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Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:13:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Romeo Oscar Tango Charlie at U Miami.

It works just like a fraternity: social development, friends for life, professional training, career opportunities, and good times

AND I GET PAID TO DO IT

Not to mention that there is no ass paddling, metrosexualism, paying for your friends, and getting laughed at by everyone else on campus.

Frat guys live in their own little world where they dont know that NOBODY else on campus respect them.  Frats are a joke.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:17:28 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:


Frat guys live in their own little world where they dont know that NOBODY else on campus respect them.  Frats are a joke.



Kind of like the Air Force if you ask me.  
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:17:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Kappa Alpha Order, Spring 89

If you go to a large university, fraternities are the only way to roll.

If you go to quaint college, well then you can probably just hang with the handful of people there.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:18:38 AM EDT
[#4]
ATO (Alpha Tau Omega), Iota Xi chapter, UB....

Like Researcher, one of the best things ever in my life.

A ton of fun, lots of parties, lots of women. We had an annual T&G every fall semester (Tequila and Goldfish Party).

HUGE!

Two cases of tequila, probably 20 kegs, and 1000 goldfish. Nothing left of any the next day. Man, everyone at UB looked forward to T&G, we had so many people you couldn't believe it....

I was Pledgemaster one semester...that was a lot of fun too!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:18:42 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
Romeo Oscar Tango Charlie at U Miami.

It works just like a fraternity: social development, friends for life, professional training, career opportunities, and good times

AND I GET PAID TO DO IT

Not to mention that there is no ass paddling, metrosexualism, paying for your friends, and getting laughed at by everyone else on campus.

Frat guys live in their own little world where they dont know that NOBODY else on campus respect them.  Frats are a joke.



How about the people that are ROTC and in fraternities?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:18:48 AM EDT
[#6]
ΘΞ, ΓΠ, #17
Theta Xi Fraternity, Gamme Pi Chapter, Scroll #17

It was a good group of guys who hung with you when you needed them.  And we drank like fish.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:18:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Sigma Phi Epsilon '95 OSU

I love to see people get all bent out of shape about frats. It makes me want to put on my letters again and fuck your girlfriend.  Jealous you don't have big parties, hang out with the top 20% of the best looking girls on campus, socialize with cool people, and network for nice jobs after school is over?

Get a life losers, quit burying yourself in your dorm room on a Friday night eating ramen noodles and masturbating to you computer.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:19:43 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
Down at SIUC we used to call Greek row "Geek Row"



Same here.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:21:21 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Tagged....

To see who got "paddled" and who didn't


Joke guys...just a joke....




I still have my paddle PM...wanna see it?  



Lemme get my microscope.....
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:22:05 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Sigma Pi



I’m an asshole - I’m an asshole,
I'm an asshole by and by
But I’d rather be an asshole –
Than a GODDAMN SIGMA PI!!



lol

Delta Gamma Iota, Beta Chapter '95
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:22:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Sigma Pi - Beta Eta Chapter.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:30:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:31:36 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Sigma Pi



Same here, Alpha Chapter, Vincennes U, Fall 87.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:32:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Tau Kappa Epsilon--(TKE)--Xi Omega Chapter--Alpha Omega pledge class--VPI '89-'93

If you think Greeks are Geeks, you should have heard our war chant (the way we started football and water polo games.)


Born on a mountaintop, raised by a bear
I've got a double set of jaw teeth, a double set of hair
I've got a cast iron stomach, I've got a nine inch rod,
I'm a mean motherfucker, I'm a Teke by God....



YITB,
#405
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:33:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Dam if there aint a few Sigma Pi's here.  

And we used to sing the same song, but about the Sigma Nu's!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:36:37 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Now, now.  Just because they wouldnt take you doesnt mean you have to attack them.



Be nice.


While some people sure can be hostile towards frats, there certainly also are a lot of the fraternity members who seem to be VERY DEFENSIVE as well.   (not you - but certainly some others in this thread).  I'm sure it's nice for the defensive ones to convince themselves that other's couldn't get in, or were just jealous, or whatever - but a lot of people just don't care about being in a social club/fraternity during their college days.  I'm sure it was a great experience for a lot of people who joined fraternities, but that doesn't mean that others somehow missed out on something.

For example, when I started college, I had just finished active duty and had commanded my own infantry platoon - and had no interest in joining a fraternity, since I would be plenty busy finishing my undergraduate degree in 3 years, ranked at the top of my class.




Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:46:00 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
Beta Theta Pi,  M.I.T. We made Playboy's #7 top party school in 89



pfft.  

