Bad union thread going on right now. Here  It made me wonder what the mass opinion is.

I think that unions can be a good thing, but at the same time, they can be bad.  Florida is a right to work state (no unions).  Florida's general pay sucks butthole.  With that in mind, states with unions have better pay.  Sometimes unions strike/pressure companies to do things that are childish.  Sometimes they do things that need to be done.  Personally I think unions would have a better public image if the quit striking over every little dissagreement, and try to work out their problems without resorting to a strike.  

Also, if a company hires union, then they brought the problem upon themselves.  If the company is large enough to have that problem, then they are probably large enough to deal with the problem.

The only thing about Unions I dont like, is if they strike, they all strike... No damn union will stand in the way of me making money to feed me and pay bills.

I love unions on my pizza...

Unions = Dinosaurs.
Unions = Strong Arm Tacticts.
Unions = Todays School System!
Unions = "Hey, I only have to do this amount of work and nothing more!"
Unions = Funding the Dems. Who consequently favor gun control.

I dont agree with everything they do, but im damn sure not going to quit my job. If it was only me maybe,my kids cant feed themselves.

A Union seeks to Monopolize the workforce.  A Monopoly on anything is bad, it creates an inefficient labor force.
Econ 101

Through my line of work, I've seen more unions in it for the dues then they are in it for the people they are supposed to represent.

Most municipal employees are union in Illinois, does this mean all cops and city maintence men are evil? I know of many occasions where the union stood up for employees who had been treated very unfairly by the city government.

I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental.
What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer?

Communist scum.  We live in the 21st century, companies pay decent wages to decent workers, not hiding behind the union goons.

I'll stand on my own two feet but thanks anyway.  I wouldn't go in early, stay late or go out of my way for the drunk dirtbag (that probably has seniority on me and can't be fired) next to me.  I don't look down on union guys, but I really hate hearing the "unions made this country what it is today" crap.

 Unions have kind of gone the same way as our .gov.  It was a REALLY great idea until the lust for power made it worse than not having it.  The leaders have forgotten what the REAL point was and now just serve themselves and help useless jackasses keep their jobs while the hard workers pull the load.  Most union workers are just good folks trying to make a living but their union dues are mostly just used for political clout in the demoncrap party.  

IAFF       "International Association of Fire Fighters"
Has been a great union for us but the local is only as strong as its members!!!

Quoted: I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental. What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer?

Starting pay of 35k to 42k a year, bi annual raises, quarterly bonuses, Medical that will cost me less than 18 bucks a week, dental and eyecare less than 2 bucks a week, a one time $4,000 adoption benefit, paid training, referral bonuses of 1k each, 50 bucks any time I enter new york city (not enough ), I get paid if I have to touch freight, I get paid if my truck breaks, I get paid if I have to wait to cross into Canada, free Life and AD&D insurance, free travel insurance, paid jury duty, 401k matching up to 4%, I can personally dump 50% of my pay into my 401k, EAP, free financial couseling, student loans, discounted APRs on home loans, credit union, discounted real estate agents, discounted home and auto insurance, and 6 paid holidays a year.  There are a few more like gifts for time milestones and a few others.  NO UNIONS ALLOWED.

Quoted: Unions = Dinosaurs. Unions = Strong Arm Tacticts. Unions = Todays School System! Unions = "Hey, I only have to do this amount of work and nothing more!" Unions = Funding the Dems. Who consequently favor gun control.

+1, but I'll add that I did like having the Union to back me up when I worked in a union shop. It was nice to count on equal treatment & raises, something I cannot say for my current employer. It does give the slacker POS an advantage too however..

In general, I despise them, mostly due to their political standpoints, and pressures on union members..

$.02, YMMV

Union Firefighter here.

Quoted: I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental. What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer?

Any time this question comes the union guys always come up with some variation of the same answer: "I get paid a lot". Fine, good for you.... but does that make it a good thing for the country, for the economy? How about our competitiveness in the global marketplace? Lots of people get paid well, that in and of itself doesn't mean much in the big picture.

Work in the union environment almost everyday.

I deal with environmental, health, and safety issuas as part of my job.

Union were formed in some part because of job safety.  Nowadays, they are a pain in the ass to get to follow the rules THEY WANTED TO BEGIN WITH!  

