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Posted: 2/22/2006 11:36:47 AM EDT
I currently have a National and it's getting way too small. I'm in the market for a new larger safe. I like my National alot, but it appears National is not in business anymore. Who should I look at?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:48:08 AM EDT
TTT Im in the market as well.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:49:38 AM EDT
I bought a Champion and I am very happy with it.

Good price with reasonable security and fire protection.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:52:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:54:08 AM EDT
Liberty Safes has a line called National Security, or some such....

Is it the same?

I like my Liberty, and I like the bigger models they offered too.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:57:09 AM EDT
I am calling these guys today. I am going to price out a custom one.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:12:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 12:23:35 PM EDT by NewbHunter]
Depends on how much you're willing to spend.

Be careful, because many of the well known brand names out there mostly make boxes that aren't considered a true safe according to Underwriter's Laboratory. And the ones that are truly considered safes are usually quite overpriced compared to some lesser known names that make better products. In order to be considered a safe, a box needs to achieve at least a TL-15 security rating by Underwriter's Laboratory.

American Security makes one gun safe that is considered a true safe according to UL testing. It is the RF6528. Compare it's specifications with the other typical name brand safe's ratings...hmmmm...

If you want to look at a really nice true UL approved safe another one is Graffunder Safes. You'll pay a pretty penny, but they will blow away probably anything you've considered.

Personally, I can't justify spending that much on a safe right now, so I'm seriously considering the Amsec BF6030. For the money it will still beat out a lot of the safes that are typical in the big box stores.

I suggest if you're really serious about getting a safe that you go to the UL website and do some research on safe testing. Then compare that with what some of the different manufacturers do. Many of them don't even have their safes UL tested. They are factory tested. Factory testing is not an unbiased test IMHO. Personally, I would not trust a very valuable gun collection and other valuables to something that wasn't UL approved.

Also, if you have any insurance on your collection make sure you check out the fine print of your policy. Some of them require a UL approved TL-15 safe or better.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:15:10 PM EDT
I've got a Sportsman Steel Safe. Decent for the price. Wish I would have bought a Liberty. I think the fit and finish of a Liberty is the best.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
Depends on how much you're willing to spend.

Be careful, because many of the well known brand names out there mostly make boxes that aren't considered a true safe according to Underwriter's Laboratory. And the ones that are truly considered safes are usually quite overpriced compared to some lesser known names that make better products. In order to be considered a safe, a boxs needs to achieve at least a TL-15 security rating by Underwriter's Laboratory.

American Security makes one gun safe that is considered a true safe according to UL testing. It is the RF6528. Compare it's specifications with the other typical name brand safe's ratings...hmmmm...

If you want to look at a really nice true UL approved safe another one is Graffunder Safes. You'll pay a pretty penny, but they will blow away probably anything you've considered.

Personally, I can't justify spending that much on a safe right now. I'm seriously considering the Amsec BF6030. For the money it will still beat out a lot of the safes that are typical in the big box stores.

I suggest if you're really serious about getting a safe that you go to the UL website and do some research on safe testing. Then compare that with what some of the different manufacturer's do. Many of them don't even have their safes UL tested. They are factory tested. Factory testing is not an unbiased test IMHO. Personally, I would not trust a very valuable gun collection and other valuables to something that wasn't UL approved.

Also, if you have any insurance on your collection make sure you check out the fine print of your policy. Some of them require a UL approved TL-15 safe or better.



thanks for the post. Very helpful.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:18:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Liberty Safes has a line called National Security, or some such....

Is it the same?




Yes. National Security was bought out by Liberty.

I had a National Security, and in terms of quality, they are the best I've seen overall, but they are NOT cheap!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:38:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
Depends on how much you're willing to spend.

Be careful, because many of the well known brand names out there mostly make boxes that aren't considered a true safe according to Underwriter's Laboratory. And the ones that are truly considered safes are usually quite overpriced compared to some lesser known names that make better products. In order to be considered a safe, a box needs to achieve at least a TL-15 security rating by Underwriter's Laboratory.

American Security makes one gun safe that is considered a true safe according to UL testing. It is the RF6528. Compare it's specifications with the other typical name brand safe's ratings...hmmmm...

If you want to look at a really nice true UL approved safe another one is Graffunder Safes. You'll pay a pretty penny, but they will blow away probably anything you've considered.

Personally, I can't justify spending that much on a safe right now, so I'm seriously considering the Amsec BF6030. For the money it will still beat out a lot of the safes that are typical in the big box stores.

I suggest if you're really serious about getting a safe that you go to the UL website and do some research on safe testing. Then compare that with what some of the different manufacturers do. Many of them don't even have their safes UL tested. They are factory tested. Factory testing is not an unbiased test IMHO. Personally, I would not trust a very valuable gun collection and other valuables to something that wasn't UL approved.

