ_symptom.html

Doesn't really sound like TMJ..see what you think.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:22:17 PM EDT
I do grind my teeth at night. My canines are quite flat. I don't have any visible asymmetry and I have no speech abnormalities, but there are alot of things on that webpate which cause TMJ. I can only connect one or two, in a six-degrees-of-separation, psychic reading kind of way. "Does anyone in this room have a name that starts with 'D?' Yes, I'm seeing you have some trouble in your life..."

I don't wanna go to the dentist, I have no health or dental insurance right now. =(

Is a mouth guard worn at night enough to take care of this problem?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:25:10 PM EDT
I work as a Dental Hygienist for a Periodontist who also specializes in Oral-Facial Pain and TMJ disorders. What did you do that triggered the pain? Do you clench or grind your teeth, especially at night when you sleep? Does pressing on your face anywhere bring the pain on? It may be a muscle spasm in which case moist heat (hot water bottle and damp wash cloth) may help to relieve the discomfort in your jaw. Does your joint click or pop when you open? This type of problem is difficult to diagnosis over the internet. Your best bet is to find someone who is board certified in Oral-Facial Pain management. You may be able to find someone in your area by checking out the Academy of Oral-Facial Pain website www.aaop.org/
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:30:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:
I do grind my teeth at night. My canines are quite flat. I don't have any visible asymmetry and I have no speech abnormalities, but there are alot of things on that webpate which cause TMJ. I can only connect one or two, in a six-degrees-of-separation, psychic reading kind of way. "Does anyone in this room have a name that starts with 'D?' Yes, I'm seeing you have some trouble in your life..."

I don't wanna go to the dentist, I have no health or dental insurance right now. =(

Is a mouth guard worn at night enough to take care of this problem?



yes a properly fitting bite guard is one part of the overall solution, however, most general dentist do not have the first clue about treating TMJ disorders. Medication, stress management (seeing a psychologist), and Physical therapy are the other parts to the solution if indeed you have an actual TMJ disorder. While the intial treatment can be some what expensive, treating the minor injury now will save you a lot of time, money, and pain in the long run.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:34:54 PM EDT
Yeah, TMJ probably.

Ice and anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen or aleve might help.


AVOID: the urge to work and/or pop your jaw thinking you can work it out. THAT WILL ONLY MAKE IT WORSE. Give it a break for a while.

I would do what I could to avoid surgery if you can.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:54:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 4:56:07 PM EDT by UberPhLuBB]

Originally Posted By Remmy023:
I work as a Dental Hygienist for a Periodontist who also specializes in Oral-Facial Pain and TMJ disorders. What did you do that triggered the pain? Do you clench or grind your teeth, especially at night when you sleep? Does pressing on your face anywhere bring the pain on? It may be a muscle spasm in which case moist heat (hot water bottle and damp wash cloth) may help to relieve the discomfort in your jaw. Does your joint click or pop when you open? This type of problem is difficult to diagnosis over the internet. Your best bet is to find someone who is board certified in Oral-Facial Pain management. You may be able to find someone in your area by checking out the Academy of Oral-Facial Pain website www.aaop.org/



I didn't do anything to trigger it, I just woke up three mornings ago and my right jaw joint hurt. I very very rarely catch myself doing it, but I do grind my teeth at night. When I've caught myself, I wasn't grinding hard, just a gentle mastication, front to back to front, like a cow chews cud. No cheek prodding brings any pain. Only biting and stretching, and even a tiny bit of side to side movement when my teeth are set hurts.

This ruined any chances of me affording local medical help for awhile. I wouldn't have asked on the internets if I could go to a medical professional. I'm looking for bubba solutions that works.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:00:19 PM EDT
do you have access to a woman's ice skate?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:03:15 PM EDT
you could have root decay. Get it checked out before you end up having a root canal that cannot be numbed! Those hurt!
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:05:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
you could have root decay. Get it checked out before you end up having a root canal that cannot be numbed! Those hurt!



It's the jaw joint, I can feel it. No way it's the teeth, I haven't had a tooth problem since I was 12.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:21:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:
I didn't do anything to trigger it, I just woke up three mornings ago and my right jaw joint hurt. I very very rarely catch myself doing it, but I do grind my teeth at night. When I've caught myself, I wasn't grinding hard, just a gentle mastication, front to back to front, like a cow chews cud. No cheek prodding brings any pain. Only biting and stretching, and even a tiny bit of side to side movement when my teeth are set hurts.


Sounds like mine, except mine's on the left. It's been happening ever since a filling was replaced about ten years ago. The nightguard (anti-tooth-grinding thingie) seemed to help for some reason.


Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:
This ruined any chances of me affording local medical help for awhile. I wouldn't have asked on the internets if I could go to a medical professional. I'm looking for bubba solutions that works.
home.earthlink.net/~uberphlubb/1911/223.jpg


The only "bubba solution" that would come close is the ice skate thingie treatment, and it is ineffective or worse than useless in 97% of cases. The other 3% die of complications incident to the ice skate thingie treatment.

