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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:34:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Me too. I hear Mexican labor is cheap. Hey, Juan, want a job?  |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:43:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Go ahead and blow yourself up. See if I care. 
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:43:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Check with Mojo.
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:45:55 AM EDT
[#4]
They will only load ammo Americans won't load themselves. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:54:50 AM EDT
[#5]
1. GM77SMK can be bought for $15/20.... or $0.75 per round. 2. Black Hills 77SMK is around $25/50.... or $0.50 per round. Black Hills is better ammo, IMHO. 3. My 77SMK reloads are $.04 for brass, $.15 for bullet, $.05 for powder, $.02 for primer, $.01 in comsumables. That equals $0.27 per round. My reloads shoot better in my specific guns than Black Hills, but not by much, and it is a ton of work. But I love it. Dont do it for the money savings.... unless you really spend a LOT of money already on the best ammo out there. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:56:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Seating primers in .223 is exactly the same as .45. The main difference is brass prep. Reloading any straigh wall pistol is WAY easier than bottleneck rifle.... because there is more brass prep required on rifle, and lube is a must when resizing for gas guns. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:03:23 AM EDT
[#7]
I prefer not to tumble loaded cartridges for a variety of reasons.
What I do is use water soluble case lube and after sizing the cases, simply wash them in hot water shake/tumble them, and allow them to dry overnight. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:11:41 AM EDT
[#8]
This is IPSC FMJ target ammo... 1000 Bullets - $25 1000 Primers- $15 4 Pounds of powder $67.60 Brass - Free Total - $107.60 for 1000 Rounds Not many people load .223 so I pick up everyone's brass... I have tons of it! There are plenty of savings! I don't know what you all are talking about... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:18:21 AM EDT
[#9]
It is typically required to factor in time spent reloading, consumables, and cost of equipment spread out over time... to get a real $$$ amount, in which you will find, there is typically little savings. Especially if you have a mentallity shift, where you begin to shoot more, because you know it is costing you less per shot. Then, the "savings" just went out the window. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:25:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Give this man the "Solid Logic" award. Great post. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:31:55 AM EDT
[#11]
even if you shoot alot you still save when compairing cost of factory loads to your reloads if you shoot for competions, or just like to practice alot. And yes I too am wiating for the imfamous commet to hit since I vibratory clean loaded ammo, and transport loose ammo in a ziplock bag to the range. Some day Alice Pow Boom to the Moon!
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:47:39 AM EDT
[#12]
If you already have the brass, here are the costs: 1. 55gr FMJBT pulled M193 bullests (1k): $25 (from Hi-Tech) 2. 25,000 gr AA2230C from Powder Valley (bought as 8lb can): $30 3. 1k Win Sm rifle primers from Powder Valley: $15 Total not including shiping or Hazmat of 1k: $70. Figure $10-$15 for shipping and hazmat. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:49:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Me too! Loads of free brass at the two clubs I belong to. Haven't needed to buy brass for years... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 7:51:27 AM EDT
[#14]
That is alot of $ for powder. What are you using? I have been trying AA2230C with good results. It is $68 / 8lb from Powder Valley. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:00:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Nice! but clean your cartrdige bin and press!
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:03:40 AM EDT
[#16]
AFAIK the reason some imported SS109 bullets dont have painted tips is because the paint came off in the tumbler....tumbled complete of course.
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:11:12 AM EDT
[#17]
It all depends on what your are reloading. I reload 45 ACP mostly, and there are significant cost saving. Adding up bullets, powder, and primers, and occassionally new brass, it comes out to $4.75 for 50. 5.56 doesn't offer that much of an advantage, and 9mm for my AR is cheaper to buy than reload.
Semper Fi |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:35:06 AM EDT
[#18]
I see powder valley... Their prices are awesome! I'll be ordering from them next time. I'm shooting Hogdon Varget... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:39:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Wow - I love Varget.... but it meters for shit... and for practice ammo? Get some AA2230C! Meters like water, and cheap. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:43:19 AM EDT
[#20]
With the new IPSC rules, I'd be able to do that... I'm not sure if you know but, in IPSC there is a minimum power factor. They reduced the power factor so 16" guns could compete. Before the new ruling, the only way I could get high velocities with a 16" gun was to use Varget. I'll try this powder... Does it burn at the right rate for .308 in an M1A? |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 8:46:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Really? Because it is much easier to produce higher velocities with a double based ball powder. You can hardly even get Varget to hit 3200FPS with a 55FMJ.... it will fill the case. With AA2230, AA2230C, and H335, this is pretty easy.
That, I do not know. I load nothing but Varget in .308.
