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Posted: 2/23/2006 12:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 12:13:08 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
www.nydailynews.com/front/story/393992p-333984c.html


ALBANY - Sen. David Paterson is pushing a bill that would require cops to shoot to wound, rather than using deadly force - drawing outrage from officers.

The bill also would create a new provision for second-degree manslaughter that would be reserved specifically for an officer who "uses more than the minimal amount necessary" to stop a crime suspect.

Paterson, who is on Eliot Spitzer's ticket as lieutenant governor, has reintroduced the bill twice since first sponsoring it in 2001, refusing to let it die.

In a memo urging its passage, Paterson wrote: "There is no justification for terminating another's life when a less extreme measure may accomplish the same objective."

Current law gives cops a wide berth to use deadly force when a suspect presents a danger to another person's life.

Paterson (D-Harlem) wrote that a police officer, under his legislation, "would have to try toshoot a suspect in the arm or the leg."

"This bill shows absolutely no understanding of just how difficult it is for a police officer when they get into situations requiring the use of deadly force," John Grebert, director of the New York State Association of Chiefs of Police, told the Daily News.

His sentiment was echoed by Dan DeFedericis, president of the New York State Troopers PBA, who said: "We are definitely opposed to this bill ... and we strongly believe it could endanger the lives of police officers and innocent civilians."

While Spitzer already has the endorsement of the New York City Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, that group's Albany lobbyist, John Poklemba, said, "This bill is very ill conceived. I can't imagine any police agencies not being opposed to it."

Paterson told The News last night that his bill would safeguard the public. He explained that he wrote the bill in response to the acquittal of four NYPD officers charged in the 1999 shooting death of the unarmed Amadou Diallo in the Bronx.

"Many people were surprised the officers weren't guilty of something, criminally negligent homicide or something that involved some negligence," he said. "I thought I was writing the bill that really mirrored what the department rules are."

A Spitzer spokesman declined to comment.


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:10:53 PM EDT
Get out while you still can.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:11:58 PM EDT
me too - that's why I move in '95 to NC

get oot while you can
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:12:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 12:13:24 PM EDT by tc556guy]
Thread on-going in Hometown forum, and I already sent him an email, although not being in his district, I am sure it will get kicked back. Thats BS too, because as a leader, he gets extra $$, and should open up his email system to getting messages from all NYers, not just people from his district. If he just wants to hear from people in his district, he should step down from leadership roles.
Edit to add: I was unaware of him being Spitzers buddy. This should be made an election issue.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:14:55 PM EDT
That's impressive.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:15:21 PM EDT
That is about the most retarded thing I have read today.

On second thought, you could always say that you were just aiming to give him a busted lip.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:16:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Thread on-going in Hometown forum, and I already sent him an email, although not being in his district, I am sure it will get kicked back. Thats BS too, because as a leader, he gets extra $$, and should open up his email system to getting messages from all NYers, not just people from his district. If he just wants to hear from people in his district, he should step down from leadership roles.
Edit to add: I was unaware of him being Spitzers buddy. This should be made an election issue.



Not just buddy... He's on Eliot Spitzer's ticket as lieutenant governor!!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:16:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 12:23:21 PM EDT by garandman]
Isn't shooting to wound the same as shooting to maim? <just trying to think like a liberal>

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:16:31 PM EDT
Beyond bizarre.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:16:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
That's impressivly stupid.




Fixed that. It's almost too stupid to believe.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:17:22 PM EDT
That's it. The line has been crossed. Build a wall and send in Snake.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:17:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Watch these morons get elected



Ain't it the sad truth.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:17:40 PM EDT
"Honest, I was aiming for his arm, but hit him in the head...twice. And in the heart....once. My sights must be off....."

Fuckin' NYS, how do we produce these liberal douchebags? Is it something in the water?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:18:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Not just buddy... He's on Eliot Spitzer's ticket as lieutenant governor!!!



As I said, it should be made an election issue. I intend to send another email to Spitzer then.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:18:21 PM EDT
I'm sure this will play well with his scumbag voter base...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:18:32 PM EDT



reap what you sow...


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:20:49 PM EDT
Spitzer election site discussion board!Lets see what I can do here.........

www.spitzer2006.com/main.cfm?actionId=forumShowHome
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:21:32 PM EDT
The only hope we in NYS have at this point is that between Spitzer and his idiot running mate they make such stupid and ridiculous statements and such, they become a laughing stock.

I mean Spitzer come out and said he believes the morning after pill should be available without a scrip to anyone, regardless of age, just for asking at the pharmacy...