In other words, if you aren't fortunate enough to discover in the next few days that this was a one-time problem, you should probably seek professional help.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:32:39 PM EDT
we are all keeping the bubba solution from you cause we would rather see you suffer.
while toys are fun, your health is a bit more important, if your all crippled up how are you going to enjoy your toys. if it is an acute aggravation moist heat on the muscles, ice on the joint, and take an anti-inflammatory like alieve or advil. oh, and by the way anytime your teeth are touching, that is clenching. the only exception is eating. only alligators rest with their teeth touching.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:11:59 AM EDT
Alright. I've got a Doctor's Night Guard and I'll start using it tonight. I didn't have any Alieve, so I got some, that helped with the lingering ache. I'll give it another 5 days to die down before I bite the bullet (har har) and pay to see a dentist. Or doctor. Or whatever.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:50:15 AM EDT
Alright, it could be several things.

Do you have clicking or grinding when you open your jaw? Does it pop? Or does it ever lock open? That would be a sign of degeneration of the cartilage in the disc, which is the "worst case scenario."

If you're a bruxer (clenching and grinding), it could very well be muscle soreness. And that's honestly what it sounds like, assuming the absence of a crackling, grinding or popping when you move your jaw. Have you been stressed about anything recently? I got horrible pain right around the time of the national boards, and it was related. A nightguard is a good solution. And not particularly expensive. Is there a dental school that is accessible to you? A "shade tree" solution would be to get a "boil and bit" mouthguard and wear it for a few nights to see if it helps. Just make sure it fits well enough that you're not going to choke on it.

You mention that your occlusion is "flat." So that tells me that you have a decreased vertical dimension of occlusion. Which is another thing that could contribute to the muscle soreness and the biteguard would help relieve some of that.

That said, it could be referred pain from one of your teeth or a sinus infection. The nerves that supplay the palate and your sinuses are branched from the same sensory nerve that innervates the TMJ.

Currently the clinical studies are supporting a comprehensive approach to TMD, that includes physical therapy. And if it is muscle soreness, stretching the jaw by moving it slowly to either side, and protruding will help. That and a Benzodiazepene if it's related to stress.

For pain, take 600 to 800mg of Ibuprofen every six hours on the hour. It'll help you to establish a concentration of the medication that will do a better job of knocking down pain that just taking it prn.

Good luck, and don't be affraid to go see the dentist. It's better to take care of it now, before it gets any worse.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:56:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 12:58:28 PM EDT by UberPhLuBB]
No audible clicking or grinding in the joint, but when I open my jaw very wide, I can feel a slight pop. It's never locked open but a couple of years ago I had trouble eating for a day or two because my jaw would catch a little. Not enough to keep me from closing it, but the sensation was enough to make me start, then open my jaw back up for a moment. It was in both sides though, and my dentist told me it was because of my slight overbite, that the jaw joint had two balls on each side and the wrong ball was fitting into my skull. Since then, I've not had any problems with my jaw until this pain now.

If it's muscle soreness, would it last this long? It's been, what, 4 days total? It still hurt a this morning, until I took an Alieve. It stinks trying to eat, I have to keep that side of my jaw from closing all the way or it hurts, and I suspect torquing my jaw by favoring the left like that is probably making it worse. I'm not stressed out at all.

My canines aren't really "flat," in the sense that their surfaces are not parallel to the floor. But they are shaped to fit the opposing teeth, and the grinding pattern seems to be side to side because in order to make the ground surfaces meet, I need to move my jaw side to side about 1/5". But I've never caught myself grinding anywhere near that far, and it feels wierd to even try moving my jaw that far out of line (and always has, for as long as I've noticed the ground teeth, well before this pain and the slight "pop" in my jaw 2 years ago).

I'm not afraid of the dentist at all. I just can't afford it right now, and I'm pretty sure he's not going to do or suggest anything I couldn't already do, aside from surgery. I've got the night guard (which I boiled and bit to fit my teeth, though my upper inside gums got swollen over night, presumably from saliva being held against them for so long).

Edit: Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:51:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 4:59:30 PM EDT by wolffie]
The pop when you open your mouth really wide is just the head of your mandibular condyle sliding over the rim of the articluar disk in your TMJ. No big deal.

If your canines don't touch normally than you are closing in posterior guidance. It happens, especially if you have a class I bite (overbite).

If your gums are getting irritated from sleeping with the boil and bit night guard trim the edges of it back a little so that it doesn't put pressure on your gums. It doesn't have to cover everything, just fit between your upper and lower teeth.

If it is muscle soreness, it should go away in a week or so. Keep trying with the bite guard and see what it does. If it's bursitis in the joint capsule, it should resolve on it's own as well.

Don't have surgury. There is very little that surgury can do for TMD and in your case it would likely make things worse. I would hope that no DDS would recommend that approach for anything other than degeneration of the joint capsule.

