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Posted: 2/18/2006 7:15:54 PM EDT
Here's a short poll with a simple question. Everyones discussed AR vs AK over and over. Even thrown in the occasional 7.62x51 arguement and so forth. In terms of close quarters effectiveness and range; we all know that both the 12ga and lets say your standard AK (or clone/variant) perform well in these 2 arena's. So what would be your choice given the 2. I know that the likely "get both" remarks will surface but I'm asking folks to keep it to one answer and explanation if necessary.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:16:51 PM EDT
Ak has hi capacity and lower recoil.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:20:34 PM EDT
For CQB a shotgun is better than a heavy bullet rifle. You still need to worry about overpenetration, but nothing like you would with a 30 cal bullet.

check out the box-o-truth for some real world type tests using buckshot among other things.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:23:29 PM EDT
against 1 target: shotgun
against multiple targets: AK
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:25:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
against 1 target: shotgun
against multiple targets: AK



+.9bar
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:26:48 PM EDT
"Just piss on them."

Should have been a CQB poll option.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:28:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 7:28:54 PM EDT by triburst1]
Think about this:

Many people who consider the 18" 12 gauge pump to be the ultimate AP weapon also consider the SKS to be an outdated POS. However, the SKS is about the same size, is lighter, has far less recoil, holds more ammo, a higher rate of fire, has several times the effective range, and is much faster to reload.

The SKS is no match for the AR, AK, or FAL, but I believe it is superior to the classic 12 gauge.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:41:33 PM EDT
AK for one reason.

Precision.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:45:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
AK for one reason.

Precision.


Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:51:26 PM EDT
you forgot to put in the option for "12 gauge ak"

the saiga-12 with a PG conversion and some of the new US made 10 round mages would be my choice
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:34:01 PM EDT
For what purpose?

Only gun to carry on a convoy in Iraq? Kalashnikov
Only gun to own while living in rural East Texas? 12 ga
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:39:21 PM EDT
AR-15
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:40:15 PM EDT
For one or two targets CQB? 12g, without a doubt.

For multiple targets and distances greater than 75 feet, definitely an AK or AR.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 10:33:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 10:35:17 PM EDT by Polydude]
Shotgun. Because I already own one, and I'm not going to shoot anything further away then the backyard fence. h.gif
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 10:42:16 PM EDT
If it is good enough for johnny jihad it is good enough for me
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 10:59:59 PM EDT
it all depends on the scenario!!


CQB the shotty!!

urban skirmish..the AK(since the AR and M14 are out of the poll)
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:07:09 AM EDT
Why the preference for the 12ga? You still have to aim it, as has been proven many times over and over. At least with the AK, you can deal with multiple targets faster (in general), and you can put SP ammo in it if you're so concerned about overpenetration.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:17:45 AM EDT
For me right this moment?

12Gauge.

I am more familiar with it and, confident in it's use.

The ammo issue that everyone quotes is overrated
and can be overcome with proper training.

If I picked up an AK (Which I plan to do next year)
and was trained on it's employment, probably the AK.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:22:54 AM EDT
Get a Saiga 12 ga. Then you can have a 12ga AK. Seems like the best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:26:24 AM EDT


12 gauge with a couple of double ought buck backed up by slugs if we're talking in home defense, if rabid dog or zombies are on the menue at 30+ yards I'd take the AK.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:27:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Ak has hi capacity and lower recoil.



That is my reasoning also.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:31:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:44:49 AM EDT
Based on ammo issues, and the likely threat, for home defense, I'd prefer the 12ga, unless maybe I could get some good anti-personnel rounds for the AK. From what I understand, standard AK ball isn't a great man-stopper, and in the home, I'm not likely to face more then 2-3 threats or ranges greater then 10 yards.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:57:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mace:
Based on ammo issues, and the likely threat, for home defense, I'd prefer the 12ga, unless maybe I could get some good anti-personnel rounds for the AK. From what I understand, standard AK ball isn't a great man-stopper, and in the home, I'm not likely to face more then 2-3 threats or ranges greater then 10 yards.



This is why you use SP ammo for the AK...easily available from Federal, Winchester, Lapua.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:24:33 AM EDT
12 ga

shreds the innards

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:26:06 AM EDT
Rifle is longer range, smaller ammo (so you can carry more), larger capacity, and plenty powerful.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:33:50 AM EDT
If we're talking in the house or apartment, then a shotgun probably has less chance of unintended consequences. I'd probably choose a 9mm Beretta Storm for this role over a shotgun.

While the Storm is on my list to buy, I've got two AKs and no shotguns...
So in any/all SHTF scenarios, right now, I'd grab one of the AKs over my AR.

I hope to diversify my portfolio better in the near future.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:58:21 AM EDT
Another point is that if the bad guy(s) are wearing any sort of soft armor, neither the shotgun nor pistol caliber carbine is likely to be very effective. Yes you can make a headshot, not easy under stress, and most folk will aim for center of mass first, and then try to make the headshot when COM fails. In the meantime the BGs are shooting at you.

Rifle w/SPs will do better vs body armored BGs, IMHO. Yes, BGs can have rifle plates, but that's pretty rare..
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