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Posted: 2/20/2006 3:52:33 AM EDT

High big brother


www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-02-14-chicago-cameras_x.htm
By Judy Keen, USA TODAY
CHICAGO — Surveillance cameras — aimed at government buildings, train platforms and intersections here — might soon be required at corner taverns and swanky nightclubs.
A police camera, mounted with a microphone, can detect the sound of gunshots within a two-block radius. A police camera, mounted with a microphone, can detect the sound of gunshots within a two-block radius.
File photo/AP

Mayor Richard Daley wants to require bars open until 4 a.m. to install security cameras that can identify people entering and leaving the building. Other businesses open longer than 12 hours a day, including convenience stores, eventually would have to do the same.

Daley's proposed city ordinance adds a dimension to security measures installed after the Sept. 11 attacks.

The proliferation of security cameras — especially if the government requires them in private businesses — troubles some civil liberties advocates.

"There is no reason to mandate all of those cameras unless you one day see them being linked up to the city's 911 system," says Ed Yohnka of the Illinois American Civil Liberties Union. "We have perhaps reached that moment of critical mass when people ... want to have a dialogue about how much of this is appropriate."

Milwaukee is considering requiring cameras at stores that have called police three or more times in a year. The Baltimore County Council in Maryland ordered large malls to put cameras in parking areas after a murder in one garage last year. The measure passed despite objections from business groups.

"We require shopping centers to put railings on stairs and install sprinkler systems for public safety. This is a proper next step," says Baltimore County Councilman Kevin Kamenetz, who sponsored the ordinance.

Some cities aren't going along. Schenectady, N.Y., shelved a proposal that would have required cameras in convenience stores.

"The safer we make the city, the better it is for everyone," says Chicago Alderman Ray Suarez, who first proposed mandatory cameras in some businesses. "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?"

Nick Novich, owner of three Chicago bars, worries about the cost. "Every added expense ... puts a small business in greater jeopardy of going out of business," he says. Daley says cameras will deter crime, but Novich says, "That's what we're paying taxes for."

Colleen McShane, president of the Illinois Restaurant Association, says the proposal, which Daley announced last week, is an unfair burden on small businesses. "This is once again more government intrusion," she says.

Some business owners say cameras make patrons feel safer. Cameras are in all 30 Chicago bars, clubs and restaurants owned by Ala Carte Entertainment, spokeswoman Julia Shell says: "It's far more cost-effective for us to have them than not to have them."

By spring, 30 Chicago intersections will have cameras to catch drivers who run red lights. More than 2,000 cameras around the city are linked to an emergency command center, paid for in part by federal homeland security funds.

The newest "smart" cameras alert police when there's gunfire or when someone leaves a package or lingers outside public buildings. The system is based on the one in London that helped capture suspected terrorists after last summer's subway bombings.

Chicago is installing those sophisticated camera systems more aggressively than any other U.S. city, says Rajiv Shah, an assistant professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago who studies the policy implications of surveillance technology. Recording what people do in public "is just getting easier and cheaper to do," he says. "Think of your camera cellphone."
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:58:40 AM EDT
I run hand held camcorders all the time.

Nothing better than catching a workman's comp cheat out
danceing or backpacking

Video very clearly shows what heppened most of the time.

There's no refuteing it.

At a strike last year I got a picket running a key down the side of
a Po-po van.

Didn't end well for her

We've got far bigger things to worry about in this country than
video cameras in bars or on streetlights.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:00:52 AM EDT
Fuck'm. They voted for the cocksucker, let'm swallow his load.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:02:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I run hand held camcorders all the time.

Nothing better than catching a workman's comp cheat out
danceing or backpacking

Video very clearly shows what heppened most of the time.

There's no refuteing it.

At a strike last year I got a picket running a key down the side of
a Po-po van.

Didn't end well for her

We've got far bigger things to worry about in this country than
video cameras in bars or on streetlights.

Hell I don't care if someone wants to do it, but what right does the government have to keep your place of business under 24hr surveillance? The funny thing is people go all bonkers about the wire tapping but are closed mouthed about this.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:06:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
I run hand held camcorders all the time.

Nothing better than catching a workman's comp cheat out
danceing or backpacking

Video very clearly shows what heppened most of the time.

There's no refuteing it.

At a strike last year I got a picket running a key down the side of
a Po-po van.

Didn't end well for her

We've got far bigger things to worry about in this country than
video cameras in bars or on streetlights.

Hell I don't care if someone wants to do it, but what right does the government have to keep your place of business under 24hr surveillance? The funny thing is people go all bonkers about the wire tapping but are closed mouthed about this.



I dunno. Cost of doing .biz I suppose.

.Gov can tell you whether or not you can smoke in your place or buisness.
They can tell you what you can and can't sell.
They can tell you where you can and can't locate your buisness.

That's just the short list, man.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:08:46 AM EDT

"If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?"



I'm getting tired of seeing this. It's like someone is distributing talking points written by Heinrich Himmler.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:21:17 AM EDT
George Orwell was right!

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:29:50 AM EDT
video cameras are witnesses, not safety officers - someone tell me the last time a video camera jumped up and stopped a crime from happening or stopped an accident on the road....hmmm......
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:32:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
video cameras are witnesses, not safety officers - someone tell me the last time a video camera jumped up and stopped a crime from happening or stopped an accident on the road....hmmm......



Well, if I'm on a picket line and the video camera comes up they scamper away like a covey of quail
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:33:59 AM EDT
Being reactive is somehow better than being proactive?

How about we require all businesses that fall into these categories to make available the use of, and the training in the use of, an adequate firearm?

Woody
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:38:51 AM EDT
I've got a good supply.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:43:56 AM EDT
If you dont do it, he'll just bulldoze your bar.

I really hate that guy. Everytime I hear someone say "Chicago? I love that place!" I feel the bile rising.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:46:07 AM EDT

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:49:23 AM EDT
I'm betting that most of what this is about is
IBEW-crewed Camera installation buisnesses that will
get all the new contracts.

Ever lefty politico in Chi-town is beholding to the Unions.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:29:03 AM EDT
I say we put camera in the Mayor's office. If he is not doing anything wrong he shouldn't have anything to hide.

Let's do this in all governmental offices. Have it on TV so you can dial in and watch. After all, they are "public servants" and we pay for it.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:31:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:40:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
I say we put camera in the Mayor's office. If he is not doing anything wrong he shouldn't have anything to hide.

Let's do this in all governmental offices. Have it on TV so you can dial in and watch. After all, they are "public servants" and we pay for it.




I like this idea.
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