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Posted: 2/19/2006 4:10:59 PM EDT
www.black-rifles.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3726

On another gun board. I don't have a 1911, so does what he says hold water?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:13:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 4:15:47 PM EDT by Wolfpack]
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:13:45 PM EDT
Oh sorry, if I posted in the wrong forum.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:15:31 PM EDT
1911's do sometimes require a little 'tweaking' to work right.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:16:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
1911's do sometimes require a little 'tweaking' to work right.



Mine didn't.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:20:21 PM EDT
I wouldn't trust any gun that wouldn't run on quality HPs right out of the box.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:27:05 PM EDT
He's full of it IMHO.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:29:51 PM EDT
I've been playing with 1911's for about 45 years. I quit building them a few years ago and I agree with some of what he says. The newer guns I've looked at were junk and I wouldn't trust my life to them but I think most newer guns of every brand are junk. I still have a 1911 that I built around 1980 and it goes everywhere with me. I think one of the problems is that people want to make them too trick. A plain Jane issue gun is as reliable as anyone needs. Extended this and bevelled that just buys trouble.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:34:07 PM EDT
My feeling about auto's in general.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:35:31 PM EDT
I got rid of my jam-o-matic Para Warthog a couple weeks ago... Decided to go the Glock way and be simple... Had a Warthog that wouldnt feed ball ammo at all... Every second or third round JAM JAM JAM...... Drop some expensive Honady TAP ammo in her and she ran like a top... I will not own a gun which is picky about what it eats.... So far my G30 pops every time. Just picked up a NIB Glock 26 today ...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:44:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 6:06:56 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
I agree with most of what he says. The world of $1500 hand fitted pistols that can be reliable only if the moon and stars align properly is completely lost on me. A properly fitted, broken-in-but-not-yet-worn-out example fed quality ammo is a joy to shoot, but there are so many less finicky pistols out there that can be had for $500-900. The tolerances simply stack up such that the 1911 cannot consistently be inexpensive to manufacture, accurate, and reliable.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:47:11 PM EDT
My Colt Gov't has worked flawlessly for over 20 years now.

::shrug::

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:47:29 PM EDT
I have a number of 1911s. Never one problem. All were straight from the box with no special work done on them. Les Baer and Colts
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:48:59 PM EDT
Never had a single prob. out of my Kimber
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:49:57 PM EDT
He's high on Crack.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:51:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
1911's do sometimes require a little 'tweaking' to work right.



Mine didnt. Paid a whole 300 bucks for it. SAM-Military Model
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:52:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
Never had a single prob. out of my Kimber



Same here. Even has the sacreligious aluminum frame....
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:54:59 PM EDT
News flash: Handgun research and development didn't stop in 1911. There are better things out there.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:58:25 PM EDT
Rodent
Team Member
Extreme Moderate

Joined :: August 2001
Post Number :: 4901

NH, USA

User Info IM User Email User Reply Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

News flash: Handgun research and development didn't stop in 1911. There are better things out there.







BLASPHEMER, BURN HIM, BURN HIM I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:05:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
News flash: Handgun research and development didn't stop in 1911. There are better things out there.



Blasphemy.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:14:03 AM EDT
he's a tard...and apparently a poor machinest too
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:53:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 12:54:52 AM EDT by Mr45auto]
He's an idiot. If you have an extractor issue you dont need to fart with it. Buy a Wilson Combat bulletproof and be done with it. He sounds like a guy who buys parts from the gunshow bulk bins and expects top quality stuff.

Also dont compare stories of Para ords (a later post by another guy)not working to regular 1911s. They're a different critter.


Rodent, you're right it didnt stop. The 1911 has evolved.

As a former glock owner, a current XD and Sig owner I'll keep carrying 1911s.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:07:40 AM EDT
Ignore the dude....

The 1911 is a decent gun design....a little dated, but I like the way it feels in my hand...
Kind of like a nice Smith and Wesson revolver...

Skip the custom gun scene and do things the easy way...
Buy a Kimber...

Favorite handgun, next to my beloved Smith's...

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:16:23 AM EDT
lol this is coming froma guy who has seen 5 glocks blown up. ya he is on crack
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:17:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 2:18:10 AM EDT by haloemt]
he says he has seen 5 glocks caboom with factory ammo.


I'm not a glock fan but come on.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:22:28 AM EDT
his avatar is scary.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:23:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By haloemt:
he says he has seen 5 glocks caboom with factory ammo.


I'm not a glock fan but come on.



yeah, right.....
the pointy end of the bullet goes in the other way, silly
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:00:06 AM EDT
I have owned 4 1911's, and have needed to change or "tweak" a single one of them. I can't be lucky enough to have gotten 4 straight good ones if they sucked as much as many think. I think not fucking with them too much is the key.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:44:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WMW:
www.black-rifles.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3726

On another gun board. I don't have a 1911, so does what he says hold water?