Then again, this is NYS, and it is loaded with brain dead moron liberals who don't deserve to breathe my air.....
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:27:31 PM EDT
Why do the cops in New York have guns anyways? I thought liberals beleived that the only reason criminals have guns is because the cops do...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:28:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Watch these morons get elected


One word: Hillary
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:28:54 PM EDT


I'm just going to whistle a bar or two of "Dixie", shake my head, and move on to another thread.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:29:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 12:33:43 PM EDT by motown_steve]
You know what?

GOOD!

Between the Chiefs not wanting police to carry off duty and this, maybe it'll knock the chip off of some cops shoulders and get them to start siding with citizenry again.

You hear cops spewing bullshit about how "it's our mission to stop violent felons and no one else should have that ability" when they need hallow point bullets but want to keep them out of the hands of citizens. You hear cops yammering on about how "you don't need an assault rifle for hunting or self defense", but then they need AR15's for their patrol vehicles and SWAT teams. Now the shoe is on the other foot! Now the government wants to make the police defenseless against the criminals! Your government is turning on you! Your law makers are abandoning you!

Repent of your ways and join up armed to the teeth citizenry who have been fighting this battle since the 1930's!

ETA - I know that ALL cops aren't against the armed citizenry...I know it all too well. But there's alot who are and this should be a nice bucket of cold water for them. For those of you on this board, don't take this as cop bashing. I'm talking about specific elitests in your ranks and you know who they are.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:35:17 PM EDT
Does this mean California gets a break today?

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:40:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

In a memo urging its passage, Paterson wrote: "There is no justification for terminating another's life when a less extreme measure may accomplish the same objective."

Current law gives cops a wide berth to use deadly force when a suspect presents a danger to another person's life.




First, shooting a person NO MATTER WHERE is deadly force.

Secondly, the police are trained to "shoot to stop". That means they shoot until the other person is no longer a threat.
If the police shoot and miss, and the BG puts down his weapon, the police stop shooting.
If the police shoot, and hit, and the other person decides to put down the weapon, or is incpacitated, the police stop shooting.
If the police shoot and kill the person, well that stops him too.

"Shoot to kill" implies that the officer will not stop shooting until the suspect is dead, no matter what the suspect does.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:44:33 PM EDT
Wonder what'll happen when cops quit in record numbers and crime skyrockets. How will they explain that?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:47:50 PM EDT
If it took WHAT.....63 rounds to capp Amadou Diallo when they were TRYING to kill the guy....'



...HOW MANY ROUNDS WILL THEY FIRE WHEN THEY ARE SHOOTING TO WOUND, ONLY AIMING FOR EXTRMETIES?

Issue all cops belt feds, I guess.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:48:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Wonder what'll happen when cops quit in record numbers and crime skyrockets. How will they explain that?



It'll be Bush's fault

Your avatar will also partly be to blame.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:50:06 PM EDT
Utterly idiotic.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:51:26 PM EDT
They have a thread going but it wont let me post, even after registering.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:55:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Wonder what'll happen when cops quit in record numbers and crime skyrockets. How will they explain that?



It'll be Bush's fault

Your avatar will also partly be to blame.


Hater!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:57:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:01:50 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
You know what?

GOOD!

Between the Chiefs not wanting police to carry off duty and this, maybe it'll knock the chip off of some cops shoulders and get them to start siding with citizenry again.



The NYPD PBA has already endorsed Spitzer for Governor. I wonder what the rank and file PBA members feel about it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:00:17 PM EDT
What's the big deal? Shouldn't the TASER be sufficient? I say take all of their guns. No guns = no dead disadvantaged/downtrodden peoples.

<­BR>





I'm kidding!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:05:32 PM EDT
I am SOOOO glad I moved out of NY..

Sorry guys
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:09:10 PM EDT
Wait a second, I'm confused. As far as I know, shooting people in the extremities generally leaves them crippled for life. Liberals have always told me that people who are crippled have such terrible, hopeless lives that we might as well kill them. Now they want the police to cripple suspects, most of whom are innocent anyways, (because all the police do is beat up and shoot innocent black people, because they're all racists anyways)? According to Liberal definitions, cops are just being compassionate by shooting to kill, because they're preventing these hard-working gentlemen from having to struggle through the rest of their lives handicapped - yet another reason for all those racist employers to discriminate against them.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mace:
Wait a second, I'm confused. As far as I know, shooting people in the extremities generally leaves them crippled for life. Liberals have always told me that people who are crippled have such terrible, hopeless lives that we might as well kill them. Now they want the police to cripple suspects, most of whom are innocent anyways, (because all the police do is beat up and shoot innocent black people, because they're all racists anyways)? According to Liberal definitions, cops are just being compassionate by shooting to kill, because they're preventing these hard-working gentlemen from having to struggle through the rest of their lives handicapped - yet another reason for all those racist employers to discriminate against them.



