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Posted: 2/27/2006 8:44:22 AM EDT
Okay, a guy at work ( the same one that doesnt see a need for civvies and black rifles) and I were discussing building entry. I only have a couple classes long ago as an AF SP, in other words not more than a few hours. He's former Army MP and supposedly went to a school on breaching and dynamic entry.

My position: The breacher is on the lock side of the door, entry team on the hinge side. Breacher opens door, drops tool and takes up weapon while the entry guys go in and the breacher follows.

His position: Breacher and entry guys on the same side, breacher opens door and team goes around him then he follows.

Who's got this thing right?

I dont think the latter makes any sense, but my training was minimal and 19 years ago.

He does have some info in any case, he explained accurately the 3 types of entry


Yes it is pointless to argue but it keeps us awake on long graveyard shifts
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:47:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 9:48:03 AM EDT by Breacher]
You can do it both ways but I prefer that my team does it your way. Who is providing cover for the Breacher using his way? Your way (the correct one IMHO) allows the point man to cover the door while the breacher is swinging the ram at the door.

If you are using breaching charges then I would line the team up on the same side so the shield man could provide protection for the blast.

Breacher
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:48:07 AM EDT
Just watch Texas SWAT on Court TV. You get to see SWAT tactics for door entry. If I recall, I could be wrong, the guy with the door ram came up to the door on the right side. Everyone was behind him. After he busted the door, everyone went around him. It was kind of strange because he could have been shot after busting the door down.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:52:47 AM EDT
You also want to be inside the door as soon as possible (get out of the fatal funnel ASAP). With the breacher on the opposite side, he is not in the way of the team and has time to get his weapon out before making entry and taking up a rear guard position.

Breacher
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:39:12 AM EDT
It can be done either way, but his way doesn't make much sense. The last thing you need during an entry is a clusterfuck in front of the door while the team tries to get around the breacher.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:41:38 AM EDT
We always did it with the breacher and team stacked behind him. Breacher hits the door. Backs off the team goes in breacher goes in at the end of the stack.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:45:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tripledouble:
Just watch Texas SWAT on Court TV. You get to see SWAT tactics for door entry. If I recall, I could be wrong, the guy with the door ram came up to the door on the right side. Everyone was behind him. After he busted the door, everyone went around him. It was kind of strange because he could have been shot after busting the door down.



I refuse to watch that show. They're VERY anti-gun
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:48:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 10:49:31 AM EDT by RustedAce]

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Okay, a guy at work ( the same one that doesnt see a need for civvies and black rifles) and I were discussing building entry. I only have a couple classes long ago as an AF SP, in other words not more than a few hours. He's former Army MP and supposedly went to a school on breaching and dynamic entry.

My position: The breacher is on the lock side of the door, entry team on the hinge side. Breacher opens door, drops tool and takes up weapon while the entry guys go in and the breacher follows.

His position: Breacher and entry guys on the same side, breacher opens door and team goes around him then he follows.

Who's got this thing right?

I dont think the latter makes any sense, but my training was minimal and 19 years ago.

He does have some info in any case, he explained accurately the 3 types of entry


Yes it is pointless to argue but it keeps us awake on long graveyard shifts



You are correct, the only reason you would want the breacher in front of the stack is if there is a wall or other obstacle on the other side of the door. Split stack is much perfered for closed doors. Having the breacher on the other side allows the team to get in much faster.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:53:14 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:57:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
It can be done either way, but his way doesn't make much sense. The last thing you need during an entry is a clusterfuck in front of the door while the team tries to get around the breacher.




When the breacher hits the door he steps to the side taking the ram with him. That clears the door way of the breacher and the ram.

I was taught the reason why you did this so the team is not detected by the breacher walking by the door before the hit.

But that was few years ago. Times and tactics change.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:02:09 PM EDT
Situtation dependent. We usually split the stack, but will go everyone on the same side to avoid crossing in front of windows, door, etc.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:45:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By joker581:
It can be done either way, but his way doesn't make much sense. The last thing you need during an entry is a clusterfuck in front of the door while the team tries to get around the breacher.




When the breacher hits the door he steps to the side taking the ram with him. That clears the door way of the breacher and the ram.

I was taught the reason why you did this so the team is not detected by the breacher walking by the door before the hit.

But that was few years ago. Times and tactics change.

I was thinking mainly of ballistic breaches. We were told to hit the lock, kick the door, and then move to whatever side the team isn't coming from.

One factor in this was probably a lack of surprise, coupled with steel doors and no windows on Iraqi houses which allowed for a less obvious approach.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:07:38 PM EDT
There are so many different ways to do it. We always try to stack on the hinge side ( door opens in) while the last man comes around and breaches then he goes in last. Recently weve been working on the "3 muzzle technique", where the first three members go in almost simultaneously. We always say it should be like throwing a handful of rocks in the door. Its gets easier if you can get to train with the same team and get really good at it. We always remember slow is smooth and smooth is fast and never sacrifice security and safty for speed.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:08:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 7:08:34 PM EDT by TheSneak]
Here's a video of how to breach and enter a porta-potty:

www.break.com/index/gogogo.html

pretty sure it's a dupe
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:16:58 PM EDT
how you breach and where you stand is dependent on the type of breach you are doing...but the team is on one side and the breacher and breacher security is on the other side....this enables the breacher to breach and the team to enter with speed.....no one is in the way.....then the breacher and breacher security can file into the end of the stack......
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:41:35 PM EDT
So what happens to all these neat tactics if the door opens outward instead of inward? This way, the breacher guy, "legal" or otherwise, would have to deal with the whole door frame instead of just a lock and bolt.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:35:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silhouetter:
So what happens to all these neat tactics if the door opens outward instead of inward? This way, the breacher guy, "legal" or otherwise, would have to deal with the whole door frame instead of just a lock and bolt.



That's what the charges are for.....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:47:10 PM EDT
It's kind of like a kicker on kick-offs in a football game-he follows the guys down the field after "breaching" the ball!!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 2:26:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silhouetter:
So what happens to all these neat tactics if the door opens outward instead of inward? This way, the breacher guy, "legal" or otherwise, would have to deal with the whole door frame instead of just a lock and bolt.

Det cord, breaching charges, an eightball of C-4, or a Halligan tool happen. The really tough ones get hooked to a truck.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 2:44:14 AM EDT
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