When you buy POS 1911s, sure they suck.

When you buy properly made 1911s, you don't have those problems.

Here's the thing about 1911s: Everybody and his retarded uncle can make them. Thus you have very high quality 1911s, and very poor quality 1911s.

Imagine if Lorcin made guns based on the Glock design. Would they still be "perfection"? Absolutely not. They would be pieces of sh*t because all Lorcin knew how to make was cheap pieces of sh*t. They used crappy materials, piss poor QC, and really didn't give much of a darn about the quality they produced.

There is NOTHING WRONG with the 1911 design itself. There is a HELL OF A LOT WRONG with the way SOME COMPANIES MAKE THEM.

My personal experiences with Spangfelt 1911s was similarly unpleasant, and I won't own another one as long as I live. I wouldn't even accept one FREE.

People keep insisting on defining the 1911 by the crappiest makes which is like defining all hatchbacks as crap because you owned a 1993 Hyundai hatchback that was a piece of crap.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:48:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
I agree with most of what he says. The world of $1500 hand fitted pistols that can be reliable only if the moon and stars align properly is completely lost on me.



Well, my 1500 dollar Les Baer experienced one malfunction on round number 3 of its 300 round break in: A stovepipe that was probably my fault in the first place.

It has never jammed since. Despite being so tight that it took two people to open the action of the pistol when I bought it. The next 10,000 or so rounds have been trouble free, especially the 3,000 plus rounds it endured in single weeks of weapons training in sand, mud, and other unpleasantness.

The Glock guys spent a lot more time clearing jams than I did.



A properly fitted, broken-in-but-not-yet-worn-out example fed quality ammo is a joy to shoot, but there are so many less finicky pistols out there that can be had for $500-900.



But those are much harder to hit a target with than the 1911. A good 1911 with a good trigger is the easiest weapon in the world to put a round on target with.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:50:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
News flash: Handgun research and development didn't stop in 1911. There are better things out there.



I don't think "better" is appropriate. There are other options out there for sure.

But when it comes to putting a round on target under stress, you can't beat the 1911.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:02:02 AM EDT
My old S&W 645 eats everything. It is more than I can say for my Springfield. I am thinking that the Springfield problem may be related to the mags though. But then again, it has less than 300 rounds through it. Testing is on-going.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:16:41 AM EDT
I've never been impressed with the 1911. Its big, bulky, too many stories of unreliability, a platform thats nearly 100 years old and shoots a caliber thats generally considered at best mediocre at stopping a man and has been copied more times then a graduates class notes and every copy seems to get shittier and shittier all the while having a larger and larger price tag.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:20:06 AM EDT
My plain jane Norinco 1911 has eaten everthing I have given it with no problems.

I wold bet my life on it. I got it for $290.

Five Glocks KB with factory ammo, one a 9mm...........c'on?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:32:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I've never been impressed with the 1911. Its big, bulky, too many stories of unreliability, a platform thats nearly 100 years old and shoots a caliber thats generally considered at best mediocre at stopping a man and has been copied more times then a graduates class notes and every copy seems to get shittier and shittier all the while having a larger and larger price tag.



Never owned or shot one eh?


And what caliber would you consider better than .45acp?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:38:52 AM EDT
Unless the P226 X-5 Tactical (.40) comes out in the next few months my next pistol is slated to be a 1911. I'm not much for all these overpriced $1,000+ Uber freaks of nature. I just want a gun made of STEEL and as close to mil-spec as possible.

Natrually I'm thinking just stick with Springfield Armory!
I just love their marketing! LOL!!! I like that "Hostage stand for a zillion hours one too"


Anyway back on track. I've heard the horror stories about the SOCOM 16 being a piece of shit (don't flame me I don't own one) so I'm wondering how the QC and parts are with SA and their 1911's. I really like their Mil-spec series. JUST MEAT AND POTATOS!

Comments, feedback?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:45:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 4:49:29 AM EDT by Gunner1X]
I shot a 1911 for over 20 years...I switched to the H&K USP .45 4 years ago and haven't looked back.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:47:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 4:50:07 AM EDT by Winston_Wolf]

Originally Posted By WMW:
www.black-rifles.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3726

On another gun board. I don't have a 1911, so does what he says hold water?



... The guy has been "fiddling" with 1911s for years. He was never a true gunsmith.

... I absolutely hate the term "fit-check" - it implies, "I don't know if it's right, so I'll jam it into an assembly of questionable configuration to see if it magically works". Idiots.

