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Posted: 2/23/2006 6:59:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:00:58 AM EDT
...and I still get goosebumps when I see it.

(I know the controversy about how it was reenacted and don't particularly care... It's an awesome symbolic photograph)
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:01:34 AM EDT
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:03:38 AM EDT
Isn't that actually the 2nd flag raising at Iwo?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:03:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



Is that a trick question?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:04:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 7:04:45 AM EDT by mtechgunman]
i am lost for words........

god bless america
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:05:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:

Isn't that actually the 2nd flag raising at Iwo?




I believe so
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:09:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:11:14 AM EDT





makes me proud
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:14:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



No they were not in the Army. I think most of them were U.S. Marines.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:16:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



No they were not in the Army. I think most of them were U.S. Marines.

I think one was a navy doc
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:19:08 AM EDT
6 of those men died within 3 days of that photo. God speed
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:19:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 7:19:45 AM EDT by ar15bubba]
You can have your Monet, Manet or Rembrandt...I would rather look at a photograph of U.S. Marines raisng Old Glory over Mount Suribachi!



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:23:52 AM EDT
First flag raised was a small flag. Somebody in charge down below saw it and sent up a larger flag so that everybody could see it. This second flag raising is the famous one. It is not a posed picture. There is a posed picture of a groupd of Marines sitting in front of the first flag. That is where the contoversy. When the photographer was asked if his shot was posed, he answered yes becasue he though the question was about this photo and not the one that bacame famous.

The photographer actually caught this phot as a grab shot. He just happened to look that way when it was going up and took a quick shot. (When you consider that the photograph was made with a 4 x 5 Speed Graphic you realize how good a shot this really is. Those old new sphotographers could work miracles with those things.) He didn't even know if shot turned out good or not. By the time he was actually abele to see it, it had already started to become famous. He was one of the last to know. The shot was developed onboard a ship. Those on board knew what a great shot it was. It was then transmitted to the states and sent out to newspapers around the country.

There is a very good explaination of this inthe book "Falgs of Our Fathers"
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:25:30 AM EDT
Five were US Marines: Ira Hayes, Mike Strank, Franklin Sousley, Rene Gagnon and Harlon Block. Jack Bradley was the Navy Corpsman.

Only Hayes, Gagnon and Bradley left the island alive.

SEMPER FI....

Charles CWO-3 USMC (ret).

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:27:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:30:12 AM EDT
Thanks for the reminder.

If you want to get up to speed on the flag raising on Iwo, check out "Flags of our Fathers" by James Bradley.

His dad, John Bradley, was a Navy Medic that landed w/ the Marines & was one of the men (third from left) raising the SECOND larger flag.

I'm a pretty small man compared to those guys that landed on Iwo.

Razor
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:32:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 7:34:56 AM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
First flag raised was a small flag. Somebody in charge down below saw it and sent up a larger flag so that everybody could see it. This second flag raising is the famous one.




Yep.

First flag was a flag that a Marine had carried with him. The second one was one of those big flags off one of the warships.

ETA: There's something about the fact that you can't see their faces, that really makes an impact. Like it's more important that they're Marines.

It's one of my favorite war photographs ever.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:36:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
6 of those men died within 3 days of that photo. God speed



You sir are incorrect. 3 of them were killed on Iwo. 3 survived the war.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:41:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



And the youth of today rears it's stupid head......
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:42:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
6 of those men died within 3 days of that photo. God speed



I think your math is off, isn't there only six guys in the picture?

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:48:45 AM EDT
Each year my video production company is hired to go to Washington, D.C. with the eighth grade class from Clinton, Wisconsin where I grew up, to videotape their trip. I greatly enjoy visiting our nation's capitol, and each year I take some special memories back with me. This fall's trip was especially memorable.