Why is it I can get Mexis to follow OSHA rules after they are told them in English and Spanish; yet American men and women, members of unions, fight me tooth and nail and even get hurt because they are "smarter" than than the rules?

Why is it when you tell a Business Agent that his men suck that he still says they are the best thing since sliced bread even though you have gone through almost 30 of his men without a good one?

Why is a guy from Manpower is better than a "union" construction worker in some cases?

Why do Business Agents sell books to non-union members as favors to get them work?

How can a 5 year apprenticeship be skipped by knowing someone in the union and them basically saying he's "OK?"

Why do unions still use physical violence as intimidators on construction sites?  

Listen, this ain't the 1950s or even 1960s.  Move on people, your belief in the worker's paradise is dead!

Same story I always post in these threads.

I used to work at a grocery store.  It was Union.

A guy showed up drunk to work(If you could call it work, he barely lifted a finger).
He got a warning.

Guy showed up to work drunk...and a hour late.
He got a warning.

Guy showed up 3 hours late....and drunk.
He was fired.

2 days later he was back at work...because the Union forced them to hire him back.


Unions...at least grocery store unions, can kiss my ass, the FOAD.  I want back the dues I was forced to pay.

My union works for me. I work for me.

Case closed.

I had my first day at WalMart today.

We watched a awesome Anti-Union video.

I smiling all the way

Quoted: Communist scum.  We live in the 21st century, companies pay decent wages to decent workers, not hiding behind the union goons.

Correct answer.

Oh and on the awesome benefits I'm getting that I posted above,  I should add, that not only am I non union.  I had absolutely no experience and the first month is training.  A free school that normally costs 5 grand.  They are covering it and paying me a total of about 700 while I'm in it.  And paying for my hotel room and meals.  Aint it grand.

Quoted: Quoted: I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental. What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer? Starting pay of 35k to 42k a year, bi annual raises, quarterly bonuses, Medical that will cost me less than 18 bucks a week, dental and eyecare less than 2 bucks a week, a one time $4,000 adoption benefit, paid training, referral bonuses of 1k each, 50 bucks any time I enter new york city (not enough ), I get paid if I have to touch freight, I get paid if my truck breaks, I get paid if I have to wait to cross into Canada, free Life and AD&D insurance, free travel insurance, paid jury duty, 401k matching up to 4%, I can personally dump 50% of my pay into my 401k, EAP, free financial couseling, student loans, discounted APRs on home loans, credit union, discounted real estate agents, discounted home and auto insurance, and 6 paid holidays a year.  There are a few more like gifts for time milestones and a few others.  NO UNIONS ALLOWED.

You left out the part about being able to rack up a 39.8 posts per day count.

My dad's union.  International Union of Operating Engineers.  They're a good union and they have a good benefits package as far as healthcare and stuff goes.  

Quoted: I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental. What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer?

1 1/2 years with company. ( Been around doing diffent things)  

(Been doing my own retirement should be able to pull $6,000 a month by the time I'm 65,)

$ 20 dollars for visit to doctor, dentist, Optical, Health Savings Account for other medical cost, education and certification paid for,  Salary so I don't punch a clock sometimes come in late sometimes leave early as I need to.

If I had small kids they have a Dependant Care Saving program. Match up to 6% of my pay into a comapny 401K program ( paid 26% on top of that last year !!!!!)  5 times my salary for life insurance, paid for.

 Get discounts that the company gets from different companies, ie: my cell phone went from $39 at month to $26 a month under company plan with 900 hrs, like I would every use that much.

Send me , when I want to go, to conferances, training etc and they pay all the cost.

Ten days paid vacation, Ten days sick leave, sick leave can accure up to 400+days.
After 10 years progress up to 4 weeks PAID vacation.
Able to move around within the company and do diferrent jobs. Pay increase around 4% a year, Bonus this years should be about $3000 dollars, Rewards for doing good things , Jackets , gloves, flashlights, nice meals , movie tickets, sporting event tickets.

Nextel phone for my own use, They pay for commuting cost.

