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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:58:18 PM EDT
Anybody here heard of Corey Maye?

The Volokh Conspiracy reports thusly:


According to Maye's testimony at trial, as reported in the Hattiesburg American on Jaunary 23, 2004, Maye had no idea that the people breaking in to his apartment were cops, and shot the intruder to protect his young daughter:
Cory Maye, 23, said he was asleep on a chair in the living room of his Prentiss apartment as his 14-month-old daughter slept in the bedroom when he heard a loud crash at his front door.
"I immediately ran to my daughter's room, got a pistol, put in a magazine and chambered a round," said Maye, who is on trial for capital murder in Marion County. "As I laid on the floor by the bed, I heard kicks at the back door. I was frightened, I thought someone was trying to break in on me and my daughter."
Maye testified that it was dark in his apartment when he heard someone breaking into the back door, which was located in the bedroom.
"That's when I fired the shots," Maye said. "After I fired the shots, I heard them yell 'police! police!' Once I heard them, I put the weapon down and slid it away. I did not know they were police officers."



This is an exceprted quote, you would be wise to go and read the whole article. Pretty disturbing stuff, and the kind of thing we talk and rage and yell at each other about all the time.

The War On Some Drugs is taking this nation down the slippery slope to totalitarianism - and it's only gonna get worse because of the War On Terror.

Too bad we can't have a War On Illegal Immigration.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:01:33 PM EDT
He should never have been arrested.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:07:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoGop:
He should never have been arrested.



they should probably yell "POLICE" before they start breaking down doors...DOH
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:12:51 PM EDT
tagged for later reading
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:16:02 PM EDT
No Knock warrants are a plague on this society.

The idea that surprise somehow mitigates risk and preserves evidence is based on the assumption of competent due process and policing. All too often, those assumptions turn out to be totally incorrect and turn everyone involved into a victim.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:19:22 PM EDT
Only reason I see for a no knock warrant is if somoen's life is believed to be in imminent danger.

Other than that, if they flush the weed down the toilet while you're knocking on the door, tough shit.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:20:00 PM EDT
WOW
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:20:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Only reason I see for a no knock warrant is if somoen's life is believed to be in imminent danger.

Other than that, if they flush the weed down the toilet while you're knocking on the door, tough shit.



yup, its the cops fault for taking too long to breach....
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:22:50 PM EDT
2 pages then a lock......
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:26:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:

Originally Posted By bastiat:
Only reason I see for a no knock warrant is if somoen's life is believed to be in imminent danger.

Other than that, if they flush the weed down the toilet while you're knocking on the door, tough shit.



yup, its the cops fault for taking too long to breach....



Not to mention hitting the wrong residence... Walking across an uncleared door… Not having good cover… Being Barney F’n Fife
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:26:20 PM EDT
Do a Google search for Cory Maye for more info, sounds like a really bad deal in the Deep South...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:26:36 PM EDT
Easy solution, but one entirely inimical to the interests of the JBTs:


(1)No evidence recovered or observed in the execution of any search or arrest warrant shall be admissible on behalf of the Government in any criminal prosecution or civil action unless the entry of law enforcement officers or agents to the premises shall have been visually and audibly recorded for a period beginning not less than 90 seconds before entry and continuing for at least 5 minutes thereafter, and such recording shall have been presented to the trier of fact; in the absence of such recordings, every inference in favor of the occupant(s) of the premises shall be conclusively indulged.

(2) In any action brought by any occupant of premises entered by law enforcement officers or agents in the execution of any search or arrest warrant, the failure of the Government to produce and present to the trier of fact a visual and audible record of events at the premises beginning not less than 90 seconds before entry and continuing for at least 5 minutes thereafter shall require that every inference in favor of the occupant(s) of the premises be conclusively indulged.

(3) In every action, civil or criminal, involving the execution of a search or arrest warrant, the burden shall be upon the Government to prove beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt that entry to the premises wherein any evidence was seized or observed was made lawfully; every presumption contrary to the position of the Government shall be indulged.



I realize this will never become law, largely because it would complicate the efforts of the government to prevent people from doing as they please and supplying others with the means to do as they please, but if freedom were of any interest to anyone, such a law might prove useful.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 10:28:29 PM EDT
Don't you know police are better people than the rest of us?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:06:24 PM EDT
Why did he stop shooting? Just because they were cops?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:09:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sd_Kfz_182:
Why did he stop shooting? Just because they were cops?

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:09:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sd_Kfz_182:
Why did he stop shooting? Just because they were cops?