On the last night of our trip, we stopped at the Iwo Jima memorial. This memorial is the largest bronze statue in the world and depicts one of the most famous photographs in history-that of the six brave men raising the American flag at the top of Mount Surabachi on the Island of Iwo Jima, Japan during WW II. Over one hundred students and chaperones piled off the buses and headed towards the memorial. I noticed a solitary figure at the base of the statue, and as I got closer he asked, "What's your name and where are you guys from?

I told him that my name was Michael Powers and that we were from Clinton, Wisconsin.

"Hey, I'm a Cheesehead, too! Come gather around Cheeseheads, and I will tell you a story."

James Bradley just happened to be in Washington, D.C. to speak at the memorial the following day. He was there that night to say good-night to his dad, who had previously passed away, but whose image is part of the statue. He was just about to leave when he saw the buses pull up. I videotaped him as he spoke to us, and received his permission to share what he said from my videotape. It is one thing to tour the incredible monuments filled with history in Washington, D.C. but it is quite another to get the kind of insight we received that night. When all had gathered around he reverently began to speak. Here are his words from that night:

"My name is James Bradley and I'm from Antigo, Wisconsin. My dad is on that statue, and I just wrote a book called Flags of Our Fathers which is #5 on the New York Times Best Seller list right now. It is the story of the six boys you see behind me. Six boys raised the flag. The first guy putting the pole in the ground is Harlon Block. Harlon was an all-state football player. He enlisted in the Marine Corps with all the senior members of his football team. They were off to play another type of game, a game called "War." But it didn't turn out to be a game. Harlon, at the age of twenty-one, died with his intestines in his hands. I don't say that to gross you out; I say that because there are generals who stand in front of this statue and talk about the glory of war. You guys need to know that most of the boys in Iwo Jima were seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen years old.

(He pointed to the statue)

You see this next guy? That's Rene Gagnon from New Hampshire. If you took Rene's helmet off at the moment this photo was taken, and looked in the webbing of that helmet, you would find a photograph. A photograph of his girlfriend. Rene put that in there for protection, because he was scared. He was eighteen years old. Boys won the battle of Iwo Jima. Boys. Not old men.

The next guy here, the third guy in this tableau, was Sergeant Mike Strank. Mike is my hero. He was the hero of all these guys. They called him the "old man" because he was so old. He was already twenty-four. When Mike would motivate his boys in training camp, he didn't say, "Let's go kill the enemy" or "Let's die for our country." He knew he was talking to little boys. Instead he would say, "You do what I say, and I'll get you home to your mothers."

The last guy on this side of the statue is Ira Hayes, a Pima Indian from Arizona. Ira Hayes walked off Iwo Jima. He went into the White House with my dad. President Truman told him, "You're a hero." He told reporters, "How can I feel like a hero when 250 of my buddies hit the island with me and only twenty-seven of us walked off alive?"

So you take your class at school. 250 of you spending a year together having fun, doing everything together. Then all 250 of you hit the beach, but only twenty-seven of your classmates walk off alive. That was Ira Hayes. He had images of horror in his mind. Ira Hayes died dead drunk, face down at the age of thirty-two, ten years after this picture was taken.

The next guy, going around the statue, is Franklin Sousley from Hilltop, Kentucky, a fun-lovin' hillbilly boy. His best friend, who is now 70, told me, "Yeah, you know, we took two cows up on the porch of the Hilltop General Store. Then we strung wire across the stairs so the cows couldn't get down. Then we fed them Epson salts. Those cows crapped all night."

Yes, he was a fun-lovin' hillbilly boy. Franklin died on Iwo Jima at the age of nineteen. When the telegram came to tell his mother that he was dead, it went to the Hilltop General Store. A barefoot boy ran that telegram up to his mother's farm. The neighbors could hear her scream all night and into the morning. The neighbors lived a quarter of a mile away.

The next guy, as we continue to go around the statue, is my dad, John Bradley from Antigo, Wisconsin, where I was raised. My dad lived until 1994, but he would never give interviews. When Walter Kronkite's producers, or the New York Times would call, we were trained as little kids to say, "No, I'm sorry sir, my dad's not here. He is in Canada fishing. No, there is no phone there, sir. No, we don't know when he is coming back."