Oh and best of all NO MONTHLY UNION DUES! I was in one for 3 years paid something like $2,300 a year had no paid vacation, sick days ( could take it but not get paid) no HSA, horrible 401K program would make something like 4% a year at best.
PUNCHED A CLOCK
Trade specific education that I would have to pay them for.
Oh yeah they had a program that the old timers voted for..... when one retired everyone paid two dollars for each retiree to get them started on their retirement


Unions have lost their way, done a good thing for this country 50+years ago and will continue to die a slow and painful death......hope you didn't put all your retirement eggs in one basket.

I skipped a job with GM because of some of the union BS.  No one likes a guy completely drunk off his ass and crapping his pants at work because he is totally FUBAR being defended.

But the union did.

Sorry, not my cup of tea.  I still deal with them but in a different matter.  

They don't like being called on the table and they still get defended but companies can put enough pressure on them to make things "right."

Is there a you in union?  Think about that?  How are those overinflated wages working out for the rest of the US workforce?

Down with the worker unions!

it the union is for the worker good. when the union runs the company bad, like UAW

We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year.
It always ends up getting someones account locked.

Quoted: A Union seeks to Monopolize the workforce.  A Monopoly on anything is bad, it creates an inefficient labor force. Econ 101

Yep

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll have 30 years this year with the carpenters union. I'm 53 years old and will have about a $3500-$4000/month+  pension when I retire at 60. I also have great health insurance including optical and dental. What kind of benefits do you have with your non-union employer? Starting pay of 35k to 42k a year, bi annual raises, quarterly bonuses, Medical that will cost me less than 18 bucks a week, dental and eyecare less than 2 bucks a week, a one time $4,000 adoption benefit, paid training, referral bonuses of 1k each, 50 bucks any time I enter new york city (not enough ), I get paid if I have to touch freight, I get paid if my truck breaks, I get paid if I have to wait to cross into Canada, free Life and AD&D insurance, free travel insurance, paid jury duty, 401k matching up to 4%, I can personally dump 50% of my pay into my 401k, EAP, free financial couseling, student loans, discounted APRs on home loans, credit union, discounted real estate agents, discounted home and auto insurance, and 6 paid holidays a year.  There are a few more like gifts for time milestones and a few others.  NO UNIONS ALLOWED. You left out the part about being able to rack up a 39.8 posts per day count.

I don't actually start with that company for about a week lol.  But since I'm only allowed to drive a certain percentage of the day, then I'll still be able to post a lot, don't worry,  I've already ordered my laptop Ya'll won't miss me

Let me say this.

Setting:

2005, south of Ft. Worth, TX

My company has a job that will last about six months.  We go into the job as our "non-union" subsidiary of our normal company.  We hire a company to provide us with Laborers rather than hiring directly from the union labor hall (as we would have done with our union based parent company).

These guys are mostly Mexicans, and all are on the legal side as far as we have investigated.  These guys are paid decent wages and receive benefits.  

Union gets word of it and can't stand it.  Calls us several times and calls main office to complain.  We ignore them.  

Then several "hired goons" arrive at the jobsite to stir up trouble.  I call sheriff's department cause that's what  I do.

We have had zero problems with worker attendance, productivity, safety, etc.

Our lawyers and company heads decide to go with the unions and cave in.  We call Labor union and tell them to send out X amount of Laborers to replace the subcontractor who has Labor onsite.

Subcontractor is pissed but understands the situation.  Union calls us back and says they cannot man the job.

Now, after severa weeks of complaints, threats, and legal action, they cannot man the job.  They don't have the man power to make things happen.

The solution is the Labor union comes out, signs up all of the Mexicans as UNION LABORERS, even some who show up just to make it on board.  Some of the new hires have no proper ID and are clearly illegals.  The union has no problem with this and is happy that out of their pay, dues will be paid.

So the next time some union hack tells you that illegals are taking their jobs, tell them that they are right becuase the unions are more than happy to take illegals and make them dues paying union members!

Unions are an awesome concept.  

Unions had a place in this world.

But now, Unions are more corrupt than the businesses they are in.

BTW... it is my opinion that "Union Craftsmanship" is an oxymoron.  A big one.

I worked side by side with union boys while I was in college.  I have never since then seen as many lazy SOB in one place talking about "who owes them what" and seeing first hand at how a 15 minute break turns into 30 minutes with the "prepare to take break", and "prepare to get back to work" preperations.  Pathetic.