Paraphrased quote from Playboy in reference to Michigan State University:
"They were not listed because we no longer thought it was fair to include professionals among a list of amateurs."

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:52:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Sigma Chi.

Never thought I would join a fraternity, and downright hated "frat boys" my first semester. I went through rush just to get all the free food, but ended up joining because the guys at Sigma Chi were like the guys I hang out with anyway.

Haters imagine fraternities as a bunch of retarded, collar popping, abercrombie wearing, conformist fags, but that's not always the case. Fraternities were founded upon lofty values, and luckily, not all of them have forgotten them for the sake of partying and seeing boobies.



Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:14:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Sigma Tau Gamma

NWMSU Maryville, MO
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:46:04 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
Sigma Chi.

Never thought I would join a fraternity, and downright hated "frat boys" my first semester. I went through rush just to get all the free food, but ended up joining because the guys at Sigma Chi were like the guys I hang out with anyway.

Haters imagine fraternities as a bunch of retarded, collar popping, abercrombie wearing, conformist fags, but that's not always the case. Fraternities were founded upon lofty values, and luckily, not all of them have forgotten them for the sake of partying and seeing boobies.






Sigma Chi, Epsilon Phi 86

My fraternity brothers are still my closest friends.  I still reap benefits from brothers in the "REAL" world.  I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Tom Selleck, David Letterman, And John Wayne are members...

And lotsa boobies!!!!!

In Hoc
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:49:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Phi Delta Theta, Texas Gamma chapter.

neil armstrong, frank lloyd wright, and james baker III are a few notable members of my fraternity.  
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:52:07 AM EDT
[#22]
I thought about joining one, but there was no way I was going to submit to any sort of hazing activities.  
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:06:30 AM EDT
[#23]
I belonged to the Semper Fi fraternity over at USMC.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:15:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Ronald Reagan was a TKE I believe.

GWB and Bush Senior were also in fraternities.

In fact most of the Presidents have been one.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Alpha Tau Omega , Delta Delta chapter, The Azure and the Gold

UNH

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:33:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:34:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Alpha Chi Sigma, Sigma Chapter

Not sure if it counts since is was a professional fraternity (kicked out of the greek system by the supreme court).  We did have a very nice house though, and it was Co-ed (again thanks to the supreme court).
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:45:16 PM EDT
[#28]
We seem to do this every 6 months or so and it always turns into a Greek-bashing thread for the "I don't have to buy my friends" crowd. (Surprising that old chestnut hasn't popped up yet...)

Sad, IMHO.    

You did (or will) or you didn't (or won't) - most folks really don't care that much.  Those who didn't have no idea what they missed (good or bad) and those who did usually carry very fond, personal memories from the experience, which is why they can be defensive about it.  It does surprise me somewhat that those who didn't harbor such vitriol that they feel the need to post derisive comments in a thread that has literally nothing to do with them, but then again I'm often surprised at some of the things said here...

I did, FWIW - big fraternity at a big "party school."  It wasn't the end-all, be-all that some make it out to be, but it was a lot of fun (almost too much fun, but that's another [long] story ).


FWIW (for those with Archive access):

May 2005 - 3 whole responses before a generalized insult...

Sept. 2004 - only 1 this time...

Feb. 2004...

Just a quick search/small sample, but you can see how they usually go.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:04:08 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
Beta Theta Pi,  M.I.T. We made Playboy's #7 top party school in 89



Beta Theta Pi - EKU 03

A small list of Betas:
Sam Walton, Missouri ’40 (dec.) Founder, Wal-Mart
Senator Richard G. Lugar, Denison ’54 Indiana
Representative Richard A. Gephardt, Northwestern ’62
Joseph M Allbaugh, Oklahoma State ’74 Director, Federal Emergency Management Agency
Michael J. Schmidt, Ohio ’71Hall of Fame/548 home runs
John R. Wooden, Purdue ’32 (ret.) UCLA Coach (10 National Titles)
Joseph P. Allen IV, DePauw ’59 Astronaut/Space Flight Executive
Stephen D. Bechtel Sr., Calif. ’23 (dec.) Chairman & CEO, Bechtel Group
William J. Bowerman, Oregon ’33 Founder, Nike
Harry R. (Bob) Haldeman, UCLA ’48 (dec.) Former President Nixon’s Chief of Staff
Hugh L. McColl Jr., North Carolina ’57 CEO, Bank of America
Frank A. Shrontz, Idaho ’53 Chairman/Emeritus and CEO, The Boeing Corp.

etc.

