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Posted: 2/15/2006 4:29:11 PM EDT
I work in downtown Minneapolis and take the bus to and from work (parking is too expensive). My bus stop is on Hennepin Ave on Block E. Block E is an area downtown that was known for it's high crime back in the day, but since the city rebuilt the area over the years, new businesses (mainly entertainment) and shops have come in and it is actually a fun place to hang out, drink, etc. Unfortunately this area still attracts the scum of Mpls.

I arrive at my bus stop this evening. I stand at my normal spot, against the building in front of the bus shelter. There are about 15 people there waiting for their buses as well. I had my headphones on and was listening to some tunes.

Within a minute or so, this rather large (approx. 6'2", 280 lbs, late 20's,) American African dressed in a black fur coat walks up to this short, pudgy White girl that is standing in the shelter. He had a couple of buddys with him. This guy starts YELLING at this girl at the top of his lungs. I still had my headphones on when it started, so I didn't get the beginning of it. Needless to say, the headphones went off immediately once I realized what was happening.

Some of his phrases were: Where the f***have you been? No f***ing *itch leaves me hanging. I told you to f***ing wait for me like you always do. You're so f***ing stupid. You better get your f***ing a** directly home. Well, you get the jist of it. Every other word was F this, F that. This guy is all up in her face and a couple of times, he pushed her against the glass of the bus shelter. His homies meanwhile are having a good old time laughing at the situation. She looked really scared and humiliated.

All of this is happening about 5 feet in front of me. I look around and everyone is just standing there. I don't know if they were in shock, or if they just didn't care. By this time, I already had my pepper spray in my left hand and had opened the hidden pocket in my shoulder bag which had my G23. This guy was very intimidating and even went so far as to warn the people around not to call the cops on their cell phones.

Thankfully the girl's bus arrived. As she was standing in line waiting to board, this idiot was still yelling at her, and at the people in line who were looking at them. Even when she sat down, he still yelled at her through the bus window while pounding on the glass (he didn't get on the bus). All of this took place within five minutes.

Looking back at this event, part of me feels guilty for not helping this girl. When I say help, I mean just asking her if she needed help or if she wanted me to call the police. The absolute last thing that I would want to do is to get in a fight with this guy and his homies. I don't know how much assistance I could've rendered, but if it would've relieved her from the pressure this guy was putting on her, I'm sure she would've appreciated it.

On the other hand, part of me is glad that I didn't get involved. This guy was crazy (or high on something) and I'm sure he would've thrown punches at me, not to mention what his buddys would've done. As I mentioned, I did have my pepper spray but I had doubts on how effective it would'be been on this guy. Draw down on him? The "Risk versus Reward" ratio was not to my advantage. Don't get me wrong, I would not feel one bit guilty shooting this guy, but I would have him (if he survived) and his family after every penny that I have. Sure it would've been self-defense (after he started attacking me of course), but some lawyer would argue that I was responsible by interfering.

During the ride home, I was so mad at this guy for treating that girl so badly. I was literally fuming in my seat. Now that I've calmed down, a part of me still feels a little guilty for not helping her. Should I feel guilty?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:40:06 PM EDT
Sounds like a Hooker/Pimp relationship.
She put herself in that situation.
Make your bed and lie in it, I always say.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:41:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 4:42:22 PM EDT by five2one]

One needs to be really careful when injecting oneself in a domestic squabble.

You were ready if needed.

eta: doesn't sound like a pimp/ho since the pimp hand remained sheathed,
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:43:23 PM EDT
I would wager that under different circumstances, the hand would have, indeed, become "unsheathed".
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:44:30 PM EDT
you did best staying out of that. Yelling is one thing...a physical altercation is another. The pepper spray would have gotten your ass kicked. The handgun is justifiable only if you believe her life was at stake (i.e. she was being choked etc)
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:48:10 PM EDT
You could have helped the girl, but if this dude's entourage could've been packin too.

The way I see it, you could've spoken up and in doing so provoked these guys to come after you. Then you recognize their desire to harm you, so you draw. They draw whatever they're carrying, and you had to assume they were, and you have a showdown. Basiclly, you're outgunned and there's the possibility these guys may shoot strays and harm bystanders in the ensuing fray.

I think you played it well; granted, you don't know her fate, but you do know she got away, and there wasn't a gunfight or any type of escalation. Don't feel guilty.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:49:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Botch:
you did best staying out of that. Yelling is one thing...a physical altercation is another. The pepper spray would have gotten your ass kicked. The handgun is justifiable only if you believe her life was at stake (i.e. she was being choked etc)



Not to start a shit storm in this thread, but if this guy was choking this woman, how is YOUR life threatened? If this had happened, would you be willing to risk (or trade) your life for hers?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:55:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:21:56 PM EDT by DienBienPhu54]
you should have called the cops on your cell phone

he was causing a public disturbance and being threatening and possibility of assault
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:57:05 PM EDT
I know in Texas you can justifibly use force to protect your life or someone else's. Now that being said, she isn't your mother, child or wife is she?

