Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/22/2006 7:33:39 PM EDT

Both me and my roommate are religious people, we have both been saved and are Christians. I go to church weekly, but I probably don’t read my Bible enough. Anyway, tonight I was finishing up the paperwork needed to send off for my Florida out-of-state concealed carry permit when my roommate who considers himself a moderate started asking me questions about CC. When the questions started he was simply asking if the permit will be similar to a driver’s license, but the questions quickly escaladed into where I plan on carrying. When I told him where I could and couldn’t carry and the consequences of carrying in some off limit places he asked why anyone would carry in a church.

When we got to talking about carrying in church I remembered something I saw on ARFcom about a church getting held up during a service, so I pulled it up and showed him the news clip wjz.com/local/local_story_003083229.html. His response is what would you do if you were carrying a gun while this was happening. I told him that due to people being everywhere and the chance of hitting a bystander is so great that unless the situation was “ideal”, or he came in guns blazing dropping people, I probably would not do anything. I explained to him that that was just speculation and that I would only know when the time came.

His response was why would I shoot/kill someone when one of the 10 commandments specifically tells us not to kill and he proceeded to tell me that if I killed someone I would go to hell. His girlfriend was sitting there the whole conversation and I asked him what he would do if someone was directly threatening his girlfriend or his family’s life. To my surprise he said that he would not kill that person because he doesn’t want to disobey God’s word and that if that person killed his girlfriend or his mother he would try to help him find God and be saved. I was shocked, I didn’t know what to say or how to rebuttal, I just wanted to call him a selfish moron.

If you know of any Bible verses that I could show him that would help him understand that it is ok to defend your family and friends please let me know. Unfortunately, I couldn’t think of any off of the top of my head.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:36:24 PM EDT
i'm not religious or anything, but i think it was Jesus that said "if you don't have a sword, sell your garment and buy one"


something like that anyway.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:36:59 PM EDT
Do him and the world a favor and euthanize him.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:37:30 PM EDT
tell him, correctly, that the 6th commandment is actually "thou shall not murder", and there is a difference between killing and murder.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:38:18 PM EDT
Evil flourishes when good men do nothing. You are just the Shepard protecting the Sheep(le).

How anyone could stand idly by and let a loved one (or an innocent stranger for that matter) be murdered by a criminal is beyond me. My sense is I would feel compelled to get as far away from that person as I could.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:38:40 PM EDT
Should have walked over to the girlfriend and started kissing her. Wonder what his reaction would have been then?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:38:59 PM EDT
..and David shouldn't have killed Goliath.

Riiiiiiiight.

HH
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:41:52 PM EDT
I am a agnostic but i did go to catholic school for 13 years it was explained to me this way
your life is a precious gift from god and if another person tries to take your life or the life of another it is your duty to defend yourself and others otherwise you show contempt for that gift and refusing to defend yourself is the same as suicide and you all know what happens to suicides according to the church
The other person showed contempt for that gift by attempting to take your life or other and in turn showed contempt for his own life
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 7:47:22 PM EDT by Jerad]

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
..and David shouldn't have killed Goliath.

Riiiiiiiight.

HH



Yea I know, it's common since stuff, but apparently he doesn’t believe it. Normally this guy is the most level headed guy around my house, that is why tonight when he said that my jaw about hit the floor.


your life is a precious gift from god and if another person tries to take your life or the life of another it is your duty to defend yourself and others otherwise you show contempt for that gift and refusing to defend yourself is the same as suicide and you all know what happens to suicides according to the church
The other person showed contempt for that gift by attempting to take your life or other and in turn showed contempt for his own life



Good point, I'll see what he has to say about that.

Nice Avi. Boondock Saints is a bad ass movie!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:46:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 7:51:08 PM EDT by ORinTX]
My mother is a mennonite and raised me as such.

My father is an atheist gun owner.

Mennonites are pure pacifists. I remember when I was young, discussing this concept with my mom. I couldn't believe that she wouldn't kill to defend her own life.

I asked her if she'd kill to defend mine (I was 10 or so at the time) and she said she wouldn't.

It was then that I realized how crazy that whole concept was -- I knew it was instinct for any mother to protect her children, and I knew she was either completely brainwashed or in reality instincts would have prevailed.

Needless to say, my father and I understand each other better. He's always encouraged me to own guns and be prepared to defend myself.

The whole time, my mother has been protected by guns because my father owns them and would even carry in the vehicle, particularly on vacation. She had the luxury of being "pacifist" because my dad was prepared to do the dirty work for her.

ETA: Ask your roommate if he thinks his mother would have killed to protect him. I'd honestly like to know.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:47:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I am a agnostic but i did go to catholic school for 13 years it was explained to me this way
your life is a precious gift from god and if another person tries to take your life or the life of another it is your duty to defend yourself and others otherwise you show contempt for that gift and refusing to defend yourself is the same as suicide and you all know what happens to suicides according to the church
The other person showed contempt for that gift by attempting to take your life or other and in turn showed contempt for his own life




I like that.

And if we all stood by and did nothing when evil people did evil things there would be no one else left. Just evil. And Satan will have won. So in reality he is misguidedly aiding and abetting Satan.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:48:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:48:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:50:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jerad:

If you know of any Bible verses that I could show him that would help him understand that it is ok to defend your family and friends please let me know.



