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Posted: 2/24/2006 3:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 5:51:23 PM EDT by Burkey]
I have a classmate who for the most part is very conservative. He and myself get along well, except for two major points. Religion and Gun control. On the religion, I am agnostic, while he is christian, I support christianity as an establishement, so we really only argue over theology, not a social role of religion. Now, gun control. He supports concealed carry for self defense, and says semi-automatic rifles should be "allowed". (Bad sign just using that word in place of right)

He is against

-"Assualt style" weapons- "What Does a person need an AK47 for anyway?"

-Automatic weapons (I personally think he confuses the two, as when I remind him that my "AK" is really a semiautomatic WASR 10, and my "M4"s are really AR 15's he reluctantly accepts that they are "ok")

-"Stockpiles" of weapons- "The only reason a person might have 50 or so guns is to arm gangs"

-Gun pssesion in Urban areas- "We need to take guns out of the hands of gangs, how would you like to be a cop gettingshot at?"

Please, help me rebut these points, I would really like to see him be pro-gun as he is conservative all-the way, so he must have some logic. I will admit to playing the race card, when he said he wanted to keep guns out of urban areas. "So you want to keep poor black people defensless against the gangs?" I would specificly like to counter his points, introduce some logic, and maybe take him shooting one day with my grandpa and my brother, I think that would convert him.

Up to the task?

Also, I need to make a very strong case against his anti-MG veiwpoint. I don't think self defense will cut it there.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:45:26 PM EDT
I have a bunch of guns because they are fun. Granted, I only *need* a few. A person doesn't need a sportscar, but it sure is more fun, and the more the merrier. He doesn't seem anti-gun, he just seems like he trusts the newspapers too much. Introduce him to NFA gun owners in your area and show that they all don't go around levelling towns. It is all hands on stuff, so take him shooting as often as possible
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:47:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:
I have a bunch of guns because they are fun. Granted, I only *need* a few. A person doesn't need a sportscar, but it sure is more fun, and the more the merrier. He doesn't seem anti-gun, he just seems like he trusts the newspapers too much. Introduce him to NFA gun owners in your area and show that they all don't go around levelling towns. It is all hands on stuff, so take him shooting as often as possible



Exactly what I was thinking, you can talk all day but nothing gets to you like emptying an AR.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:48:00 PM EDT
You friend is a fucking retard, don't bother trying.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:49:09 PM EDT
A mag dump should convert him.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:52:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 3:53:53 PM EDT by builttoughf250]
wearing a ski mask, draw down on him with a Airsoft.

then run away without letting him know its you,

next time you see him dont say anything about it. he'll bring up the story.

then you can say "now, if you had a concealed carry permit and a handgun, you could have defended yourself. well im glad nothing happened"

ETA i only mentioned this for humor so dont burn me at the stake for it. although i think it would work...
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:56:49 PM EDT
Tell him that it is because of the NRA that the conservatives are in control. Print that quote from Bill Clinton

He needs to support our rights, and we in turn will protect him from the Godless tax and spend baby killing Democrats.

Or he can kiss our ass as we carry his water.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:13:34 PM EDT
The guy’s a Conservative so he’s not an idiot. His problem is that he’s not all that familiar with firearms and the people who shoot recreationally. Without any better information to use he falls back on media myths.

Start by asking him if he wants to ban “Sports Cars.” When he asks how you define the word tell him it means cars with spoilers and performance tires. Tell him the only reason to own a “Sports Car” is to outrun the police and that they are the choice vehicle of gangs. Ask him if there should be a limit on how many cars someone owns.

He will probably realize that a “Sports Car” is pretty hard to define, that anyone can drive like a maniac in any car, and that banning cosmetic features like spoilers is just plain stupid. I imagine he will oppose the idea.

He will realize that every argument he has to ban some firearms sounds pretty stupid when it’s applied to cars.

Tell him that the reason for that is that he is familiar with cars but not with firearms.

Then take him shooting.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:22:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
Then take him shooting.


The cure all. It always works to change attitudes. Bring him to the range, and let him squeeze off a few through your AR. I bet he'll start to like it. Hell, he may say, "well, that's not so bad."

You will have won, without speaking a word. A rifle report says more than your mouth ever could. Then invite him to a "cleaning party" with some other guys to show how to clean and maintain the rifle over some beers, talking about the virtues of military weapons.

Give him a week before he goes to buy his own. Remember, BRD is highly contagious!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:28:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thirsty:

Originally Posted By Thuban:
Then take him shooting.


The cure all. It always works to change attitudes. Bring him to the range, and let him squeeze off a few through your AR. I bet he'll start to like it. Hell, he may say, "well, that's not so bad."

You will have won, without speaking a word. A rifle report says more than your mouth ever could. Then invite him to a "cleaning party" with some other guys to show how to clean and maintain the rifle over some beers, talking about the virtues of military weapons.

Give him a week before he goes to buy his own. Remember, BRD is highly contagious!