Apparently. the facts are in evidence. What isn't in evidence is a clear record of the timeline, the intent, the legality of their actions, the apparent lack of ten brain cells on the jury, an ounce of decency in the prosecutors office, a judge with half his brain, etc.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:11:10 PM EDT
In before the JBTA vs JBT...oh hell....
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:12:38 PM EDT
Hell even a few theives can yell "police, police"
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:28:16 PM EDT
Its kind of bullshit that the burden of proof in a no knock situation is on the home resident. Like stated above anyone can yell POLICE. How i am supposed to know that the people kicking my door in yelling POLICE are actually what they claim. It wasnt to long ago when there was a home invasion by people pretending to be police/bail enforcement agents and they ended up killing the people who lived in the house.

This has been said before many times but i think it is worth repeating. Its sad that our troops overseas fighting terrorists have stricter rules of engagement than the police "protecting" the citizens do at home.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:33:01 PM EDT
Are we going to go through this again? This case was just ran into the damn ground about a month ago on here.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:35:15 PM EDT
Did the dog survive?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:41:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
No Knock warrants are a plague on this society.

The idea that surprise somehow mitigates risk and preserves evidence is based on the assumption of competent due process and policing. All too often, those assumptions turn out to be totally incorrect and turn everyone involved into a victim.



Agreed.
Used far, far too often.
Publicity is the name of the game.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:42:00 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 11:45:13 PM EDT
tag.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:04:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:46:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 2:59:01 AM EDT by 1IV]
Most raids of this nature have video of the prep and execution. I doubt we are getting a ballanced view of how it went down from the webpage provided.
Google is your friend. They try to make it sound like he was inanother 1/2 of the duplex. He was in the right house being raided, and his girlfriend was a drug dealer. Admittedly acording to testimony. He hid in ambush in a back room after police began clearing the house. He hid with his daughter to protect her? I dont draw fire to my kids. He had time to load and chamber, the cops were yelling police! .... Nawwww he is terminaly stupid. I dont buy the story he is selling. Especialy when the supporters bring in the whole Tookie Williams supporters.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:18:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By GoGop:
He should never have been arrested fired before he was sure of his target.


Fixed. The Four Rules will save you no end of heartache and incarceration.



What he said.

And this blog entry is way slanted one way. Would like to see a REAL report of what happened.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:36:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:

Originally Posted By GoGop:
He should never have been arrested.



they should probably yell "POLICE" before they start breaking down doors...DOH



They do. But crooks have selective hearing.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:38:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
He was in the right house being raided, and his girlfriend was a drug dealer. Admittedly acording to testimony. He hid in ambush in a back room after police began clearing the house. He hid with his daughter to protect her?




No, he stores his guns in his daughter's room.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:40:50 AM EDT

if they flush the weed down the toilet...

If there is enough drugs to justify a no-knock raid, then there's no way to flush that much down a toilet in that short of a period of time. The "flush" justification cops give for no knocks is BS.z
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:43:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By GoGop:
He should never have been arrested fired before he was sure of his target.


Fixed. The Four Rules will save you no end of heartache and incarceration.



...

so now before I lawfully defend my home, I need to make sure the scumbag kicking in the door doesn't happen to be a cop at the wrong address?

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:48:23 AM EDT



i've read about this before. don't know if i have 100% of the facts, but of the facts i have, it seems this guy is getting a pretty raw deal.


Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:48:36 AM EDT
I tried Google to find a REAL newspaper article on this and all I could find was blog crap. But I was able to piece somethings together from what I found.

A warrant was obtained for his apartment and the apartment next door in this duplex. The officer who was shot did not even have his gun drawn when he was shot. The perp shot the officer three times with a stolen .380 handgun. Two rounds hit his vest the third his stomach area which killed the officer. A small amount of pot was found in his apartment and more in the other apartment.

Apparently the GF was dealing out her apartment and the other apartment was used for the main stash. The trial was moved to a neighboring county. Where a jury of 10 whites and 2 blacks took 5 hours to convict him and chose the death penalty.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:49:31 AM EDT
I have a question.

In this type of drug warrant situation, why don't the police arrest the perp OUTSIDE the home and then serve search warrant when the house is clear?

It seems like this would be a safer option for cops and citizens than storming the fort.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:51:55 AM EDT
did they find what they were looking for?

if not, bad for the cops.. if so, i dont feal so bad 4 the guy..
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:52:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:53:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I tried Google to find a REAL newspaper article on this and all I could find was blog crap. But I was able to piece somethings together from what I found.

A warrant was obtained for his apartment and the apartment next door in this duplex. The officer who was shot did not even have his gun drawn when he was shot. The perp shot the officer three times with a stolen .380 handgun. Two rounds hit his vest the third his stomach area which killed the officer. A small amount of pot was found in his apartment and more in the other apartment.