Also, if you have any insurance on your collection make sure you check out the fine print of your policy. Some of them require a UL approved TL-15 safe or better.




Great info!! Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 12:51:52 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
The UL site is a pain in the ass to navigate, maybe I need to get used to it.

Liberty claims they are UL listed on several components per safe. I don't see AMSEC or Liberty, or National Security fire proof rating though.

How do I find those?

I see AMSEC and Liberty listed in Residential Security Container listings...

I didn't see anything under TL-15 for ANYTHING...no gun safes, no nothing....

Damn the web designer for that site should be shot.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:57:51 PM EDT
Ft. Knox
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:58:57 PM EDT
Heritage makes a good product.

Max
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:01:19 PM EDT
Link

OK...I'm looking at the BF7240 American Security safe. They offer the safe with two options for "gun capacity":

1. 12-18-24-30-42
2. 58 Gun


What is the difference between option 1 and option 2?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:08:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
Link

OK...I'm looking at the BF7240 American Security safe. They offer the safe with two options for "gun capacity":

1. 12-18-24-30-42
2. 58 Gun

What is the difference between option 1 and option 2?



Most likely the shelving configuration on the sides. Some are "permanent" shelves and some are user configurable.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:12:51 PM EDT
I have an AMSEC RF6528, which is a TL30 rated gun safe. It was over $4,000 to get it put in, but let me say this: I sleep well at night. The safe weighs 3,400 pounds and has the most massive door you've ever seen. Nobody short of the pink panther is breaking into that thing.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 1:17:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
The UL site is a pain in the ass to navigate, maybe I need to get used to it.

Liberty claims they are UL listed on several components per safe. I don't see AMSEC or Liberty, or National Security fire proof rating though.

How do I find those?

I see AMSEC and Liberty listed in Residential Security Container listings...

I didn't see anything under TL-15 for ANYTHING...no gun safes, no nothing....

Damn the web designer for that site should be shot.



The safe needs to be completely UL listed. It doesn't do much good if the lock is UL listed, but the box is not.

That being said, I understand completely about the UL site . I'm not sure what's up with that.

Usually I look at the manufacturer's site. They will say if a safe is UL listed. For instance on AMSEC's site, they list the BF series as RSC rated. The only true safe rated one is the RF6528. That one is TL-30.

RSC is one step below TL-15, however I personally looked at the safe at SHOT show and unlike many safes on the market they use almost 2" of poured concrete between an outer layer of 10gauge steel and an inner layer of steel. This seems much better to me for fire and theft than 10-12gauge steel outer wall with just a layer or two of drywall inside and maybe an inner layer of steel.

So, even though it's not a true TL-15 rated or better it looks much nicer than a lot of safes out there for the money. I believe that the fire rating on the BF series is not a UL rating, but I can't be sure since the UL website sucks. Bottom line is that if you have the cash you might as well make sure it's at least TL-15 because that will be sure to have the theft and fire ratings tested by UL.

I'm certainly not an expert. If you want to talk to a guy that really seems to know his stuff, go over the The High Road and contact the guy with a screen name CB900F. He deals in the Graffunder safes and all the safes he carries are at least TL-15 rated. They aren't cheap though, not by any means.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:13:51 AM EDT
tagging this thread, because it's useful.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:26:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By purplecheese:
I bought a Champion and I am very happy with it.

Good price with reasonable security and fire protection.



and great customer service
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:35:18 AM EDT
I highly recommend Cannon
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:37:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:46:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 6:57:03 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Paul:
If you'd do the research you'll find that about 95% of the safes under 2500 pounds are all 10 gauge welded steel walls with some sort of door that is thicker and stronger than the 10 guage steel walls. Nobody picks the locks - nobody prys the doors off of these things as the walls are the weak spot. If you want 1/4" steel you're talking big bucks and huge weight loads. Most homes will not support such loading - these things have to go to the slab.



Yep, you are exactly right. A true safe will have plate steel walls and be extremely heavy, not the bent sheet metal walls.

However, the one thing I do like about the Amsec BF series is that, if you are on a relative budget like I am, even though the outer wall is only 10 gauge steel it has about 1.75" of concrete on the other side that someone would still have to hack through and then another layer of sheet metal. Total wall thickness is 2". They call the concrete they use "drylight" and I'm guessing that it must have some gypsum mixed in to make it a little lighter than concrete, but I looked at samples of it at SHOT show and it certainly looks a lot harder to cut through then a couple layers of "fireboard" aka drywall. In fact it really didn't look or feel any different than regular concrete.

But of course for a true safe you want plate steel walls, not the bent sheet metal.

I have a little funny saying about safes. If it's not a true safe you have to bolt it to a concrete slab floor to keep the safe from going anywhere. If it's a true safe, you bolt the concrete slab floor to the safe to make sure the slab doesn't go anywhere.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:46:33 AM EDT
CANNON!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:55:43 AM EDT
Amsec, hands down.
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