My dad never fished or even went to Canada. Usually he was sitting right there at the table eating his Campbell's soup, but we had to tell the press that he was out fishing. He didn't want to talk to the press. You see, my dad didn't see himself as a hero. Everyone thinks these guys are heroes, 'cause they are in a photo and a monument. My dad knew better. He was a medic. John Bradley from Wisconsin was a caregiver. In Iwo Jima he probably held over 200 boys as they died, and when boys died in Iwo Jima, they writhed and screamed in pain.

When I was a little boy, my third grade teacher told me that my dad was a hero. When I went home and told my dad that, he looked at me and said, "I want you always to remember that the heroes of Iwo Jima are the guys who did not come back. DID NOT come back."

So that's the story about six nice young boys. Three died on Iwo Jima, and three came back as national heroes. Overall, 7000 boys died on Iwo Jima in the worst battle in the history of the Marine Corps. My voice is giving out, so I will end here. Thank you for your time."

Suddenly the monument wasn't just a big old piece of metal with a flag sticking out of the top. It came to life before our eyes with the heartfelt words of a son who did indeed have a father who was a hero. Maybe not a hero in his own eyes, but a hero nonetheless.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:53:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:53:44 AM EDT

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:54:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



And the youth of today rears it's stupid head......



calm down. i was joking/trying to ruffle your feathers. i know that they were marines, and i know that they deserve all the credit they got. i respect them highly.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:54:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?




Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:02:07 AM EDT
It makes me grateful as hell that I can sleep in peace at night because brave men like this have fought and died for over 200 years defending our freedom. It's because of men like this that some cult in Kansas can show up at military funerals and protest their asses off. Kind of a catch 22 isn't it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:02:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:03:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 8:11:26 AM EDT by Lester_Burnham]
tag for home.

ETA: My grandfather was on the USS New York at Iwo.



New York sailed 21 November for the West Coast, arriving San Pedro 6 December for gunnery training in preparation for amphibious operations. She departed San Pedro l2 January 1945, called at Pearl Harbor, and was diverted to Eniwetok to survey screw damage. Nevertheless, despite impaired speed, she joined the Iwo Jima assault force in rehearsals at Saipan. She sailed well ahead of the main body to join in pre-invasion bombardment at Iwo Jima 16 February. During the next three days, she fired more rounds than any other ship present; and, as if to show what an old-timer could do, made a spectacular direct 14"-hit on an enemy ammunition dump.


Leaving Iwo Jima, New York at last repaired her propellers at Manus, and had speed restored for the assault on Okinawa, which she reached 27 March 1945 to begin 76 consecutive days of action. She fired pre-invasion and diversionary bombardments, covered landings, and gave days and nights of close support to troops advancing ashore. She did not go unscathed; a kamikaze grazed her 14 April, demolishing her spotting plane on its catapult. She left Okinawa 11 June to regun at Pearl Harbor.




I have some of his pictures, I believe I have some of the plane damaged by the kamikaze if anyone is interested. Apparently they also cared for some of the Marine casualties from Iwo as well.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:04:33 AM EDT
Those are better men than I...........
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:04:37 AM EDT
Wow Lupey, great post.

Rene Gagnon's wife was interviewed on ?Chronicle? recently, if I remember correctly.

Thanks,
Cheesebeast
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:12:15 AM EDT
My Dad's Uncle was a Marine Corps Capt. and was KIA 2 days after this picture was taken. He went throughout the Pacific and Iwo was his last stop . He rests in Hawaii with many other brave men. It is a diferent world because of them.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:20:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stevieh46360:
It makes me grateful as hell that I can sleep in peace at night because brave men like this have fought and died for over 200 years defending our freedom. It's because of men like this that some cult in Kansas can show up at military funerals and protest their asses off. Kind of a catch 22 isn't it.

