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Posted: 2/15/2006 8:29:35 AM EDT
I've been hearing these public service announcements with Gary Sinese asking us to, "Thank the troops for our freedom." I thank the troops for their service in protecting our nation and protecting our freedom. However, I refuse to thank the troops FOR "our freedom". Our freedom is derived from God, not the .GOV, Constitution, or the military. To some of you, this may seem like a petty disagreement with semantics. To me it is a distinction worth making. The military/gov does not give us "freedom". The power to give includes the power to take away. I think this PSA is aimed at the majority of sheeple in this country, who have no idea our rights are derived from God, not .GOV.

For the record, I'm not a , just a concerned conservative libertarian who believes in the Global War on Terror, a strong military/foreign policy, and tin foil hats.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:30:34 AM EDT
Ok then.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:34:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:34:35 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]
no, you're not a troll but that's kind of a nit picky way to look at it. they protected our freedoms from the nazis and the japanese. they fought communism. they're fighting a terrorist enemy that wants to destroy our way of life. that to me is fighting to maintain our freedom.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:34:26 AM EDT
september 2005
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:41:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:44:29 AM EDT by rugerp345]
May 2001. What's your point? I live in a rural area and didn't get high-speed wireless until last April. I didn't find this website until July or August 05. Sorry I didn't sign up right away. So what is the cut off date for not being a . Are only those who joined before Sept 11th not considered trolls?

This PSA is just another example of "Welfare State" mentality.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:42:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
May 2001. What's your point? I live in a rural area and didn't get high-speed wireless until last April. I didn't find this website until July or August 05. Sorry I didn't sign up right away. So what is the cut off date for not being a . Are only those who joined before Sept 11th not considered trolls?



no, the cutoff is whether their posts are stupid or not.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:43:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
concerned conservative libertarian



There is no such thing as a "Conervativ libertarian." Google "Classical liberalism".
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:44:33 AM EDT
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:45:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



It doesn't say 'providing' though.

They protect it.

Thats why you thank them for it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:46:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
no, you're not a troll but that's kind of a nit picky way to look at it. they protected our freedoms from the nazis and the japanese. they fought communism. they're fighting a terrorist enemy that wants to destroy our way of life. that to me is fighting to maintain our freedom.




A little nitpicky for sure, but I have no probelem with his belief that god made us free, and the finest military in the world keeps it that way.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:46:54 AM EDT
I must be the only ARFCOMMER who thinks that we owe our freedom to GOD, not GOV. Well, if you think I'm wrong, I don't want to be right.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:47:13 AM EDT
Who do you think is standing between you and the enemies of this country?

God doesn't seem to be inclined to intervene in the affairs of the various countries on Earth.

If you want to express thanks for the ability to have life, live in this world, or even for being born in the United States, by all means, thank God.

If you want to thank someone for keeping the wolf away from the door and ensuring that you won't be forced to choose between converting to Islam or getting your head chopped off, thank the people that make it happen.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:47:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I must be the only ARFCOMMER who thinks that we owe our freedom to GOD, not GOV. Well, if you think I'm wrong, I don't want to be right.



and the troll signs continue.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:47:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
May 2001. What's your point? I live in a rural area and didn't get high-speed wireless until last April. I didn't find this website until July or August 05. Sorry I didn't sign up right away. So what is the cut off date for not being a . Are only those who joined before Sept 11th not considered trolls?



I predict 10 pages and a lock.

Gary Senise is a highly successful critically acclaimed actor that puts life and limb in danger (not to mention his career in Commywood ) to tour with the USO in order to thank and show support for the troops. And yes, you are a troll.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:49:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:51:48 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:50:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I must be the only ARFCOMMER who thinks that we owe our freedom to GOD, not GOV. Well, if you think I'm wrong, I don't want to be right.


hell no, you're not the only one who believes that here but i think you're reading way too much into a 30 second commercial.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:50:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
Who do you think is standing between you and the enemies of this country?

God doesn't seem to be inclined to intervene in the affairs of the various countries on Earth.

If you want to express thanks for the ability to have life, live in this world, or even for being born in the United States, by all means, thank God.

If you want to thank someone for keeping the wolf away from the door and ensuring that you won't be forced to choose between converting to Islam or getting your head chopped off, thank the people that make it happen.




Right on!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:50:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
May 2001. What's your point? I live in a rural area and didn't get high-speed wireless until last April. I didn't find this website until July or August 05. Sorry I didn't sign up right away. So what is the cut off date for not being a . Are only those who joined before Sept 11th not considered trolls?



I predict 10 pages and a lock.

Gary Senise is a highly successful critically acclaimed actor that puts life and limb in danger (not to mention his career in Commywood ) to tour with the USO in order to thank and show support for the troops. And yes, you are a troll.



I really don't think that he is taking anything away from the men in uniform.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:50:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 9:18:49 AM EDT by Grunteled]
Without the troops your God given rights wouldn't amount to as much as the splatter of brain matter that would result from using them under the rule of some that would seek world domination.