We are not all drunkards.


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:08:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Nah, my friends are free.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:13:35 PM EDT
[#31]
"Founding Father" of Delta Omega Chi at my old school.  Also, an honorary member of Aplha Epsilon Pi due to significant volunteer work with getting their house started.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:12:59 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
Ronald Reagan was a TKE I believe.





Yep, he was. Maybe you've heard of some of these other famous Tekes....


Conrad M. Hilton (Alpha-Omicron)
Founder of Hilton Hotels

Edward C. Droste (Epsilon)
Co-Founder of Hooters

Charles R. Walgreen, Jr (Upsilon)
Chairman of Walgreen Drugs

Robert L. "Bob" Barr, Jr. (Beta-Sigma)
U.S. Congressman

Terry P. Bradshaw (Beta-Zeta)
NFL Star and TV Analyst

Merv Griffin (Gamma-Delta)
Entertainer and TV Personality

Les Paul (Gamma-Delta)
Inventor of the Electric Guitar

Willie Nelson (Nu-Xi)                      That's right Willie freakin Nelson!!!!
Country Music Songwriter and Singer

Roy K. Flint (Omega)
Dean, U.S. Military Academy at West Point


and, above all others, the King, baby, the King was a Teke....


Elvis Presley (Beta-Psi)
Entertainer, Singer, and Actor

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:30:23 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:


................................................Elvis Presley (Beta-Psi)
Entertainer, Singer, and Actor





Say what? Where did he go to college? I never heard that.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:44:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Well, as long as we're name-dropping famous/successful alumni...


Alben Barkley (Emory University, 1900) Vice President of the United States (1949 53); U.S. House of Representatives (1913 27); Senator from Kentucky (1927 49, 1955 56)

Melvin Belli (University of California, 1929) Nationally known attorney from the 1940's to the early 1990's; known as "The King of Torts"

James Blanchard (Michigan State University, 1964) Ambassador to Canada (1993 96) Governor of Michigan (1983 91); U.S. House of Representatives (1975 83)

William Brennan (University of Pennsylvania, 1928) Supreme Court Justice (1956 90)

Hank Brown (University of Colorado, 1961) Senator from Colorado (1990 96); U. S. House of Representatives (1980 90); current president, University of Northern Colorado

Tom Carper (Ohio State University, 1968) Senator from Delaware (2001 to present); Governor of Delaware (1993 2001); U.S. House of Representatives (1983 93)

Tom Clark (University of Texas, 1922) Supreme Court Justice (1949 67); U.S. Attorney General (1945 49)

Ramsey Clark (University of Texas, 1951) U.S. Attorney General (1967 69)

Marlin Fitzwater (Kansas State University, 1964) Press secretary for Presidents Reagan (1987 89) and Bush (1989 93)

Ernest Fletcher (University of Kentucky, 1974) U.S. House of Representative from Kentucky (1998 to 2004). Current governor of the state of Kentucky

Brad Henry (University of Oklahoma, 1985) current governor of Oklahoma

Tim Johnson (University of South Dakota, 1969) Senator from South Dakota (1997 to present); U.S. House of Representatives (1987 97)

Donald Pease (Ohio University, 1953) U.S. House of Representatives (1977 93)

Bill Richardson (Tufts University, 1970) U.S. Secretary of Energy (1998 2000); Ambassador to United Nations (2001); U.S. House of Representatives (1983 97); current governor of New Mexico

Paul Ryan (Miami University, 1992) U.S. House of Representative from Wisconsin (1998 to present)

John Snow (Kenyon College, 1961) U.S. Secretary of Treasury (2002-present)

Henry Wallace (Iowa State University, 1910) Vice President of the United States (1941 45); U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (1933 40); U.S. Secretary of Commerce (1945 46)

James Mann (Illinois); Republican leader in the US House during the late 1890s; sponsored the Mann Act.

Thomas Cruikshank (University of Texas, 1955) Chairman, CEO, Halliburton Companies

Richard Farmer (Miami University, 1956) Chairman, Cintas

Jack Laughery (University of Iowa, 1957) Chairman, Hardee's Restaurants

John Ludington (Albion College, 1951) Chairman, Dow Corning

Gary Michael (University of Idaho, 1962) Chairman, Albertson's

Ronald McDougall (University of Wisconsin, 1964) President, Chili's, Inc.