IMO, unions in their present form do nothing but allow otherwise good workers and craftsmen become lazy and irresponsible for their own actions.  

Not to mention that if some workers have some pride and try to work beyond the minimal union quota's they are threatened and/or strongarmed.

Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked.

I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll.

Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread.

Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll.

And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling.

Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll.

Your right! Unfortunatly you were the first one to start the name calling and putting out the first personal attack.

The only thing I like about my union is the $83/hr pay package

Quoted: Most municipal employees are union in Illinois, does this mean all cops and city maintence men are evil? I know of many occasions where the union stood up for employees who had been treated very unfairly by the city government.

The other side of that sword is all the chicken-shit employees have to put up with BECAUSE of the Union.  I'm union (an operating engineer's union for a maintence shop), and management gives us all a very hard time because of the strict work rules laid out by the contract.  Many greivences are filed by our laziest members, demanding fair treatment (i.e. - "You didn't write up [name here] for doing the exact same thing I did, but you wrote me up!").  Many times the person filing the grievance will claim racism.  As a result, productive members who deserve more leniant treatment (a couple of latenesses "covered" by the boss, for example) don't get it.  The laziest piece of shit gets the same treatment as the best worker in the shop - For example, if you're late - even by ONE minute- the supervisor will keep a record of it.  Four times in a year and you're written up for tardiness.

Strict job classifications (and subdivisions of each classification in some cases) prevent people from doing things that would normally be considered "part of the job".   For example, electricians where I work do not work on motors, high voltage switchgear, or even low voltage controls.  There are seperate divisions for these things.  This is something that almost every electrician would do outside of where I work (including those in construction unions, which are an entirely different animal than "in house" unions.)  We even have guys who do nothing but change air filters.  You could literally work there for 35 years doing nothing else, with very little chance of bettering yourself and becoming a full-fledged A/C mechanic.

Another big problem is seniority clauses.  No matter how much of a bum you are, if you've been there longer, you can't get laid off before someone with less seniority.  You can't be considered for promotions before the senior men are offered the job.  The result?  Some of the biggest pieces of shit get promoted to positions of authority and responsibility.  None of the workers have any incentive to take any kind of initiative or be any more productive than they have to.  I have fallen into this trap, and I'm starting to get worried that I'll never be able to be productive if I ever have to work on the outside again.  I try to keep my edge by working side-jobs, but it's not enough.

Add in the "political favors" factor and a very top-heavy management team and what you wind up with is a very inneficient and expensive work force.  

Quoted: Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread. Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll. And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling.

+1.  If you haven't anything to contribute other than name calling and personal attacks then they should STFU and not read the thread.  

Quoted: Quoted: Most municipal employees are union in Illinois, does this mean all cops and city maintence men are evil? I know of many occasions where the union stood up for employees who had been treated very unfairly by the city government. The other side of that sword is all the chicken-shit employees have to put up with BECAUSE of the Union.  I'm union (an operating engineer's union for a maintence shop), and management gives us all a very hard time because of the strict work rules laid out by the contract.  Many greivences are filed by our laziest members, demanding fair treatment (i.e. - "You didn't write up [name here] for doing the exact same thing I did, but you wrote me up!").  Many times the person filing the grievance will claim racism.  As a result, productive members who deserve more leniant treatment (a couple of latenesses "covered" by the boss, for example) don't get it.  The laziest piece of shit gets the same treatment as the best worker in the shop - For example, if you're late - even by ONE minute- the supervisor will keep a record of it.  Four times in a year and you're written up for tardiness. Strict job classifications (and subdivisions of each classification in some cases) prevent people from doing things that would normally be considered "part of the job".  For example, electricians where I work do not work on motors, high voltage switchgear, or even low voltage controls.  There are seperate divisions for these things.  This is something that almost every electrician would do outside of where I work (including those in construction unions, which are an entirely different animal than "in house" unions.)  We even have guys who do nothing but change air filters.  You could literally work there for 35 years doing nothing else, with very little chance of bettering yourself and becoming a full-fledged A/C mechanic. Another big problem is seniority clauses.  No matter how much of a bum you are, if you've been there longer, you can't get laid off before someone with less seniority.  You can't be considered for promotions before the senior men are offered the job.  The result?  Some of the biggest pieces of shit get promoted to positions of authority and responsibility.  None of the workers have any incentive to take any kind of initiative or be any more productive than they have to.  I have fallen into this trap, and I'm starting to get worried that I'll never be able to be productive if I ever have to work on the outside again.  I try to keep my edge by working side-jobs, but it's not enough. Add in the "political favors" factor and a very top-heavy management team and what you wind up with is a very inneficient and expensive work force.