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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:29:42 AM EDT
[#22]
And no need means that I understand and have moved on
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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:43:03 AM EDT
[#23]
I was just reloading the other day:  oh, wait ... never mind
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Posted: 2/20/2006 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#24]
The savings is quite decent. Especially for rifle ammo. You can load excellent ammo at about 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of factory. The equipment pays for itself in short order if you shoot a lot. I suggest that you start out small, with a single stage press and scale. See what you think. The thing is, you have to have a brain in your head and you have to be serious about keeping the quality high. You can reload bad quality ammo. I do a lot of stuff that a lot of reloaders won't do. For example, I throw away my rifle brass after 5 loads. Most guys try to squeeze the last penny out but I say you already have the savings, why push the envelope? I also prime all my cases with a hand tool. I also always use a power that fills the case at least halfway. That way a double charge will spill over. I never use "range brass". I also don't reload for gas powered autoloading rifles. I alway reload for only modern guns, not old antiques. I never use a loading block, they are like an optical illusion toy, an error magnet. If I was reloading for an autoloader, I would get a case gauge and check case dimensions. As I say, most guys will sneer at this sort of cautious behavior, but you will notice that blown up guns are almost always attributed to reloads. Why? Shitty reloads. Reloading is an excellent hobby, but there is a danger. You don't have to dump in your pants but you do want to stack the odds in your favor. Some guys brag that they reloaded 500 rounds in one hour, etc. I say take another 1/2 hour and slow the fock down. Get a good book on reloading and take the plunge. here's a good kit: rcbs master kit |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 11:07:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Well, my crank cracked on both sides...
 I'll be out of action for a week or so... I already called Dillon and they'll make it right! They have excellent customer service. I'll post pictures soon... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 1:57:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Way I figure reloading is this:
Safety first in everything. This reduces the process into small, discrete steps, each one of which is checked before going on to the next step. Guess what? In the meantime, uniformity, quality and accuracy have a way of sneaking in. My milsurp equivalents, using reloaded GI brass (mostly obtained for free) are much more accurate than the issue stuff. NOT purposely trying to make a Match round, since I'm using FMJ bullets. Still, attention to safety (read--detail) makes my round come out much better than the GI stuff. My purpose-made Match rounds are better still. My time? I don't put the same dollar amount on my spare time as my working time, whether working for my employer or myself. My reloading time is time I formerly spent in front of the idiot box, a nasty habit, that. So you see, not only do I wind up with good, cheap, accurate ammo, but I have avoided all that brainwashing, too. Not a bad deal, IMHO. Not to mention learned a useful skill. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 4:10:30 PM EDT
[#27]
I wiped off the press shortly after taking this picture:
This is the bottom of the crank that I discovered *three* cracks in... 
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Posted: 2/20/2006 4:14:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Is reloading .223 worth it, besides the hobby aspect of it? When we can get 1k rounds (non wolf) for like $160-200. I really don't know.
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Posted: 2/20/2006 4:22:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Wolf doesn't even begin to compare with good quality reloads... It's apples and oranges... You'll pay less than $160 per 1k loading your own and the finished product will be much better than Wolf... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 5:35:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Do you factor in your time spent shooting? How about other hobbies? Reloading is 'Part' of Shooting. As far as the 'savings going out the window', You shoot more it costs more, reloading or not. With the components I have on hand now, .223 blasting ammo runs me $67.92 per K. I buy components in bulk. The only brass I have to buy is 6 and 7 mm BR and .378. all other is pick ups. 
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Posted: 2/20/2006 5:58:21 PM EDT
[#31]
First off, I want to thank everyone for their replies to my question. I have learned a lot from this thread and I really do appreciate it. I am looking forward to taking this plunge, but have a few more questions: 1) Does the above kit include EVERYTHING that I NEED to reload? If not, what else do I need? 2) My budget for this equipment is about three times the price of that kit. Is it worth it for me to just go ahead and upgrade from the beginning, or should I just worry about that later? I noticed the "Upgrade kit" for the kit listed above. Is that worth the money now, or should I just find one "Kit" that includes everything? Thanks again! 
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:09:35 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm a few months out from getting a new Giraurd trimmer for my 50BMG loading.
I couldn't find anyone with a decent Forrester trimmer back when I got into loading 50BMG so I went with a Lyman. 500 rounds later and the Lyman is about to go tits up because it's such a collosal pile of shit. Most of my time spent reloading for 50BMG revolves around trimming which takes FOREVER due to trimmer frustrations. To do 30-45 rounds it takes the better part of around 2 hours because my trimmer is a pile of shit. I've got 450 rounds now loaded up, 3 full cans now. Cool thing is while using surplus powder my powder costs per loaded round of 50BMG is almost the same as my powder cost per loaded round of 223Rem.  Now I can move onto resetting my powder measure for some runs of 223Rem, 308Win, and 300WinMag. Loaded up over 250 rounds of 7.62Nato last week for an up coming camping trip. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:20:49 PM EDT
[#33]
No. Go to the reloading forum. Read every thread on the first 4 pages. This gets asked and answered all the time. Then, do a search on the word "newbie" for the reloading forum. I am not kidding.