Jerry Riedel    Vice Chairman, Anheuser Busch

Myron Ullman (University of Cincinnati, 1969) Chairman, Macy's

Richard Wagoner (Duke University, 1975) CEO of General Motors

Dan Abrams (Duke University, 1988) NBC chief legal correspondent and host of "The Abrams Report" on MSNBC.

Winston Groom (University of Alabama, 1965) Author of FORREST GUMP and other novels  (my school/chapter )

Roger Mudd (Washington & Lee University, 1950) Former TV new anchor and documentary show host

Duane Allen (Texas A & M at Commerce) Vocalist with "The Oak Ridge Boys"

Peter Buck (Emory University, 1979) Lead guitarist with "R.E.M."

Drew Carey (Kent State University, 1979) TV star, co producer of "The Drew Carey Show" and "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"

Will Ferrell (University of Southern California, 1990) Co star on "Saturday Night Live" (1995 2002) and film actor

Frederic Forrest (Texas Christian University, 1959) Film & TV actor; Oscar Award nominee

Matthew McConaughey (University of Texas, 1992) Film actor ("A Time to Kill", "U 571", "Frailty")

Jim Nabors (University of Alabama, 1951) TV actor and singer; best known for "Gomer Pyle" and "The Jim Nabors Show"  (my school/chapter )

Pat O'Brien (University of South Dakota, 1970) Co host of TV's "Access Hollywood"; also Olympics TV host

David Schwimmer (Northwestern University, 1988) TV co star on "Friends" (1994 to present) and film actor

John Elway (Stanford University, 1983) 16-year NFL quarterback with Denver Broncos; Super Bowl MVP; Heisman Trophy runner up

Jim Plunkett (Stanford University, 1970) Heisman Trophy winner 1970; Super Bowl MVP; 13 year NFL quarterback

Mark Rypien (Washington State University, 1985) Super Bowl MVP; 12- year NFL quarterback

John Lynch (Stanford University, 1993) All NFL safety with Denver Broncos

Jon Ritchie (Stanford University, 1998) Fullback with the Oakland Raiders

Mike Mussina (Stanford University, 1991) Pitcher with Baltimore Orioles and New York Yankees

Ed Sprague (Stanford University, 1989) 12 year major league infielder; Olympic Gold Medal winner

Rick Helling (Stanford University, 1994) Pitcher with Texas Rangers and Arizona Diamondbacks

Kyle Rote, Jr. (University of the South, 1972) First American-born pro soccer star; three-time winner of ABC TV's "Superstars" competition; sports agent

All Delts.

www.delts.org/index.aspx
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:44:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Sigma Alpha Epsilon.


Quoted:
We GDI guys used to make fun of you guys.



No problem - the GDIs went back and whacked it alone in their dorm rooms while I sampled the Sorority Pie.  And you wouldn't believe the pie!!!  It was a target rich environment.  Some of the best were "Exchanges" which were basically one fraternity and one sorority together for a big party.  Boy/Girl ratio just about 1:1, everyone is in a good mood, and if your g/f wasn't in that sorority then she couldn't come to the party no matter what.  Sorry, sweetheart, rules are rules.

One of my favorites was the "Two Yard Party."  The fraternity hosted the party and bought all the refreshments.  The sorority girls were responsible for the clothing.  We paired up each guy with a girl a few days ahead of time by picking names out of a hat, and each girl was given 2 yards of fabric, out of which she had to make clothing for the both of them.  The costumes were really skimpy and not very sturdy.  Most outfits didn't last through to the end of the party.  In the morning there were bodies and bits of fabric everywhere.

One of my own creations was "Kamakaze Madness" where we mixed up Kamakazes in 5 gallon water bottles and dispensed them from a water cooler.  We would go through 4 or 5 bottles during the night.  w00t!!

Also, if you ever got in trouble - stranded, car broke down, had no money, got arrested, had no food, whatever - you could mobilize about 60 guys to come to the rescue with one, single phone call.  You were never going to be left out in the cold.  I remember many times being at the fraternity when a call for help would come in, and it looked like the Cannonball as 6 or 8 carloads full of guys would rush to the stranded brother's location.  Talk about the cavalry arriving!!

And did I mention the pie?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:53:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Never took much notice of the frat lifestyle in college, but being 40+ yo now,  I will make an observation...

2 35+ yo guys that were frat brothers in college, are room-mates in the townhouse across the street (renters, of course), still clinging to the frat-boy lifestyle...