Whats even worse, is that when you take the oath joining the military, you give up most of your constitutional rights, the very ones you just took an oath to protect.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:29:41 AM EDT
The saddest thing is that there will only be a handfull of teachers in America
today that will show that picture to their classes and discuss this history
making achievement and what "the greatest generation" sacrificed for us.



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:31:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 8:32:09 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By Lupey:
Each year my video production company is hired to go to Washington, D.C. with the eighth grade class from Clinton, Wisconsin where I grew up, to videotape their trip. I greatly enjoy visiting our nation's capitol, and each year I take some special memories back with me. This fall's trip was especially memorable.
...



Incredible story, you are a luck man to have been there at that time.

Thank you for sharing.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:31:28 AM EDT
Semper Fi Devil Dawgs!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:32:50 AM EDT
"a US Marine Corps for the next 500 years"
Adm "Bull" Halsey
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:34:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



No they were not in the Army. I think most of them were U.S. Marines.

I think one was a navy doc



Correct.
Read "Flags of Our Father's" for the full, and sad, story.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:45:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
The saddest thing is that there will only be a handfull of teachers in America
today that will show that picture to their classes and discuss this history
making achievement and what "the greatest generation" sacrificed for us.






But THANKFULLY places exist, like arfcom, where even adults can receive a remedial education about such matters.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:11:00 AM EDT
I am thankfull that "Flags of our Fathers" was written, I have this photo prominantly displayed because I feel that this is not just the flag of our fathers, but of ours also (even with 2 new stars). I was disapointed to detect a note of cultural liberalism in from the outhor...another son (as are many of us) who are tainted by the disease that threatens to bring down our country...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:01:40 AM EDT
worthy of note...BTT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:11:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
6 of those men died within 3 days of that photo. God speed



I think your math is off, isn't there only six guys in the picture?





Maybe he meant 3 men died within 6 days? Lexdixia is a bitch.


In any case, those were real men, in a real war. I wish we could fight a war like that against the ROP.


........So our children wouldn't have to..
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:17:03 AM EDT
Semper Fi.....

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:28:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackbag223:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By blackbag223:
no i didnt.

are those guys in the army or something?



And the youth of today rears it's stupid head......



calm down. i was joking/trying to ruffle your feathers. i know that they were marines, and i know that they deserve all the credit they got. i respect them highly.



As you gain age and experience, you will learn that this is ONE subject that is out of bounds. Don't make fun of Marines and Iwo Jima...and NEVER confuse Marines with soldiers.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:31:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 10:32:04 AM EDT by LoginName]

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
The saddest thing is that there will only be a handfull of teachers in America
today that will show that picture to their classes and discuss this history
making achievement and what "the greatest generation" sacrificed for us.






Lets see them do this in school nowadays...

Back when I was in the 5th-6th grade (around 1968 or so), my class put on a school play for Memorial Day.

In one of the scenes, the curtain opened and there were 6 students posed "Raising the Flag" (costumes/uniforms were a mish-mosh of WWII gear and uniforms collected from attics, relatives, etc).

In front of them myself and about a half-dozen boys dressed in our cubscout uniforms were kneeling down placing wreaths on grave markers, while off to the side a girl in the class recited "In Flanders Fields".

"In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch, be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields".


The real kicker for some here is that this was in a MA public school.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:32:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:40:39 AM EDT


and



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:57:10 AM EDT
My uncle was there- a machine gunner Amfib. Track, 11th Amfib. Battalion-attached to the 5th div.
He came in on the second wave, and stayed there for over 30 days! He's still alive, and to this day, he hasn't said a whole lot about it. So much history in that generation.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:00:29 AM EDT
I have an original 1945 Detroit News front page picture of the flag raising (colorized).

It was my uncle's and his parents (living in Detroit at the time) saved it for their son who was fighting on Iwo with the 26th Marines, 5th Marine Division. I have it framed hanging on the wall of my office and I am looking at it now as I type this and thinking of my uncle and those other brave men who fought on that piece of hell in the Pacific.

That little piece of newspaper is priceless to me.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:01:22 AM EDT
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