Apparently the GF was dealing out her apartment and the other apartment was used for the main stash. The trial was moved to a neighboring county. Where a jury of 10 whites and 2 blacks took 5 hours to convict him and chose the death penalty.



Oh the pain.. factual data, omg!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:53:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:02:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I tried Google to find a REAL newspaper article on this and all I could find was blog crap. But I was able to piece somethings together from what I found.

A warrant was obtained for his apartment and the apartment next door in this duplex. The officer who was shot did not even have his gun drawn when he was shot. The perp shot the officer three times with a stolen .380 handgun. Two rounds hit his vest the third his stomach area which killed the officer. A small amount of pot was found in his apartment and more in the other apartment.

Apparently the GF was dealing out her apartment and the other apartment was used for the main stash. The trial was moved to a neighboring county. Where a jury of 10 whites and 2 blacks took 5 hours to convict him and chose the death penalty.




Yeah, I got all stirred up over this a while back but some details later made it pretty fishy. The jury was there and I wasn't so it's hard to second-guess them.


Still, unless the guy is a ruthless cold-blooded cop-killer and they did clearly ID themselves..... would it perhaps have saved the officers life if he IDed himself before busting through the door? I mean I know a criminal can yell that just as well as the police, but I'm willing to take a split second to evaluate that with what I see if I hear it. Just come busting into my house and running at me, and it may all end badly for everyone that day.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:04:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By GoGop:
He should never have been arrested fired before he was sure of his target.


Fixed. The Four Rules will save you no end of heartache and incarceration.



Let me preface this by saying I have no knowledge of the facts of this particular case, and we don't have a complete story, whether newspaper article or other. So, my comment is solely of a general nature responding to the "police" identification, and being sure of the target.

1. As another poster said, thieves can yell "police", and I'll bet they will start doing it more, particularly in the (popular here in FL, anyway) home invasion robbery. As an aside, a home invasion and associated tactics would be used if the thieves expected someone to be home. COnsider those implications.

2. One can buy sets of coveralls with "POLICE" on the back at any number of supply stores. Interestingly, this is an unintended consequence of police militarization, and all of them wanting to have SWAT type gear. It would be somewhat more difficult to buy the old style police uniform than some generic coveralls.

3. So, at night, a bunch of guys comes running in. After about three cases reported in the newspaper of robbers wearing police "uniforms", you can see guys in police coveralls. Doesn't do a lot of good if you guess wrong. If they are thieves, you are dead.

Returning somewhat to this case, a lot depends on the individual's guilty knowledge or lack threof. If you are running a drug operation, well you'll probably shoot anyone who comes through the door; and it almost sounds like this case may be such a situation (caveat here). But, how about someone who doesn't run drugs or commit any other crimes? The police have to be more sure of their targets, too. The idea of just getting on your knees in front of them, or prostrate - the symbolism of all that is truly interesting - is unacceptable. It is an indicator of simple arrogance, normal in Roman times, but not acceptable here.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:09:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:10:04 AM EDT by glock23carry]
Ban Freedom. Do it for the votes.

G
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:10:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I tried Google to find a REAL newspaper article on this and all I could find was blog crap. But I was able to piece somethings together from what I found.

A warrant was obtained for his apartment and the apartment next door in this duplex. The officer who was shot did not even have his gun drawn when he was shot. The perp shot the officer three times with a stolen .380 handgun. Two rounds hit his vest the third his stomach area which killed the officer. A small amount of pot was found in his apartment and more in the other apartment.

Apparently the GF was dealing out her apartment and the other apartment was used for the main stash. The trial was moved to a neighboring county. Where a jury of 10 whites and 2 blacks took 5 hours to convict him and chose the death penalty.




Yeah, I got all stirred up over this a while back but some details later made it pretty fishy. The jury was there and I wasn't so it's hard to second-guess them.


Still, unless the guy is a ruthless cold-blooded cop-killer and they did clearly ID themselves..... would it perhaps have saved the officers life if he IDed himself before busting through the door? I mean I know a criminal can yell that just as well as the police, but I'm willing to take a split second to evaluate that with what I see if I hear it. Just come busting into my house and running at me, and it may all end badly for everyone that day.



Well according to what I read the defense side says they did not announce they were police and the police said they did announce. But I have a hard time believing a jury would take that little time to convict and vote on the death penalty if the evidence against him was not very good.

I looked through 15+ pages of google and could not find a REAL article on this shooting. The vast majority was just cop bashing blogs that left a lot of the details out.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:10:29 AM EDT

Did he see what he was shooting at, or just fire blindly?