(1) The entire Old Testament.
(2) In the New Testament, it is quite clear that the Disciples are armed, as would any traveling group in that time period. When the Sanhidran comes to get Christ to crucify him, several of his companions draw their swords and one strikes off the ear of an assailant. Considering that you cannot conceal a sword, Christ would have known his companions were carrying and was apparently o.k. with that. In addition, there is a passage in one of the Gospels (I forget which one) where Christ says he who doesn't have a sword should sell his cloak and purchase one.
(3) In another Gospel passage, a Roman legionary asks Christ to heal his family. Christ offers to come to his home, whereupon the soldier says "If you say it is done, it is done." Christ praises this man's faith and does not condemn him for being a soldier.
(4) No where in the Bible is there any condemnation of self-defense, or capital punishment, or service in the military. Christ does say to turn the other cheek, but that is about revenge and not about self-defense or bringing someone to justice.
(5) The commandment is not "Thou shalt not kill" but "Thou shalt not murder" according to the newer translations. Murder is UNLAWFUL killing and does not include self-defense or execution of just laws. His position is based upon an old mistranslation.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:50:30 PM EDT
He who sheddeth the blood of man, so by man shall his blood be shed. -Genesis 9:6
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:50:34 PM EDT
Everytime you typed something he said all I could see was "Baaaaahhh, Baaaaaahhh".

Buy him a T-shirt that says "victim" on it. Eventually he'll need it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:51:16 PM EDT
He's lying.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:51:56 PM EDT
You know, one never knows how they are going to respond at the moment of truth. The biggest boasters often become the biggest cowards.

That said, I think it's scary to actually THINK of being a coward ahead of time.

My mother (rest her soul) brought me into this world. I'd have assaulted Omaha Beach all by myself to protect her. I honestly don't understand how your friend can "think" the way he does.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:52:06 PM EDT
A communist once told me the same thing.

I didn't believe him.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:54:27 PM EDT
Years ago I was posed the same ? by a Church going friend, we were new christians, and he was one of the zealot all or nothing kind of JJs And he said it was wrong to kill. After knowing him for three years, I was not supprised when he got caught banging two different women in the church. He was a control freak, and a manipulative ladysman.

The comandment against murder is against murder. Not against self defence.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:54:45 PM EDT
Who the fuck is your roommate to determine who is going to hell? He is a coward.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:11:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WaMag:
Should have walked over to the girlfriend and started kissing her. Wonder what his reaction would have been then?


Why, he would have killed Jerad, of course! Or engaged in a satanic 3some. Toss up as to which. Murder or 3some, either way the girlfriend would have found it HOT.

On a serious note, my ex-wife was like that. Claimed she wouldn't be able to shoot someone who was trying to rape and/or kill her. She wasn't religious she was just a friggin' moonbat.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:15:43 PM EDT
For my mother?
I wouldn't pull trigger on someone.


I'm going for slidelock.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:17:21 PM EDT
Your roommate is a fag.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:19:16 PM EDT
Try this one on him:

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:23:58 PM EDT
There are simply no biblical prohibitions against defending yourself or the lives of others. "Turning the other cheek" applies to insults and behavior, not to those who would harm to you and your loved ones...
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:29:14 PM EDT
The roommate is a good guy who's a little confused; hopefully I'll be able to help him decide that he jumped to conclusions. Keep the ideas comming and I'll read them in the AM, but for now I'm out.

Jerad
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:32:31 PM EDT
I don't know what to say except don't befriend flaming liberal douchebags.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:26:16 PM EDT
i have given considerable thought to the subject of armed self defense--particularly since i became a father. i despise the thoughts of killing for killing's sake, but if someone were to endanger or threaten the life of my mother, wife, daughter, son etc. i wouldn't hesitate to intervene with EXTREME prejudice. i had suspected it for quite some time, but the second i saw my newborn baby son i knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that i could/would easily kill another human.

i am a nut about security, i'm overprotective and i'm heavily armed
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:28:31 PM EDT
I would shoot a badguy to save YOUR mother, let alone mine.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:29:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:30:08 PM EDT by Melvinator2k0]
I am 99% sure that if he was in the situation, he would do the oppisite of what he said.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:42:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:47:17 PM EDT by Mister44]
Wow. Maybe he should have taken a few courses somewhere.

God doesnt say do not "kill". He says do not "murder".

God INSTRUCTS the killing of sinners in Leveticus.

In a bit more modern of times - well roman times. How did Christianity go from an underground, illegal, punishable by death religoin - to the official one of the Roman Empire?

Read up on Emperor Constantine. God came to him in a dream. He would award him victory over his enemies if he became a christain. The Romans are the only reason why Chritianity spread as far and as wide as it did. And the only reason Romans became Christian was because of a war - where killing was involved.

No - God doesnt want one to lay down and die. You have to protect yourself and others from evil.

Your friends point of view sounds more Bhuddist if you ask me.

ETA - killing someone isnt a one way ticket to hell. Gods forgiveness is infinate. You may remember the whole Jesus on the cross thing.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:43:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I would shoot a badguy to save YOUR mother, let alone mine.



Hell, i'd kill any badguy to save any woman, if she is good looking enough
Top Top