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:19:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By mace:
Wait a second, I'm confused. As far as I know, shooting people in the extremities generally leaves them crippled for life. Liberals have always told me that people who are crippled have such terrible, hopeless lives that we might as well kill them. Now they want the police to cripple suspects, most of whom are innocent anyways, (because all the police do is beat up and shoot innocent black people, because they're all racists anyways)? According to Liberal definitions, cops are just being compassionate by shooting to kill, because they're preventing these hard-working gentlemen from having to struggle through the rest of their lives handicapped - yet another reason for all those racist employers to discriminate against them.






The scary thing is that someone from DU will read this and say that a law should be made outlawing cops from carrying guns period.

Instead they should be armed with rainbows and issue verbal warnings of giving the criminal a "time out". Then the officer must hug the criminal and try to reason with them to figure out why they are trying to shoot the police. Yeah...that's the ticket...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:22:53 PM EDT
I would get out of the Police force there. To say to shoot to wound is just crazy. A crackhead with super crack powers charging you with a knife or baseball bat will be difficult to shoot to injure since he will not feel it. I shot to the heart or head will more than likely stop him but with super crack powers no one knows for sure. I have not shot a crack head so the experts will chime in.

Max
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:25:19 PM EDT
Actually, even shooting to wound sounds pretty barbaric to me.

How about just shooting weapons out of people’s hands like in the Gene Autry movies?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:52:07 PM EDT
The moment that someone under pressure, using a pretty inaccurate (because of inherent instability and short sight radius, and typically poor sights) can't shoot to wound....and kills the asshole....what's he going to say? I was trying to wound him sir, but I hit him near the goin and he bled out....the situation happened so fast..........

Then all he hears is the klik of the bars shutting. I bet you that the whole NYPD would quit and walk out after that happened. If this bill goes through.....it will. If one of my fellow officers got put in jail for a clean shoot, because he didn't wound, I'd walk up to the Chief and throw my gun and badge on his desk and walk the hell out.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:19:16 PM EDT
Unless of course they are saying that the police shooting a person in a limb ISN'T deadly force.

Then they can stop carrying those heavy night sticks, and just use bullets to a limb like a long range baton.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:25:14 PM EDT
Sorry, I wounded him in the forehead, tough shit. wtf
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:28:32 PM EDT
Another symptom of those that make laws knowing NOTHING about of what they speak.

ANYONE that has spent more than 5 minutes on the range knows that this is simply bullshit of the highest order but you have people that have (most likely) never fired a gun in their lives, never have been through ANY type of tactical training and CERTANLY have never been shot at, suggesting that cops should "shoot to wound" (and threaten them with criminal prosecution if they don't).

I weep for the insanity that passes as "thought" today.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Another symptom of those that make laws knowing NOTHING about of what they speak.

ANYONE that has spent more than 5 minutes on the range knows that this is simply bullshit of the highest order but you have people that have (most likely) never fired a gun in their lives, never have been through ANY type of tactical training and CERTANLY have never been shot at, suggesting that cops should "shoot to wound" (and threaten them with criminal prosecution if they don't).

I weep for the insanity that passes as "thought" today.



Liberalism is the Insanity that you're talking about That is what's destroying America

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder ( at best ) (at it's worst) Liberalism is a Dangerous Political Movement - Michael Savage
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:40:19 PM EDT
Also more civil court cases and cops getting sued cause they maimed said thug and the thug cant work anymore (doesnt matter that he was jobless before the shooting he was "about" to tart a new job)

Plus anytime you miss a leg or armyour opening up to more liability because the round goes somewhere else...into the inocent victem down the street...or in to the thugs cheast and now your in trouble cause you didnt shoot to wound every ass hat cop hater will be saying you killed him on pourpose....

I also see a second agenda with this...if the cops cant shoot to wound then they cant care a gun(do this with hard as hell qualifing test at range) well a cop has training so civilians dont have the training so they dont need guns then the cops wont need them .....GUN CONTROL in a long drawn about way....
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:41:28 PM EDT
Four months and a wake-up!

Then I can do my own "Escape from NY"

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:52:42 PM EDT
What segment of the voting public are they trying to appeal to with this ?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:54:26 PM EDT
Everybody sing along...

Bow down before the one you serve
You're going to get what you deserve
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:58:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 3:59:15 PM EDT by BURN]

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Everybody sing along...

Bow down before the one you serve
You're going to get what you deserve



Head like a hole black as your soul Id rather DIE! then give you control!

CHECK DA AVITAR
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:04:40 PM EDT
Funny how the POPO squirms when the morons in Albany turn the anti-gun lens on them. I personally hope this passes so next time an anti-gun bill comes up maybe the POPO will side with law abiding gun owners instead of Patrick Lynch denouncing us.
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