I understand not having the money. I haven't been to the dentist in four years. I've been doing my own cleanings in front of a mirror, and fortunately I haven't had a cavity.

FWIW, If you were in local, I'd be happy to make a night guard for you, at no cost. The materials aren't expensive, it's not hard to do, it just takes time. I'd also be happy to check and make sure that you didn't have in infections that could be causeing it.

Let us know how it comes out.


ETA: The fact that it "just started hurting one morning" suggests that you may have slept on the side of your face with a lot of pressure on your chin. Think of it like a sprain of the joint.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:08:23 PM EDT
I've got jaw joint problems too.


Shitloads of popping and clicking when I open my mouth.

If I talk too much during the day the jaw muscle will be very sore and tighten up to where it's tough to open.

I've got an underbite where the farthest back I can get my bottom teeth is to the point where the front teeth on the bottom exactly match up with the front teeth on the top ... can't get my bottom teeth behind the front ones.

It bugs be a lot, but isn't painful enough that I'd do surgery for it.

I take ibuprofin when it gets bad enough that it prevents me from eating. Other than that, I just live with it.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:10:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
do you have access to a woman's ice skate?



Wilson!!!!!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:25:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
I've got jaw joint problems too.


Shitloads of popping and clicking when I open my mouth.

If I talk too much during the day the jaw muscle will be very sore and tighten up to where it's tough to open.

I've got an underbite where the farthest back I can get my bottom teeth is to the point where the front teeth on the bottom exactly match up with the front teeth on the top ... can't get my bottom teeth behind the front ones.

It bugs be a lot, but isn't painful enough that I'd do surgery for it.

I take ibuprofin when it gets bad enough that it prevents me from eating. Other than that, I just live with it.




An underbite, or Class III occlusion has a very high assosciation with TMD. I'm in the same boat. It's a result of the stress involved in retruding the jaw when you bring your teeth together trying to make them fit.. You'd be a very good candidate for a little physical therapy. Orthodontics and possibly orthognathic surgury could help your situation, but if it doesn't bother that much don't worry about it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:45:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolffie:
The pop when you open your mouth really wide is just the head of your mandibular condyle sliding over the rim of the articluar disk in your TMJ. No big deal.

If your canines don't touch normally than you are closing in posterior guidance. It happens, especially if you have a class I bite (overbite).

If your gums are getting irritated from sleeping with the boil and bit night guard trim the edges of it back a little so that it doesn't put pressure on your gums. It doesn't have to cover everything, just fit between your upper and lower teeth.

If it is muscle soreness, it should go away in a week or so. Keep trying with the bite guard and see what it does. If it's bursitis in the joint capsule, it should resolve on it's own as well.

Don't have surgury. There is very little that surgury can do for TMD and in your case it would likely make things worse. I would hope that no DDS would recommend that approach for anything other than degeneration of the joint capsule.

I understand not having the money. I haven't been to the dentist in four years. I've been doing my own cleanings in front of a mirror, and fortunately I haven't had a cavity.

FWIW, If you were in local, I'd be happy to make a night guard for you, at no cost. The materials aren't expensive, it's not hard to do, it just takes time. I'd also be happy to check and make sure that you didn't have in infections that could be causeing it.

Let us know how it comes out.


ETA: The fact that it "just started hurting one morning" suggests that you may have slept on the side of your face with a lot of pressure on your chin. Think of it like a sprain of the joint.



Thank you very much for your advice! If you were local I'd give you a few boxes of ammo for the help.

Unless it gets worse, I'll post again in a week. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:09:42 PM EDT
Well, it didn't get worse. Sort of.

On the 3rd, the day after my last post, my jaw was back to 100%. No pain whatsoever, not with any kind of movement. But that night, I forgot to put in my night guard. Absolutely slipped my mind. The next day it hurt again, and I've been wearing the night guard every night since. It still hurts, though much less than day 1, and the day after I forgot the night guard.

So I guess I'll just get used to wearing this damn spit collector forever. I wouldn't mind if it didn't make my upper inside gums swell every single night. No amount of trimming, bending, melting or bite pattern change has fixed that. After an entire day with swollen gums, the swelling is gone by the time I go to sleep again, only to reappear the next morning. I only get about an hour a day without swollen gums, before I fall asleep.

Sucks to be me.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:19:23 PM EDT


Originally Posted By wolffie:
The pop when you open your mouth really wide is just the head of your mandibular condyle sliding over the rim of the articluar disk in your TMJ. No big deal.



I totally disagree with that.
It is a big deal. Learn not to do that or your problem will become worse.




Don't have surgury. There is very little that surgury can do for TMD and in your case it would likely make things worse. I would hope that no DDS would recommend that approach for anything other than degeneration of the joint capsule.


I do largely agree with that. Avoid if at all possible.


Your jaw though. Good luck.

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