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Posted: 2/26/2006 1:47:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 1:48:03 PM EDT by mstennes]
I was reading some other post on this site as well as others and now I'm starting to wonder if SHTF am I undergunned? At present I have 5 AR's 2 14.5s 1 M4ergery, 1 MRP permant hiders) 1 set up for night use only, 3 16" (1 middy, 1 MRP) and 1 SPR. I'm wanting to do 1 more 16" middy as I have everything except the barrel and having this one with a a F front sight., the other middy is a folding front. All have ACOGs except the night use setup which has a VITOR and 552, gotta use my NVG's and the other 14.5 MRP which is running a QCT Leupold. The SPR is running a Mark 4 LRT Leupold. I also have a little over 10,000 rounds of Q3131, Q3131A and XM193, and M855. For the SPR I have some 5.56 TAP and Blackhills M262. I have 2 45's, 1 40 High Power and a 9mm Glock with about a 1000 rounds for them each. I realized I have no shot guns or 308 rifles. Are they needed? If I should get or need them which should I go with? Pump or Auto on the 12g? Mossburg 590 or Benelli M1? Which 308 if needed, a bolt gun or a auto? M1A or Remmington 700 or a DSA FAL? I do plan on selling off a coupla AR's to finace this if I have to but I just hate selling rifles. I have is no each of the members of my family have their own rifle and pistols plus a backup for what ever?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:53:15 PM EDT
you literally have more money than you know what to do with.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:58:09 PM EDT
I think that you are a little undergunned.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:59:40 PM EDT
You are already likely in the top 1% of armed preparadness in your town.

The only way I'd consider a .308 or other scoped long range gun would be if I lived in a flat desert or prairie environment, but in New England there are enough trees that shooting beyond 200 yards would seldom happen.

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:59:58 PM EDT
Must have FAL.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:00:08 PM EDT
Most of the Hajis getting their heads blown off in Iraq & Afghanistan probably wouldn't refer to the US infantryman as "undergunned".
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:00:46 PM EDT
I think you need some grenades and gas masks. I will trade you a few CS Grenades for one of your rifles.

-Ben
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:02:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 2:02:56 PM EDT by thedoctors308]
You need 2 shotguns.
1 in riot configuration, and 1 for foraging (birds, rabbits, squirrels)
For the riot gun, I would recommend a Remington 870 Police Magnum with the extended mag.
For the foraging gun I would recommend an NEF Pardner, or something simaler.
Single shot, break open, inexpensive, last forever.

You also need a .22 pistol and a .22 rifle for foraging.

ETA: Don't forget food, water, gasoline, spare parts, etc.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:04:17 PM EDT
id worry more about about h20,food,shelter,comms,BOB,BOV and BOL, nbc ect.

shtf... have all the guns you want,,, you'll still die like the sheep!!!!
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:06:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:07:40 PM EDT
What you really need is one rifle thats simple, with good reliable ammo and good reliable mags.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:10:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
If you haven't already, I think your money would be best spent at this point taking some carbine classes and see how you feel after that.

I don't know how realistic the "golf bag of guns" is. Sure if something happened I'd like to be able to magically pull out my M-4/scoped Remington 308/hk91 depending on the situation, but realistically I can only cart one long gun around with me and the M-4 is the one I practice with the most. If I have to shoot a ninja in the head at 600 yards I guess I'm screwed...




Your'e worried about ninja's attacking? What are you a fooking Pirate or something? Everyone knows Ninjas will only attack Pirates unless strongly provoked.

If you are bugging in or can get your stash to you BOL a Dedicated night rifle isnt a bad idea. Neither is having a truly long range precision rifle. Sides from that one M4 type camn pretty much do whatever you need.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:10:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:10:39 PM EDT
I would just buy a target type .22 pistol. A 10/22 is probally a little more accurate and has more ammo capacity. But if you just want it to shoot birds and shit, a target pistol is easier to carry with a real weapon.

I would also buy a pump shotgun, remington or mossberg, whatever you like.

Then I would start worrying about food, water, medical supplies etc.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:11:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
What you really need is one rifle thats simple, with good reliable ammo and good reliable mags.



And a reasonable supply of support parts - springs, pins, etc. Yes, you are correct. How will one carry an arsenal in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:22:19 PM EDT
NOT UNDERGUNNED......Although one can never have enough of them.