In red.... yup....

Quoted: Quoted: Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread. Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll. And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling. +1.  If you haven't anything to contribute other than name calling and personal attacks then they should STFU and not read the thread.

I didn't call any names.  I just stated the obvious.  I just think it is wrong to start an obviously inflammatory thread.  And if you want to see childish name calling, look at the thread that Dusty references in his first post.

The Patron Saint Of "THE WORKIN MAN"...!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread. Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll. And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling. +1.  If you haven't anything to contribute other than name calling and personal attacks then they should STFU and not read the thread.   I didn't call any names.  I just stated the obvious.  I just think it is wrong to start an obviously inflammatory thread.  And if you want to see childish name calling, look at the thread that Dusty references in his first post.

If you have the opinion that this thread was started to be inflamatory your wrong.  Let me clue you into something.  THIS thread, was alright with no trolling BS until YOU showed up and started shit.

What's the difference between a corrupt union or a corrupt corporation?  I don't like that the unions give to the Democrats, nor do I respect how they protect the incompetent and lazy, although government affirmative action quotas promote the same thing.
Corrupt corporations that  hire illegals, steal pensions and knowingly offer an inferior product're no better.

A 1955 Chevy was union made, it was sold at a competitive price, and everybody was happy.

Now corporate greed and union corruption have combined to put the American worker and purchaser at a disadvantage.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread. Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll. And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling. +1.  If you haven't anything to contribute other than name calling and personal attacks then they should STFU and not read the thread.   I didn't call any names.  I just stated the obvious.  I just think it is wrong to start an obviously inflammatory thread.  And if you want to see childish name calling, look at the thread that Dusty references in his first post.

Sorry I offended you bud.  I just don't understand what the problem is. People start flamewars here all the time.  Nothing wrong with that really-if it doesn't bother you and to a certain extent in regards to COC and all that.  If it does offend  you should ignore it.  

Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked.

So?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Back off, this is a break off thread.  I didn't start the original thread. Quoted: Quoted: We have had this exact thread at least 5 times in the past year. It always ends up getting someones account locked. I agree.  Anyone who starts a union bashing thread is obviously a troll and should be banned.  This shit turns into name calling, personal attacks and hard feelings.  Dusty, you should know that by starting a thread like this you are fitting the definition of a troll. And If other people resort to name calling and personal attacks, that's their own issue, not mine.  PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  There are those that would say you shitting on my thread like you are is trolling. +1.  If you haven't anything to contribute other than name calling and personal attacks then they should STFU and not read the thread.   I didn't call any names.  I just stated the obvious.  I just think it is wrong to start an obviously inflammatory thread.  And if you want to see childish name calling, look at the thread that Dusty references in his first post. Sorry I offended you bud.  I just don't understand what the problem is. People start flamewars here all the time.  Nothing wrong with that really-if it doesn't bother you and to a certain extent in regards to COC and all that.  If it does offend  you should ignore it.

See, I have a hard time ignoring this kind of thread since I have been a union member for the last 14 years.  This kind of post concerns me, and I have a hard time sitting back listening to all the total nonsense that guys who have no idea that all unions are not the same, and there are different kinds of people in every union.  To be honest, I just wanted to be an electrician, I couldn't care less whether or not I was union or non union, but union called first so that's the way I went.  It just pisses me off when ALL union members are considered to be lazy, greedy bastards when that isn't at all true.  I don't call all non union workers idiots for not being union.  There are some pretty ignorant comments being thrown around in the other thread, and they are almost exclusively from the anti union guys.

Dusty, I am not shitting in your thread, I am attempting to contribute to it.

In short...

Fuck 'em.  Fuck every damn one of them.