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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:38:46 PM EDT
I posted this in the Arizona forum, but I am quite upset and felt I needed a larger response!

Last Friday I purchased an M4A2 AR-15 for $1100 including taxes. The store I dealt with was nice and some of the staff were friendly. Over the weekend I came across an AK on the equipment exchange. I spoke with the FFL selling it and told him I would check for a good transfer price. He was kind and held the weapon until I could find a good dealer.

Naturally, I went back to the store I got the AR from. I spoke with the same gentleman that I bought the AR from. He said I would have to speak with the manager in order to reduce the FFL transfer fee which was $50.

Today, I went to speak with the manager. I explained to him that I already did business with his store and that I was wondering if he could reduce the fee or even eliminate it. He blatantly said he could not and explained to me he had employees to pay and lots of paperwork to complete. I realized that he needs to make a profit in order to stay open, but I checked from a few sources in regards to the profit he made on me already. He most likely made $300 on me in profit. I explained this to him and he simply shrugged his shoulders and said "Sorry."

I think he was overcharging me on the transfer fee. A couple of Arfcommers said that they would not charge more than $20-$25. If it was you, wouldn't you like to build a strong clientele. I don't think he really cared!

Please tell me I'm wrong or that I am right for being angry!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:42:33 PM EDT
Shop with your feet. I personally wouldnt go back.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:45:36 PM EDT
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:47:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH



Bingo.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:47:53 PM EDT
If you're in Tucson:
Was this perhaps, at jensens or west of the pecos? Ive used Murphy's and Centerfire for transfers, they both charge $35.
If you're not in tucson, disregard.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:48:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH



That wasn't my point! I am never going back there. I just felt he was rude and that he was being greedy.

It just sucked; that's all!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:49:55 PM EDT
I only pay $10
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:50:17 PM EDT

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:52:45 PM EDT
My FFL charges $15. I wouldn't pay more than $30 without really shopping around.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:53:25 PM EDT
Out my way most gun store owners are dicks. That price is to high. Here in NH, I've dealt as low as $10 and as high as $35. Last two transfers were $20. Find a good FFL and he will never let you down
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.



Read the rest of my post. He made around $300 in profit off me already. It's not like that would've been putting him in the RED.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:21 PM EDT
SteyAug may have a countering viewpoint incoming...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:54:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:01:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH



That wasn't my point! I am never going back there. I just felt he was rude and that he was being greedy.

It just sucked; that's all!


Whats this "greedy" BS? Why do you feel its necessary to begrudge a profit, rent, insurance, utilities, business license fees, taxes and other expenses a businessman has to bear?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:04:02 PM EDT
my dealer does transfers for 20-25 each but the bigger spenders in there like me usualy get em for 10 for all
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:05:19 PM EDT
There are two things to consider when dealing with a local gun dealer, value and service. If you get an average deal and average service then by all means look around. A transfer for $50 is steep but common. Did you get good service from the dealer when you purchasing your AR? From the sound of your conversation you had with him it sounded like he just treated you more like a sale than a good customer. In that case I would find someone else. Now if during the time he was selling you the AR he went out of his way to explain things and spent a lot of time catering to your needs, then paying $50 for a high level of customer service is warranted because you know he will take care of you. The call is up to on how you felt you were treated for the value you got.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:05:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
I only pay $10



Me too! And free locks.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:06:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 5:10:33 PM EDT by FLAL1A]
In my experience, $35 is what FFLs charge strangers whose looks they don't like.

ETA: I'd send him a letter explaining that his obnoxious price-gouging on the transfer was why I would never darken his door again, not even to pick up free ammo. Certainly, he's a businessman, his own master, and can do whatever he likes, including charging $450 & up for used Hi-Point pistols and $20 a box for Remington .22 lr cartridges. However, charging $50 for a transfer to a guy who just dropped a grand at his shop labels him a solid gold asshole who doesn't deserve your business.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:06:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH



That wasn't my point! I am never going back there. I just felt he was rude and that he was being greedy.

It just sucked; that's all!


Whats this "greedy" BS? Why do you feel its necessary to begrudge a profit, rent, insurance, utilities, business license fees, taxes and other expenses a businessman has to bear?



Probably because the guy was a dick with poor customer service who didn't warrant a high price for customer service. When you get a bad waiter in a restaurant do you tip 20% anyway?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.



Read the rest of my post. He made around $300 in profit off me already. It's not like that would've been putting him in the RED.



That is the idea of buisness.
To make a profit.

While I think the $50 transfer fee is high, who are you to demand that he give you a free transfer?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:11:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.



Read the rest of my post. He made around $300 in profit off me already. It's not like that would've been putting him in the RED.



That is the idea of buisness.
To make a profit.