Tough call. But I think you did the right thing. Be alert, make ready. She left and the altercation ended without any serious violence.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:04:28 PM EDT
Ive pistol whipped a pimp for doing that, when I was working security in the early 90's
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:06:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:

Originally Posted By Botch:
you did best staying out of that. Yelling is one thing...a physical altercation is another. The pepper spray would have gotten your ass kicked. The handgun is justifiable only if you believe her life was at stake (i.e. she was being choked etc)



Not to start a shit storm in this thread, but if this guy was choking this woman, how is YOUR life threatened? If this had happened, would you be willing to risk (or trade) your life for hers?




Yes, deadly force is justifiable to save the life of another
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:17:50 PM EDT
Regardless of the law, I would've felt obligated to do something. Maybe not draw. But maybe get in between her and the guy. I'm a girl, so it wouldn't be as threatening to him and probably wouldn't start anything. If he touched me to get me away from the girl, it would be another story.

I would've probably been screwed. I often tend to get myself in trouble because of my convictions.

I'm a dumbass that way.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:22:46 PM EDT
Being as this was more along the lines of a domestic, and not really violent, per se, your action, or lack thereof was probably the best course of action. Remember, if you did do something, and someone got hurt/killed then you could be held liable. If something did go down, you were ready, which is all you could be at that time. If you got in the middle of a verbal dispute, nothing good would have come of it. She got pushed, which isn't right, but she wasn't in danger of being hurt by it. That guy was scum, but the laws protect scum more than they protect law abiding citizens........
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:23:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:

Originally Posted By Botch:
you did best staying out of that. Yelling is one thing...a physical altercation is another. The pepper spray would have gotten your ass kicked. The handgun is justifiable only if you believe her life was at stake (i.e. she was being choked etc)



Not to start a shit storm in this thread, but if this guy was choking this woman, how is YOUR life threatened? If this had happened, would you be willing to risk (or trade) your life for hers?



Let me guess - former neighbor of Kitty Genovese?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:24:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunchyck:
Regardless of the law, I would've felt obligated to do something. Maybe not draw. But maybe get in between her and the guy. I'm a girl, so it wouldn't be as threatening to him and probably wouldn't start anything. If he touched me to get me away from the girl, it would be another story.

I would've probably been screwed. I often tend to get myself in trouble because of my convictions.

I'm a dumbass that way.



The guy is a pimp.
He beats women for a living, and that is how he gets his rocks off.
It would make his day if you did that.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By gunchyck:
Regardless of the law, I would've felt obligated to do something. Maybe not draw. But maybe get in between her and the guy. I'm a girl, so it wouldn't be as threatening to him and probably wouldn't start anything. If he touched me to get me away from the girl, it would be another story.

I would've probably been screwed. I often tend to get myself in trouble because of my convictions.

I'm a dumbass that way.



The guy is a pimp.
He beats women for a living, and that is how he gets his rocks off.
It would make his day if you did that.



A stranger once told me, I will call 911 for anyone. Meaning if I don't know you, I'm not getting involved.

I think the is good advice. Of course the situation dictates it. If someone is in a rollover and is bleeding to death, this quote doesn't apply. Or if someone is about to get stabbed... you get the point.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:36:05 PM EDT
I rarely go to Minneapolis other than a few times a year so I am in a position to notice the slow change every time I do. It has been getting bad down there again to the point I no longer go there without packing. I think Minneapolis (Not the suburban area) has really gone downhill. We can probably thank all the liberals for that.

My opinion is you did the right thing. I think you could have wound up in a bad situation if you did anything else and her life was not in immediate danger. There are options for her if she chooses to get help for the harassment.

If you would have stepped in or called the police and the attacked you I would not have convicted you for shooting them if I was on the jury, but I wouldn't trust liberal Minneapolis to have the same logic.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:01:30 PM EDT
The brother of a friend of mine was a cop who responded to a domestic violence call. He was shot to death by the angry husband. Around here the police send two officers to a domestic violence call.

It would have been best to step out of the guy's line of sight and call 911. The last thing you would have wanted was this guy (and his friends) directing his rage at you for stepping in.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:05:47 PM EDT
In the real world circumstances sometimes prevent us from doing what we feel we should. If she would have asked for help or screamed then action should have been taken to stop the threat. If that was the case I'd be glad to pistol whip the S&*$%@ & be ready to follow up with deadly force if he even made a move toward me. Then his friends would stop laughing & either retreat or make their move. I'd draw down on them if they made a move toward me & shoot them all. Yea I'd probally get killed also but WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER ANYWAY!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:15:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 6:18:45 PM EDT by mnandy]

Originally Posted By Botch:

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:

Originally Posted By Botch:
you did best staying out of that. Yelling is one thing...a physical altercation is another. The pepper spray would have gotten your ass kicked. The handgun is justifiable only if you believe her life was at stake (i.e. she was being choked etc)



Not to start a shit storm in this thread, but if this guy was choking this woman, how is YOUR life threatened? If this had happened, would you be willing to risk (or trade) your life for hers?



Yes, deadly force is justifiable to save the life of another



This is what I found

here

I was told in the course I took that you could only defend yourself or an immediate family member. That information would appear to be incorrect????? Either way, I would have done exactly as the original poster did.
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