5.56 is perfect for almost all defensive and offensive situations in a SHTF scenario up close and even out to a fair distance.

.308 is what you'll need for the longer range targets, or.................. .50 BMG

(next weak i'm picking up my first .50, and i'm a little excited!)
-It's all about being well rounded-
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:24:21 PM EDT
way overgunned... all you need is a 10/22 and .38
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:25:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:27:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:41:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 3:45:43 PM EDT by mstennes]
OK I forgot I have 2 10/22's and a77/22 with about 5000 rounds for them and always picking up a brick here and there. I live in Eastern Washington State so the area here is mountainous/desert. Water, food and spare parts etc are covered. Actually food and water are plentiful here is your into wild game. As far as carbine schools does my time in the Army count? But seriously I know what you saying the MRP's will probably be put down the road and go back to the more KISS carbines and a 20". I dont have more money than I know what to do with. I like to build classic muscle cars but with where the price has gone with those I finished up them sold the ones I didn't want and used the money for these and other projects. I live in rural Eastern Washington and a good response time for the sheriffs is 30 minutes with the norm about 45. When I grew up my dad taught me how to be self reliant and hunt, fish and how to get/find water. We have always had gardens and I live on a ranch. His views were formed during the depression when he lived here and told us story's of people trying to steal and do what ever to get food or money as they lived in the country so who would know or help, as a WW2 vet it helped drive home these lessons his dad taught him when he saw what people did to survive.
I'm not a end of days doomsday person, but I learned long ago its better to have and not need than to need and not have. My closest neighbors are about 2 miles away. All of my family have learned and keep shooting cheap ammo just to stay in shape. Shelter is also covered as again when I was young we camped more than anyone I know as my dad was a hardcore outdoors-man I actually got to hate it but now I'm glad he made us kids do it as the life skills learned are irreplaceable. I'm just to a point now where I like the fun stuff but I want to have what I need and get rid of what I don't need. Here in Washington State we keep getting closer and close to the crap the Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia institute. I think most of our 206 politicians came from there.
Aimless I hear you thats where I'm heading to only have what I can carry. I guess what drove it home for me was the LA riots and then again the aftermath of Katrina when theres no law only those who can protect themselves will survive. Plus where I live the largest county in the state with the highest percentage of poverty per capita, lowest population, hell I know for a fact that at any given time there are know more than 10 sheriffs on duty. The meth problem here is growing like no tomorrow, hell their always finding a abandoned kitchen. Thats another reason I like to be prepared as I had a run in with a crack head who had no idea where or what he was doing. After he was subdued it took the sheriff over a hour to come and get him I guess we should have called and told him he was in the house instead of subdued. Anyway thats where my thoughts are coming from. So which 308 and shot guns should I go with? I have the hunting guns my dad gave me a old 700 30.06 and a 870. I'm not a big 06 man but it was free I would rather have a 308 though. by the way I used to have a Barret model 82 but I sold it as it was so fricken heavy and actually it was cool but practical?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:49:53 PM EDT
I think youd be perfectly fine with the SPR, the MK262, and a PVS14.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:51:31 PM EDT
[GUNKID]: All you need is a canned 10.5" CAR and a wheelbarrow. .308 has WAY too much recoil to be practical. [/GUNKID]

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:57:26 PM EDT
You're covered. Add FAL and Mossy 590 to the collection.

But what you have is good.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:58:29 PM EDT
You need a .308.

One trip to the range with assorted items of "cover" to shoot at will show you the advantage that 308 has over 5.56. The 308 turns "cover" into concealment.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:59:37 PM EDT
I think you need shorter paragraphs more than you need another gun....
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:00:21 PM EDT
may as well surrender to the zombie hords now.

you don't have a chance.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:

.............................................................. Here in Washington State we keep getting closer and close to the crap the Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia institute. I think most of our 206 politicians came from there. ........................

Thanks,
Mike



This is the gist of your post. They're going to try and take them away from you one day. How far to the Idaho border?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:05:49 PM EDT
One larger caliber weapon would be nice, like a .308 or a 30-06.... something that will defeat body armor!!!
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:09:16 PM EDT
You Don't Have an AK ?


What if all your ARs break?





Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:25:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
I was reading some other post on this site as well as others and now I'm starting to wonder if SHTF am I undergunned?