While I think the $50 transfer fee is high, who are you to demand that he give you a free transfer?



What the hell did he "demand?" Chapter and verse, please.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:19:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.



Read the rest of my post. He made around $300 in profit off me already. It's not like that would've been putting him in the RED.



That is the idea of buisness.
To make a profit.

While I think the $50 transfer fee is high, who are you to demand that he give you a free transfer?



What the hell did he "demand?" Chapter and verse, please.



Perhaps demand was too strong a word, but the way he wrote it, it came off like he thought he deserved it.


I explained to him that I already did business with his store and that I was wondering if he could reduce the fee or even eliminate it. He blatantly said he could not and explained to me he had employees to pay and lots of paperwork to complete. I realized that he needs to make a profit in order to stay open, but I checked from a few sources in regards to the profit he made on me already. He most likely made $300 on me in profit. I explained this to him and he simply shrugged his shoulders and said "Sorry."
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
In my experience, $35 is what FFLs charge strangers whose looks they don't like.

ETA: I'd send him a letter explaining that his obnoxious price-gouging on the transfer was why I would never darken his door again, not even to pick up free ammo. Certainly, he's a businessman, his own master, and can do whatever he likes, including charging $450 & up for used Hi-Point pistols and $20 a box for Remington .22 lr cartridges. However, charging $50 for a transfer to a guy who just dropped a grand at his shop labels him a solid gold asshole who doesn't deserve your business.



Agreed.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:21:43 PM EDT
My FFL charges $10 and is real nice about it. However, I would never ask him to do a transfer on something he has in his shop. He has to make money so I have a gun shop to patronize.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:22:44 PM EDT
It's $20 around here.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:23:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

could reduce the fee or even eliminate it.


I agree with you there, 50 bucks is steep.

Now who is being greedy? FFLs have kids to feed, same as everyone else.



Read the rest of my post. He made around $300 in profit off me already. It's not like that would've been putting him in the RED.



That is the idea of buisness.
To make a profit.

While I think the $50 transfer fee is high, who are you to demand that he give you a free transfer?



What the hell did he "demand?" Chapter and verse, please.



NOTHING!!

I just wanted to know if he could work with me! I've waited tables, and I realize a profit needs to be made, but not at the expense of losing a customer. I gave my customers great service, not only for the tip but also because I wanted THEM BACK!

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:25:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By Hylton:
I only pay $10



Me too! And free locks.



Me three

If it wasn't for my friend with an FFL, $35 would be my limit for an FFL transfer. Go elsewhere. You tried explaining your case and the owner said "I could give a rat's ass."
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:25:42 PM EDT
People think that because they're on a forum that means they're in the industry and entitled to a discount or something. These same people that think FFLs owe them the world and it's naughty if someone makes money off them.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:27:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sp0rk:
People think that because they're on a forum that means they're in the industry and entitled to a discount or something. These same people that think FFLs owe them the world and it's naughty if someone makes money off them.



From this thread and most others, ~$35 seems to be the going rate for a transfer. $50 is absurd.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:33:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Originally Posted By sp0rk:
People think that because they're on a forum that means they're in the industry and entitled to a discount or something. These same people that think FFLs owe them the world and it's naughty if someone makes money off them.



From this thread and most others, ~$35 seems to be the going rate for a transfer. $50 is absurd.



It really is, except in MD.
In MD, there is special paperwork for regulated weapons (handguns, AKs, AR15s, etc)
It costs money, so $50 is the lowest I have ever heard for a transfer of a regulated weapon.
Then again, he lives in Arizona, and is prolly not burdened with such troublesome laws.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:36:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Originally Posted By sp0rk:
People think that because they're on a forum that means they're in the industry and entitled to a discount or something. These same people that think FFLs owe them the world and it's naughty if someone makes money off them.



From this thread and most others, ~$35 seems to be the going rate for a transfer. $50 is absurd.



Very true, I pay $25.00 + $10.00 for the states NICS fee.

The problem is a lot of gun dealers have little or no business sense or training. Thats whats so great about finding one that does, when you find them you can really see what jack asses the others are.

It's like having a car dealer you always go to because they take care of you. The dealer takes care of you he knows he has your business and that you will reccomend others. The goober how is charging $50.00 is gonna lose business and reccomendations.

Word of mouth is powerful stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:44:49 PM EDT
He charges $50 either because he doesn't like doing transfers but he'll do them "for a price" or because people are willing to pay him $50 to do transfers. In the first case, if no one were willing to pay the price then he wouldn't mind not getting the $50 because he'd rather not do tranfers at all, and in the second case, if no one were willing to pay the price then he'd lower the price because he wants to make easy money. In either case, he doesn't deserve $50, he doesn't have any right to it, he just wants it. Anyone willing to give it to him only encourages him to continue his policy.