There is no such thing as a kit that includes everything. The equipment you will need also will be determined by what calibers you want to load for. That kis it $230 on avg sale. Your budget is 3 times that, or $690. Trust me, with that kit, you can spend the rest just on accessories and consumables.... a bench, tumbler, cob, lube, dies, case gauges, calipers, ammo boxes, etc...etc...etc.. See one of my posts in the reloading forum... I list out the kit, and all the "extra" parts I think are needed. I think it totalled something like $800 or more. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:28:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for yet another great reply. I will be in the reloading forum if anyone needs me. 
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:38:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Someday, I want to be important enough that I have to charge myself for my own free time.  Consumables? Like Beer and Pretzles? Our 550 easily has 100K rounds out of it. Amortized cost per round is negligible. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:41:51 PM EDT
[#36]
$800 to start reloading is way too much money. I started with a cheapo $100 lyman kit and turned out a shit pile of nice ammo. And let me tell you that I am fussy about ammo quality. Aside from the kit you need a set of dies for the caliber you are reloading and a shellholder, Say another $25. A dial caliper is also a good idea. You will also need consumables: brass, powder, primers, and bullets. Get the brass and bullets from midway. I think natchez has powder and primers. Get those at the local gun shop. Start out light. No matter how much you expand, the stuff in the kit will be useful. It's excellent quality. The kit has a single stage press. Eventually you will want a progresive. You will be glad to have a single stage also. They are handy. You need more knowledge and more experience before you go hog wild spending money. The kit includes the very excellent RCBS reloading manual. The Lyman manual is also very good. Here is another excellent book: I STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT: ABCs |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 6:49:10 PM EDT
[#37]
+1 on this book.
******************************** I STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT: ABCs ******************************** I am the odd man out. I use a Lee Load Master. Except for the bullet feeder, it works great. |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:01:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Great job on the ammo, looks good.
Did you notice that there is a .223 case mixed in with your nickle plated .308 brass? |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:07:05 PM EDT
[#39]
I did only after posting the picture on ARFCOM... I'm going to go fish it out tomorrow... |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:59:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Nice reloads! What gives with the tumbling live ammo will KABOOM?? Does anyone even have accounts of this actually happening besides their imagination???? I know countless reloaders who tumble including myself, i'm talking collectively 100's of thousands of rounds no kaboom. Is it possible? Sure it is but so is the possiblitly of a space monster landing here and eating all the idiots of the world.
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Posted: 2/20/2006 11:41:40 PM EDT
[#41]
LOLOLOLOL! WRONG ! ! The chances of a space monster landing here and eating all the fools is greater than that of a KABOOM by tumbling. People have to do what they are comfortable doing. I outlined a test (see post above) which anyone, ANYONE, can do to address their fears of a KABOOOM. Loaded rounds are so massive they move so slowly in my tumbler. Take a look in your tumbler when it's running. The walnut media is what's moving, not the rounds. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 2:52:14 AM EDT
[#42]
ouch! never seen that type of failure before on a 550B. Some heavy duty stressed must of cracked it you do anything out of the ordinary or drop it or something? |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 5:56:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Not a great reply here, but I suggest you start with a Dillon 550B with the reloading video. I don't see any reason to start with a single stage press. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 5:57:30 AM EDT
[#44]
I am also the odd man out because I found that book to be completely usless. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 5:58:42 AM EDT
[#45]
+1. Time to send it back to Dillon for a free refirb. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:17:48 AM EDT
[#46]
If you're looking for cheap blasting ammo and are satified with Wolf and Ugandan surpluss ammo then don't bother to reload. You won't save enough money to equal the time and equipment costs.
If you are a hunter and are satisfied with 30 rounds for practice/sighting in and 10 rounds for hunting a year then don't bother to reload. You won't save enough money to equal the time and equipment costs. If you make $50 an hour on overtime and can work overtime whenever you want then don't bother to reload. Just work a couple of hours of overtime to pay for your ammo. But if you need a lot of good ammo to matches, or you like to shoot a 100+ rounds a year with your hunting rifle or you want to stockpile a load that isn't sold by the case, then reloading is for you. I have two relaoding projects coming up. 1) A 9mm load for bowling pin and IPSC matches. I've never tried an accuracy load for a handgun before so this will be interesting. This will cost about $90/1000 2) A SHTF 223 load with the Winchester 64 grain Power Point. I plan to load about 2-3k of this one. It will cost about $165/1000 |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:25:10 AM EDT
[#47]
I asked that they send me the crank and I'll change it myself... |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 10:52:50 AM EDT
[#48]
that reminds me I need to drive to my grandpas and roll out some more 38 specials stocks running low.
as for factoring in my time. I dont know I just figure since I enjoy shooting I just contribute it in to cost of being in the sport more time spent reloading = more time on the range getting better, |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 1:47:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Get the best scale you can afford.
Get a powder measure that works well with the powder type you prefer. A single pumper is ok for beginning up to a couple hundred rounds a week, if you need more than that go to a progressive. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 6:24:08 PM EDT
[#50]
 Is that a sideways primer I see there near the bottom left corner?? I broke the same part before too on my Dillon 550B....they will send a replacement part and it is easy to change out. |
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