If he looked before shooting, could he even tell they were cops? In the two raids I've seen locally, the cops were dressed like thugs. They were wearing blue jeans, t-shirts, and black vests. They were not wearing uniforms. The back of the vest said police on it, but you can't see that from the front. So even if the guy did look before he pulled the trigger, how is he supposed to know they're cops?z
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:14:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:15:17 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]
ugh
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:

if they flush the weed down the toilet...

If there is enough drugs to justify a no-knock raid, then there's no way to flush that much down a toilet in that short of a period of time. The "flush" justification cops give for no knocks is BS.z



Quantity or type of contraband has little to do with justifying a no knock. Knock & Notice Vs. No Knock is based on how likely the suspect is to resort to violence, not the type of contraband or quantity of contraband.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:18:49 AM EDT
Well considering that there is no reason for cops to be knocking down my door, I think I'll start shooting if something like this ever happens to me. If I get a cop...sorry, but they don't have any reason to be there.

I'm not getting shot by some thug losers pretending to be cops because I sit there while they're knocking down the door and waiting until they all get inside to determine if they are in fact cops or not.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:22:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:28:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:36:42 AM EDT by rjroberts]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
2. One can buy sets of coveralls with "POLICE" on the back at any number of supply stores. Interestingly, this is an unintended consequence of police militarization, and all of them wanting to have SWAT type gear. It would be somewhat more difficult to buy the old style police uniform than some generic coveralls.




Originally Posted By zoom:
If he looked before shooting, could he even tell they were cops? In the two raids I've seen locally, the cops were dressed like thugs. They were wearing blue jeans, t-shirts, and black vests. They were not wearing uniforms. The back of the vest said police on it, but you can't see that from the front. So even if the guy did look before he pulled the trigger, how is he supposed to know they're cops?z


Reading is fundamental here, gents. The officer that Maye shot was in uniform. Not street thug undercover wear; not coveralls; not BDUs or a nomex raid suit. The officer Maye shot was also emptyhanded. His weapon was still in the holster.

Always be sure of your target and what's beyond it.



AS you say, referring to the 2. paragraph you cited, reading is fundamental. So, please read the preface clearly stated in my post before accusing me of not being able to read.

As in: "Let me preface this by saying I have no knowledge of the facts of this particular case, and we don't have a complete story, whether newspaper article or other. So, my comment is solely of a general nature responding to the "police" identification, and being sure of the target."
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:34:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By zoom:

if they flush the weed down the toilet...

If there is enough drugs to justify a no-knock raid, then there's no way to flush that much down a toilet in that short of a period of time. The "flush" justification cops give for no knocks is BS.z



Quantity or type of contraband has little to do with justifying a no knock. Knock & Notice Vs. No Knock is based on how likely the suspect is to resort to violence, not the type of contraband or quantity of contraband.



Interesting re: the contraband not being the issue determining the type of entry. Is that the law that a judge must follow when authorizing the warrant, or just a policy? Curious.

An amusing side story relating to contraband. What the East German ("good old" cold war days) STASI (State Security, that is, secret police) used to do when they suspected an agent was to put a block on the sewer junction down the street from his residence, or in the basement of the apt. house. Then, if the guy flushed anything it would fall right into their hands - not literally, but recoverable: nasty, but some drying got the evidence). There was some talk of them wiring a toilet so that if he flushed it, the electrical signal would close the valve without attendance: never saw that, so I can't confirm.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:35:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
2. One can buy sets of coveralls with "POLICE" on the back at any number of supply stores. Interestingly, this is an unintended consequence of police militarization, and all of them wanting to have SWAT type gear. It would be somewhat more difficult to buy the old style police uniform than some generic coveralls.




Originally Posted By zoom:
If he looked before shooting, could he even tell they were cops? In the two raids I've seen locally, the cops were dressed like thugs. They were wearing blue jeans, t-shirts, and black vests. They were not wearing uniforms. The back of the vest said police on it, but you can't see that from the front. So even if the guy did look before he pulled the trigger, how is he supposed to know they're cops?z


Reading is fundamental here, gents. The officer that Maye shot was in uniform. Not street thug undercover wear; not coveralls; not BDUs or a nomex raid suit. The officer Maye shot was also emptyhanded. His weapon was still in the holster.

Always be sure of your target and what's beyond it.





That's not always material to self-defense inside a home in many states.

In general I agree. Unless I have reason to think otherwise quickly I'm going to have to give some benifit of the doubt to uniformed police officers even if I have no reason to expect them there. However, if it starts becoming common for criminals to have uniforms for home invasions then my stance is going to change on that.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:39:14 AM EDT
I searched Yahoo also and all I can find is nothing but cop bashing, racist blog crap.

Anybody else have any luck on finding REAL info on this case?
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