GL
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:45:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:47:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.

HH



That wasn't my point! I am never going back there. I just felt he was rude and that he was being greedy.

It just sucked; that's all!



You wanted a transfer fee for little or no money and he wanted to charge you a fee to cover his overhead and make a little profit because he is running a business yet he is greedy?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:55:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By pang1179:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
Well, you really have only 2 choices:

1. Pay his fee and continue doing business with him, or,

2. Find another FFL

He has every right to charge what he wants...it's his business. You have every right to find someone else who charges less.

Pretty simple, really.HH




That wasn't my point! I am never going back there. I just felt he was rude and that he was being greedy.

It just sucked; that's all!



You wanted a transfer fee for little or no money and he wanted to charge you a fee to cover his overhead and make a little profit because he is running a business yet he is greedy?



Please read the rest of my post! He can do whatever the hell he wants to. He made a large profit on me already. I was just asking if he would be willing to compromise.

Isn't there an old saying "It never hurts to ask." I felt he was greedy; some agree and some disagree. That's life. I just wanted to vent because the guy was a jerk, greedy or not!
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:58:52 PM EDT
Ten dollars/transfer here. Sounds like a no-brainer walk.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:08:33 PM EDT
Ok, this dealer transfer thing has really got me annoyed. I agree that FFL's are allowed to charge whatever they want for a transfer. However, I don't see why they get so damn'ed annoyed over them, unless they have one of the following happening:

1. Their prices are being undercut by CDNN, or another outfit like that, and they don't want to compete
2. They are getting enough schmucks paying the high price
3. They don't want to do transfers, but will do it if payed $50 for 20 minutes of their time
4. They don't understand customer service and repeat customers

FFL's for some reason feel like they are above supply and demand. They act like if you don't buy one of their guns, and want one transfered, you are wronging them. I think about it this way. If you have good prices and good selection, I wouldn't be asking you to do a damn transfer. I don't like waiting, I don't like paying shipping, I want to buy from the shop if I can, but it's stupid to pass up a Good condition Glock for $350 when the shop wants $500 (before taxes). I'm sorry, if that same dealer had that gun for $425, I'd buy it from him, because of convienence.

There's this one shop that I buy stuff from, including guns. His prices are a little high, but he gives me better than tag prices on everything, and his "better than tag" prices are actually decent enough deals to make it worth my while (in convienance) to buy from him. If more gun dealers were like that, they might just get more happy, repeat customers. Getting the most pure profit out of one sale, will, in the long run, net you less profit. Many gun owners, at least the ones that you want, buy more than one gun. If you make an impression of being knowledgeable, friendly, and have good prices (not the best, not the worst), most people will justify a higher than CDNN price for the convience of buying from you. They know you will take care of them, and they are willing to pay for that commodity (which is what the mildly higher price is buying you....peace of mind).

So, I'd do transfers or $25 and look to see what people were transferring. Then I'd get that item in stock, and sell it for the same price as the transfer and shipping would cost the person. I bet I'd sell a bunch, just because people wouldn't have to wait for it to arrive.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:19:17 PM EDT
I'm probably wrong but I think they have to charge something,just to keep thier FFL licence!

I do a LOT of bussiness with my guy,and he allways lowers all cost to me!

I'm sure he structures his fee into the price of my buy,other wise I would say I get free transfers!!!

Bob
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:05:39 PM EDT
IMO, the key in both directions is relationships. I am a loyal customer of my "home" gunshop. I try to buy something every time I'm there, and I don't buy elsewhere unless there's a compelling reason - and that's usually bulk milsurp ammo, which they don't handle a lot anyway. I probably pay an 8% premium overall on guns and miscellanea over what I'd pay as a careful shopper (not counting my time & gas hunting down "bargains" & driving all over town to get them). OTOH, my transfers cost from $8 (NICS fee + "Catch ya next time" ) to $25, and at about lunchtime on 9-11, when there was a line at the counter, the counterman handed me a box and told me to get whatever ammo I needed, write down what I got, and settle with him later.

Being a decent human being is an excellent way of life. I don't always manage to do it, but I try.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:55:09 PM EDT
As a business owner myself I understand that I have "prices" that are set and "Customer Service Prices" If a customer calls me out to clean their condensor.. I charge 'X' amount... but If I just charged a customer for a new compressor I clean the condenser for free or if they need another item fixed I will discount it.

Now this dealer was at a junction he could have gone two ways.

1. discount the transfer fee and keep Pang1179 as a customer spending all sorts of money (After all, he just bought an AR and we all know how many friggin accessories those take or even a new upper later on)

OR

2. Stand firm on his price, NOT EVEN GET the 50.00 he wanted but lose hundreds in future sales.


a GOOD businessman would know which decision to make.
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