... A true 'smith can make nearly any insert your favorite gun here run like a sewing machine.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:56:23 AM EDT
Springfield Armory stainless Loaded 1911, 2000 rds thru it, the only jams were magazine related (with a Wilson combat mag, can you imagine that?). Runs flawlessly, puts 16 rds of 230gr into a space the size of the palm of my hand at 50 feet. My daily carry gun.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:01:21 AM EDT
I own four Colts: two Government models, a lightweight Commander and a lightweight Officer's. One Government model (purchased in the early eighties) needed a little work but the other three are stock and run fine. The main thing about 1911s is to use good magazines.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:10:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 5:11:39 AM EDT by Brian_in_Pullman]

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Unless the P226 X-5 Tactical (.40) comes out in the next few months my next pistol is slated to be a 1911. I'm not much for all these overpriced $1,000+ Uber freaks of nature. I just want a gun made of STEEL and as close to mil-spec as possible.

Natrually I'm thinking just stick with Springfield Armory!
I just love their marketing! LOL!!! I like that "Hostage stand for a zillion hours one too"
www.springfield-armory.com/images/Products.jpg

Anyway back on track. I've heard the horror stories about the SOCOM 16 being a piece of shit (don't flame me I don't own one) so I'm wondering how the QC and parts are with SA and their 1911's. I really like their Mil-spec series. JUST MEAT AND POTATOS!
www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/a1/PB9108L.jpg
Comments, feedback?



I have a loaded model and it has eaten every think I have fed it be it ball ammo, HP's or wolf. It has had 1 malfucntion, a FTE with a shot shell (which I believe was because that one had been chambered numerous times before it was fired). Remember SA M1A's use a cast reciever, but the 1911's have forged frames made buy Imbel.

And just to stir things up a little, I shot an IPSC match yesterday and in my group of 10 shooters the majority of people with gun problems were shooting Glocks, which really surprised me.

ETA: I have around 1200-1500 rounds through mine.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:38:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
Never had a single prob. out of my Kimber



Same here. Even has the sacreligious aluminum frame....


My kimber (custom stainless) fails to lock back on empty mags and stovepipes frequently. I've tried many expensive mags--wilsons and mccormicks--and many brands of ammo, cheap and expensive.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:39:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
Never had a single prob. out of my Kimber



Same here. Even has the sacreligious aluminum frame....


My kimber (custom stainless) fails to lock back on empty mags and stovepipes frequently. I've tried many expensive mags--wilsons and mccormicks--and many brands of ammo, cheap and expensive.



Internal or external extractor?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:41:08 AM EDT
I think it's silly to discount a certain firearm because of "x" experience with one.

As long as you buy good mags, a good quality weapon, and, good quality ammo,
my experience has been you will have very little problem, no matter what the
make/model.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:42:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Its big, bulky,



The 1911 is actually SLIMMER in profile than most other pistols on the market. That makes it really easy to carry in an IWB rig.



too many stories of unreliability,



Many of which are just that: Stories



a platform thats nearly 100 years old



So? Almost all pistol actions are pretty close to 100 years old.

Revolvers are a bit older than that. But they still work pretty good....



and shoots a caliber thats generally considered at best mediocre at stopping a man



And what, praytell, is a better manstopper? Hmmm???

FMJ in ANY handgun caliber isn't the best manstopper on earth, and the majority of actual shootings with a .45 have been with SUPRISE! FMJ ammo.



and has been copied more times then a graduates class notes and every copy seems to get shittier and shittier all the while having a larger and larger price tag.



On that you have some valid points. As I said, everone and his retarded uncle makes a 1911 now. And a significant number of them are absolute crap.

If you have never had a GOOD 1911, they can look overrated.

Once you own a GOOD 1911, you will lust after more.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:43:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
He's full of it IMHO.



That whole board looks to be full of retards. 10 bucks says half of 'em get their info from American Handgunner and the other half get their info from Guns and Ammo.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:45:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 5:46:59 AM EDT by PROFESSORCHAOS]
that guy stole my avatar!!! FWIW, i love my springfield

eta-i've had no problems with mine
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:50:49 AM EDT
Glad he's giving up on 1911s, just means there are more available for me.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:02:49 AM EDT
I have owned two Springfield 1911s and I can't say I enjoyed either of them. Nothing wrong with the pistol but I just did not like them. I ended up trading one for an HK USP 45 that I later sold for a USP 9. I have never looked back and that 9 can SHOOT. I am not a great shot but I cannot miss with the USP. It fits my hand better than the 1911 or the USP 45 and it is reliable. My personal preference is what works for me. If I can't get it done with 16 rounds of 9mm+p hollowpoint, it isnt going to get done with 8 rounds of .45.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:57:44 AM EDT
<--------------My favorite friend. It fits me perfectly and has run flawlessly since day one.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:02:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By Avtomat:

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
Never had a single prob. out of my Kimber



Same here. Even has the sacreligious aluminum frame....


My kimber (custom stainless) fails to lock back on empty mags and stovepipes frequently. I've tried many expensive mags--wilsons and mccormicks--and many brands of ammo, cheap and expensive.



Internal or external extractor?

Internal
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