The only thing that does to a die hard lib is make them like shooting. Bet your butt they will still vote for folks who will take em away.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:58:44 PM EDT
does he go camping? take him camping. have your truck already filled with Funs. oops, typo, i mean Guns. dont tell him you are taking the guns. once hes out in the woods with nothing to do, he'll have no choice but to shoot your toys.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:52:48 PM EDT
-"Assualt style" weapons- "What Does a person need an AK47 for anyway?"

So, he is against a "style", appearance, rather than the action of the criminal.

-Automatic weapons (I personally think he confuses the two, as when I remind him that my "AK" is really a semiautomatic WASR 10, and my "M4"s are really AR 15's he reluctantly accepts that they are "ok")


From this and the previous statement, he is probably unaware of the difference between a semiauto and a "machine gun". His lack of understanding invalidates his opinion.

-"Stockpiles" of weapons- "The only reason a person might have 50 or so guns is to arm gangs"

I know a guy with 100 fishing rigs. He bought racks from a store, and has them in what was a spare bedroom. All he needs is price tags and a cash register to look right.

Who is he to decide what another person's reasons or needs are?

-Gun pssesion in Urban areas- "We need to take guns out of the hands of gangs, how would you like to be a cop gettingshot at?"

Fine and good. Of course criminals and gangs should not have guns. But all the proposals of the gun control crowd do nothing about that. They only disarm good law-abiding people. Ask him how to disarm criminals without disarming those that should be armed.

A free law-abiding citizens ability to defend himself should not be predicated on what a criminal has done, or might do.

To disarm good people in the face of evil is itself a greater evil.

Finally, my very favorite quote... indulge me, I will post it again:

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." --Ted Nugent


Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:56:39 PM EDT
Like convincing a "born again" that there is no god. Don't waste too much time on a lost cause. It's a waste, and there are children starving in the former soviet union.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By thirsty:

Originally Posted By Thuban:
Then take him shooting.


The cure all. It always works to change attitudes. Bring him to the range, and let him squeeze off a few through your AR. I bet he'll start to like it. Hell, he may say, "well, that's not so bad."

You will have won, without speaking a word. A rifle report says more than your mouth ever could. Then invite him to a "cleaning party" with some other guys to show how to clean and maintain the rifle over some beers, talking about the virtues of military weapons.

Give him a week before he goes to buy his own. Remember, BRD is highly contagious!



The only thing that does to a die hard lib is make them like shooting. Bet your butt they will still vote for folks who will take em away.



Like I said, he's a conservative and supports people who are pro-gun, but not for that reason.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:56:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
wearing a ski mask, draw down on him with a Airsoft.

then run away without letting him know its you,

next time you see him dont say anything about it. he'll bring up the story.

then you can say "now, if you had a concealed carry permit and a handgun, you could have defended yourself. well im glad nothing happened"

ETA i only mentioned this for humor so dont burn me at the stake for it. although i think it would work...



He supports concealed carry, but he seems to be a bit of a "fudd" with the "The only thing you need these weapons for is to kill," talk.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:01:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 10:02:43 AM EDT by Yossarian]

Originally Posted By Burkey:
I will admit to playing the race card, when he said he wanted to keep guns out of urban areas. "So you want to keep poor black people defensless against the gangs?" .



That was not playing the race card. That was playing the truth card.

When California banned the "Saturday Nigh Specials" and other inexpensive handguns, they effectively took the away the ability for many poor blacks to defend themselves. Where you used to be able to get a weapon with which to defend yourself for less than $200.00, with that ban for all intents and puposes inflation hit and your cost increased by 200% to $600.00 for just about any California legal weapon.

For drug dealers, hell, they just sell a couple extra baggies and they made up the difference. For people with regular jobs and families to support, picking up an extra 40 hours worth of pay is tough.

Don't beat yourself up over that one. You were speaking gospel.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:07:05 AM EDT
Set them up with a meeting with Chuck Norris. He will explain the second amendment which is printed on the bottom of his boot. They will then read it forever because it will be imprinted on their forehead after his roundhouse kick to their face
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:07:13 AM EDT
I like the camping idea. Convert him
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:22:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
I have a classmate who for the most part is very conservative. He and myself get along well, except for two major points. Religion and Gun control. On the religion, I am agnostic, while he is christian, I support christianity as an establishement, so we really only argue over theology, not a social role of religion. Now, gun control. He supports concealed carry for self defense, and says semi-automatic rifles should be "allowed". (Bad sign just using that word in place of right)

He is against

-"Assualt style" weapons- "What Does a person need an AK47 for anyway?"Sometimes things are simply a matter of want rather than need. No person has a need for a car that tops 200mph and costs $500,000, but plenty of people have one. More to the point, why shouldn't a law abiding person have an AK if they want one?