Depends. If the zombies attended the US Army War College, you're toast.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:27:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 3:27:43 PM EDT by VTHOKIESHOOTER]
We all know why you are posting this question. You want more guns but the wifey thinks you have too many guns as it is. You have been telling her: "Listen honey, I have enough guns to be prepaired for (insert mild SHTF/riot scenerio here) BUT what happens if (insert bigtime STHF scenerio here ie zombie hordes or communist invasion) and I won't have the right weapons for the situation and we may all die because you won't let me buy a Remington PSS .308 and an FAL.

Seriously dude, just keep buying more guns, ammo and magazines. You have enough AR's time for FAL's, Garands, AK's and bolt guns.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:31:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
everyone should have a 30 cal battle rifle. 223 is great for upclose, but 308 with ap ammo turns cover into concealment in cases where the 223 frankly just won't do the job.

jmho

mike



Big +1
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:37:42 PM EDT
Get you a big bore AR upper and you'll never be outgunned again!

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:53:26 PM EDT
Had AK's didnt really care for them. Idahos about 3 hours away. Wify doesnt care what I do within reason and it doesnt foul up her check book. or shopping. I have been leaning on a 308 but havent decide which to with auto or bolt gun. I used to have a FAL loved it, sold it durning the AWB for waaaaay more than I paid for it, had a HK91 it was ok but kinda akward with a scope sold it durning the AWB for Waaaay more than I paid for it too, had M1A loved it dont know why I sold it??? Maybe a Remington PSS restocked with a Micmillian standard synthetic? Mossy 590 or a BenelliM1 Super 90? hmmmmm
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:57:25 PM EDT
You will be fine if a heard of poodles attack you.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:05:46 PM EDT
You're completely helpless, better learn to call 911.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:21:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 4:22:18 PM EDT by Tromatic]
Perhaps you should consider a 5-ton or maybe some sort of 18-wheeler survival van to haul all that around. Either that, or decide right now what get's left behind when you have to run long and hard, and can't go back.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:25:21 PM EDT
Youre gonna need a BIG boat. No-ones gonna buy THAT many boating accidents.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:29:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mhpoole:
You will be fine if a heard of poodles attack you.




You laugh now, but just wait, just wait......
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:36:43 PM EDT
Man, How in holy high hell are you gonna carry all that?

If S really ever hits the fan to the degree that you need all that weaponry, they are gonna get your ass anyway. Don't put stock in any more than you can carry on your back. Having a house full of weapons is great until someone sneaks a molotov cocktail on the roof...

Have you thought about water? You'll have a hard time making the first week without water to drink.... that means you have to store, boil, or filter it. Water is one of your biggest liabilities in SHTF, but here they are in order:

3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
3 months without hope

A gun is nothing more than a tool, and it's a tool that does one job-putting holes in things.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:42:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:
Perhaps you should consider a 5-ton or maybe some sort of 18-wheeler survival van to haul all that around. Either that, or decide right now what get's left behind when you have to run long and hard, and can't go back.



+1

You only have two hands. So unless you plan on pulling a sled behind you or renting a U-Haul, just what good is all that extra crap going to do you?

Now, if you plan is to start a millitia when the SHTF, then you need to think about who your giving these rifles too. Most likely if they need one, they have never used one. Handing some noobie a M4 with dual lasers, Aimpoint, NV, and foward hand grip w/ light is only going to confuse the crap out of him. You should be stock piling flat-top, 16", AR-15's. Throw some some sights on them and your done. If you feel the need or have the cash, you can put optics on them later.

In a real SHTF, you'll need all the ammo and mags you can stand. It would also be wise to have enough parts to rebuild some of those rifles.

Oh, and dont forget, without food, water, and medical supplies, you won't last long anyways.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:15:05 PM EDT
LASERS

You're forgetting about LASERS
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:28:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 5:28:45 PM EDT by azhammer]
LASERS no workie
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:31:53 PM EDT
No, no I have enough AR's for everyone in my family, plus a side arm for most, yes I have some extra Ar's but the will be left if needed. We have plenty of supplies as in food and water for all for a week, we have medical supplies. We also have shelter. For extra water while I was a kid my dad showed me where natural springs are and how to find water. I also have more than enough magaiznes for each AR. My family and I do alot of hiking and camping, we even have winter camping gear kinda a pain but we have done it just to do it. We all have the camping/survival gear and packs ready for a natural emerengcy. I'm setting up my setups so all we have to do is grab our packs and rifles and were ready to go. I know some of the rifles will be left. Actually they will sold to finance the 308 and shotgun. I have alot of spare parts 3 lower kits and 3 complete bolt carrier groups, batteries, etc. I thought I had it all figured untill the shotgun, 308 deal got thrown into the fray?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:36:26 PM EDT
Hey Mike what county are you from?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:45:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 5:50:13 PM EDT by TrijiCog]