It is pretty sad to see people that age still trying to party-on, dude
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:55:54 PM EDT
[#37]
between the USMC-R and the Lacrosse team i had the "fraternal brotherhood" box checked without having to pay a bunch of fags to be my friends. i never met a frat boy in college who didnt need a foot in his ass.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:59:03 PM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:
between the USMC-R and the Lacrosse team i had the "fraternal brotherhood" box checked without having to pay a bunch of fags to be my friends. i never met a frat boy in college who didnt need a foot in his ass.



wow, a lax player calling frat boys fags.

now I've heard it all
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:00:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Alpha Gamma Omega, but I vaped out before going active. My GPA wasn't up to snuff after my initiation, so I couldn't become active...then I got kicked out of school.  Not my finest hour.

No keggers or sleeping around with hot sluts, it's a Christian Fraternity.  Just about everything else about fraternity life was the same though.  I wouldn't have thought this going in, but we were suprisingly popular with the ladies on campus, and though our parties were dry there was always a good turnout.  Since we didn't have to spend the money on booze we could spend it on good local bands.  Usually the neighbors on either side of our house would be invited over and they'd host the keggers at their places and the entertainment would be at our place.  Worked out pretty well actually.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:05:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Phi Delta Theta Arizona Gamma

I joined after a stint in the military as some of the guys were really cool and we had alot of fun.  As a fraternity we never did any of the stupid shit you hear about; we just focused on partying and women.

One thing we used to always do is the weekend before finals we would all tote our weapons out into the forest and go shoot all day.  Between like 5 of us we had 20 plus guns and so everyone would just go buy ammo and shoot whatever they wanted for as long as they wanted.  Of course there was drama but there was drama in all the other peoples circles i knew that were not in a fraternity.

I partyed with everyone and had a good time and am glad i did it or else i feel college wouldnt have quite been as much fun as it was.  I know one thing, it sure did bring in alot more pussy then what i could have met elsewhere.  So all in all a good time.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:09:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Alpha Theta Pi.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:25:46 PM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:

I joined after a stint in the military as some of the guys were really cool and we had alot of fun.  As a fraternity we never did any of the stupid shit you hear about; we just focused on partying and women.




I don't mean to mock, but I found that slightly ironic and funny.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:41:00 PM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:


................................................Elvis Presley (Beta-Psi)
Entertainer, Singer, and Actor





Say what? Where did he go to college? I never heard that.





I'm sure it was honorary, but hey, he was still the King!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:43:11 PM EDT
[#44]
my first college, St. Mary's in South Bend, IN, is a small women's college--we ARE the sorority

when i returned to college at UNC-Asheville, i was invited repeatedly to join a small sorority, Alpha Phi

they never did understand my loyalty to SMC and why i didnt want to be Greek--i respected their decision and was good friends with many of them, but it was sometimes a "thing"    

*shrug*


Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:47:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Sure, I love paying for my friends!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:48:01 PM EDT
[#46]
I do not mean to urinate on anyones frat but who is willing to list all the successful people who were NOT in a frat in school?

Think the list would be longer? as distingushed?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:51:29 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
I do not mean to urinate on anyones frat but who is willing to list all the successful people who were NOT in a frat in school?

Think the list would be longer? as distingushed?



+1, as if this gives some credibility for being in a fraternity.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:51:57 PM EDT
[#48]
current member of Sigma Phi Epsilon: Ohio Upsilon @ John Carroll University

We just chartered last April, it was a BLAST


It has been an amazing experience, those who think of animal house are either A) at the wrong school where the greek system is indeed pathetic, or B) too ignorant to understand what life-long benefits the experience can bring.

its about brotherhood, and if you dont understand what that is, you shouldn't be opening your mouth.

thank god you didn't call it a frat.

SigEp has been the fraternity of firsts for many issues: we also have a no hazing policy (not to say there arent things the new members "have" to do that are absolutely hilarious, etc.       but there's no elephant walks ( you are crouched down and grab the guys junk in front of you, the guy behind you grabs yours, like elephants in a parade) or running around with a grape between your ass cheeks, and the first person to drop theirs eats everyone elses.  the latter of which actually happened in one group that got booted from our school my first year here.

I havent been as involved as i would like with the double major in Biology and Chemistry and the Biochemistry/Molecular Bio. concentration, but it has still been one of the best things i've ever experienced.

Damn Proud.  
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:00:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Kappa Sigma, Chi chapter.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:01:08 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Beta Theta Pi,  M.I.T. We made Playboy's #7 top party school in 89



pfft.  

Paraphrased quote from Playboy in reference to Michigan State University:
"They were not listed because we no longer thought it was fair to include professionals among a list of amateurs."




I think the reference was for a different school    ,  don't quite remember which one though.  
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