-Automatic weapons (I personally think he confuses the two, as when I remind him that my "AK" is really a semiautomatic WASR 10, and my "M4"s are really AR 15's he reluctantly accepts that they are "ok")Again, cool to have. If you like cars, you probably want a Ferrari. If you like guns, you might want a machine gun.

-"Stockpiles" of weapons- "The only reason a person might have 50 or so guns is to arm gangs"In the world of collecting 50 different examples of anything is a pretty small collection. There are many guns that have more than 50 different variations of the same model. People collect them. The idea that the only purpose of a gun collection being to arm gangs is as stupid as thinking that stamp collections are for selling LSD or mailing letter bombs.

-Gun pssesion in Urban areas- "We need to take guns out of the hands of gangs, how would you like to be a cop gettingshot at?"How would you like living in the best neighborhood you could afford and being at the mercy of armed criminals? Cops have guns to shoot people that shoot at them, so why shouldn't the noncriminal residents of urban areas? Besides there are already laws against possesion of a firearm by a convicted felon, and possesion or use of a firearm during the commision of a crime. Getting guns away from gangs is a great idea. Attempting to do it by disarming an entire population is criminal.

Please, help me rebut these points, I would really like to see him be pro-gun as he is conservative all-the way, so he must have some logic. I will admit to playing the race card, when he said he wanted to keep guns out of urban areas. "So you want to keep poor black people defensless against the gangs?" I would specificly like to counter his points, introduce some logic, and maybe take him shooting one day with my grandpa and my brother, I think that would convert him.

Up to the task?

Also, I need to make a very strong case against his anti-MG veiwpoint. I don't think self defense will cut it there.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:29:38 AM EDT
Make new friends.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:30:27 AM EDT
You said he is a conservative. HOW? economically? or is he religious? I find that Christians are 50\50 when it comes to guns. Some like'em some don't. Just take'em shooting. Dont SCARE THE PANTS OFF HIM! dont give him a shotie or a .50 BMG the first time out! also stay away from noise makers. Start out first with a .22 lr then move up to a pistol caliber Carbine. belive me before you know it they all will love it. the whole problem today is how to get started. Most people dont even know where to buy guns and then they dont really know the rules or where a range is. We anti-gunners really need to do a lot more MENTORING! invite people to go with you shooting. Remind them that you don't need to hunt. You can use it for plinking and home defence.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:31:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:
wearing a ski mask, draw down on him with a Airsoft.

then run away without letting him know its you,

next time you see him dont say anything about it. he'll bring up the story.

then you can say "now, if you had a concealed carry permit and a handgun, you could have defended yourself. well im glad nothing happened"

ETA i only mentioned this for humor so dont burn me at the stake for it. although i think it would work...



He supports concealed carry, but he seems to be a bit of a "fudd" with the "The only thing you need these weapons for is to kill," talk.



He is correct.
That is the reason for which I own a weapon.
To kill those who might harm me, my family, or attempt to take my property.
He's a conservative, so he should be receptive to reason.
Find a copy of the Second Amendment Primer - I myself have used it to convert a few fudds.
If he is an educated man, he will have to accept the conclusions in the book.
He may have some cognitive dissonance for a while, but eventually, he will come around.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:31:33 AM EDT
You keep saying he is conservative, but I would question that.... I bet if you really look at his motivations and the thinking behind his opinions, you will find a moderate or a liberal posing as a conservative.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:33:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:44:50 AM EDT
Simplest answer is that basic rights are NOT "needs" based. If he cannot grasp that concept, don't waste anymore of your time.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:08:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo:
You keep saying he is conservative, but I would question that.... I bet if you really look at his motivations and the thinking behind his opinions, you will find a moderate or a liberal posing as a conservative.



Well, he is very pro-bush, supports fully the war in Iraq, says FU to the enviromentalists, is economically conservative, favors small government, and is quite religious.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:48:48 AM EDT
Sounds like he was never really exposed to guns growing up. I think you just need to take him out and have a good time. Couple hours and he'll be singing a different tune.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:55:55 PM EDT
Talked with him a for a bit, and he seems to have undergone somewhat of an about face. He supports CCW, semi-auto mean looking guns and even full auto guns, with the correct background check. He is against the '86 MG ban, mainly becuase how I explained to him how so many military inovations come from civilian weapons, like the beloved M16 for example. When this market is cut off, less resaerch occurs and our small arms inovations begin to stagnate. Also, I informed him of the atitude of Illonois Democrats towards the gun industry, I think that is what really changed his mind.

In other news, I may have a new shooting buddy.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:00:33 PM EDT
Nice, congratulations! Send him here next.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:10:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:
You friend is a fucking retard, don't bother trying.



Is there any chance that, just once in a while, you could try to post something helpful or constructive?

CO
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 6:12:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

In other news, I may have a new shooting buddy.



Nice work.

What's his username going to be?

CO
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:35:14 AM EDT
He has checked out Arfcom now. He kinda liked thepic thread. Now he calls himself " a second ammendment supporter". He's on the right track, now he just needs to go shooting.
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