Originally Posted By mstennes:
I was reading some other post on this site as well as others and now I'm starting to wonder if SHTF am I undergunned? At present I have 5 AR's 2 14.5s 1 M4ergery, 1 MRP permant hiders) 1 set up for night use only, 3 16" (1 middy, 1 MRP) and 1 SPR. I'm wanting to do 1 more 16" middy as I have everything except the barrel and having this one with a a F front sight., the other middy is a folding front. All have ACOGs except the night use setup which has a VITOR and 552, gotta use my NVG's and the other 14.5 MRP which is running a QCT Leupold. The SPR is running a Mark 4 LRT Leupold. I also have a little over 10,000 rounds of Q3131, Q3131A and XM193, and M855. For the SPR I have some 5.56 TAP and Blackhills M262. I have 2 45's, 1 40 High Power and a 9mm Glock with about a 1000 rounds for them each. I realized I have no shot guns or 308 rifles. Are they needed? If I should get or need them which should I go with? Pump or Auto on the 12g? Mossburg 590 or Benelli M1? Which 308 if needed, a bolt gun or a auto? M1A or Remmington 700 or a DSA FAL? I do plan on selling off a coupla AR's to finace this if I have to but I just hate selling rifles. I have is no each of the members of my family have their own rifle and pistols plus a backup for what ever?
Thanks,
Mike



Your missing one crucial thing,cowbells.Get some cowbells,you will thank me later.You should bury your weapons and ammo at various strategic loacations scattered throughout the mountainous areas you might frequent.That's when the cowbells come in handy.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:36:08 PM EDT
Is that like more cowbell? Actually thats the plan we have horses so it wouldnt be any big deal to cache a bunch of ammo and weapons around areas that have what we need to survive. We have a constrcution company also so I have thought of taking a excavator and making a few nice hidden caches on our property also, that way you could carry what you need but always come back for more if needed or when needed and be able to get to it without going to the obvious places like your home. Having a few up in the places we frequent is also a very good plan so you would be able to stay self sustaining without going home. Plus that way I dont need to sell anything just store it.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:42:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Is that like more cowbell? Actually thats the plan we have horses so it wouldnt be any big deal to cache a bunch of ammo and weapons around areas that have what we need to survive. We have a constrcution company also so I have thought of taking a excavator and making a few nice hidden caches on our property also, that way you could carry what you need but always come back for more if needed or when needed and be able to get to it without going to the obvious places like your home. Having a few up in the places we frequent is also a very good plan so you would be able to stay self sustaining without going home. Plus that way I dont need to sell anything just store it.



You're kidding right? I thought I was paranoid . But seriously, what would Jack Bauer do?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 5:56:23 PM EDT by cnatra]
get a .308 battle rifle (FAL, HK91, M1A) & a .308 or .300WinMag bolt gun (maybe even a .338mag)

and a good 12gauge, Benelli M1S90 or Rem870, Win1300, Moss590
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:59:12 PM EDT
and what are you gonna do with all those guns when some little jerkoff blinds you with a laser from 2km away?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:42:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
You Don't Have an AK ? hathr


the enemies will have AK's. once killed you'll be able to loot these off of the corpses, as well as any extra ammunition, health packs, night vision and top secret documents that will aid you in your mission.

but ya, do many people carry a crossbow in case they need to use discretion? does nightvision or thermal imaging ever have an advantage over a plain old flashlight? i would think that this combo would be ideal in the case which keeping your ass hidden is vital. maybe you could even have a cutoff switch for the electricity rerouted thruogh your room. but then again i'm wrong a lot, and barely in my 20's. my best friends dad actually had a lever behind a panel on the wall next to his bed, we werent sure what it did and quite frankly we were afraid to ask, but we knew it was cool and elite! they had a wolf and a sign that said "Forget the dog, beware of Owner". He and his alcoholic vietnam war buddy would lay out their guns on the dining room table and clean and clean their guns, and i dont even believe they ever used them. I promised when i grew up i'd be just like them!

oh how i miss california.
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