If you can't understand that then troll is too kind a term.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:51:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:55:06 AM EDT
so does anyone else hear a bell ding at the point a thread heads downhill?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:59:51 AM EDT
DING!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:01:30 AM EDT
God didnt sign the constitution, so if you want to thank anyone who is not .mil for your freedom, you could start by thanking the founding fathers. Our freedoms were granted and made irrevocable by the FF, and for the past 230 years, the US Military has been keeping it that way.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 9:37:25 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
forsakethetroops.com is down.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:11:00 AM EDT
If God gave us our freedom, why is it that for the VAST MAJORITY of human history, the VAST MAJORITY of humans have been serfs/slaves/peasants under the vassalage of autocratic rulers?
No, freedom wasn't GIVEN to us...people SIEZED their freedom at the bloody end of a sword or the smoking barrel of a gun. Freedom isn't a "natural" condition, it's an incredibly ballsy experiment in human social interaction that has to be hammered through the thick skulls of those not raised to be used to the idea.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:17:06 AM EDT
I wish God would've stepped in and saved me the 22 months that I spent in Iraq.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:52:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By geezhound:
I wish God would've stepped in and saved me the 22 months that I spent in Iraq.



No kidding, And thank you on behalf of my whole family for helping keep us safe and free.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:57:19 AM EDT
Yes, we derive our freedom from God, but who do you think protects that same freedom from those who would invade us and imprison our population?

Do you really think God would come down and free us? I am a Christian, but God does not work that way.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:58:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



The might not PROVIDE that freedom, but they sure as hell PROTECT that freedom. Oooohhhh, they are an agency of the government so they must be automatically a bad thing.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:59:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
no, you're not a troll but that's kind of a nit picky way to look at it. they protected our freedoms from the nazis and the japanese. they fought communism. they're fighting a terrorist enemy that wants to destroy our way of life. that to me is fighting to maintain our freedom.




A little nitpicky for sure, but I have no probelem with his belief that god made us free, and the finest military in the world keeps it that way.



You don't think that is deserving of thanks to those who do or have put themselves in harm's way for the rest of us?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:04:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
no, you're not a troll but that's kind of a nit picky way to look at it. they protected our freedoms from the nazis and the japanese. they fought communism. they're fighting a terrorist enemy that wants to destroy our way of life. that to me is fighting to maintain our freedom.


Well said.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:23:41 AM EDT
If you have to be reminded please dont bother
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:29:51 AM EDT
I don't live in Fantasyland. I don't believe that God would come down to Earth and protect us. My original post is about the "source" of our freedom. I am speaking in terms of political theory. The founding fathers did not believe that our freedom was derived from a standing army, but apparently some of you do. And I clearly stated that the military is deserving of our thanks for protecting us. My disagreement is with the wording of the PSA. That's all.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:31:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 10:31:27 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
Ok, whatever
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:33:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



+1.

Thanks for protecting/guarding ou freedom. But they don't hand it out to us like FEMA debit cards or something.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:27:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I don't live in Fantasyland. I don't believe that God would come down to Earth and protect us. My original post is about the "source" of our freedom. I am speaking in terms of political theory. The founding fathers did not believe that our freedom was derived from a standing army, but apparently some of you do.



Our freedom is derived from ideas and ideals. But it's PRESERVED by force.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:32:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 11:36:16 AM EDT by copenhagen]

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



Write the guys and thanks them for their service to our country and its citizens. There is no need to thank them for your freedom. The military however safe guards all of our freedoms. So does your participation in the process of government. We get the government we deserve. Does anybody have the web site to send the troops a thank you???????? I have heard the ad but keep forgeting the web site.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:35:40 AM EDT
"Deny me before men and I will deny you before our Father"
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:39:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By geezhound:
I wish God would've stepped in and saved me the 22 months that I spent in Iraq.




Well your service is appreciated here. Thanks!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:40:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 11:42:00 AM EDT by Currahee]
Your distinction is absurd

I can not think of a freedom that was granted without someone willing to fight for it. That's why we are losing our freedoms now, because we are not willing to fight for them...

Who gave us our freedom?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:16:23 PM EDT
I'm glad your strong of faith, but you wouldn't be able to even pratice your religion of choice if they werent soldiers to fight the facists, the communists or the terrorists.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
"Deny me before men and I will deny you before our Father"



No one is denying Christ or God. That is not what this is about.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:49:09 PM EDT
Totally agree,

I am in the Army, and I am not protecting anyone's "freedom", If anything, a strong standing army hurts our "freedom" (i.e. Delta Force at Waco)

just their security.

for you who said troll, get a clue
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:59:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 1:04:00 PM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
Totally agree,

I am in the Army, and I am not protecting anyone's "freedom", If anything, a strong standing army hurts our "freedom" (i.e. Delta Force at Waco)

just their security.

for you who said troll, get a clue



Someone else needs to get a clue....Or should have thought a little more about joining the Army before doing so. The American people are counting one you.

What Army are you in where you did not take an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America- "Both Foreign and Domestic..."

If it is a Force Recon Marine, an Army Ranger, an Air Force admin guy or a Salior checking out basketballs for the MWR, it is all for our freedom.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:01:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Freakzilla:
Totally agree,

I am in the Army, and I am not protecting anyone's "freedom", If anything, a strong standing army hurts our "freedom" (i.e. Delta Force at Waco)

just their security.

for you who said troll, get a clue



Sorry to have to disagree with you, James, but if we didn't have a standing army, we would be invaded in a heartbeat and there would go our freedom.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:14:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



The might not PROVIDE that freedom, but they sure as hell PROTECT that freedom. Oooohhhh, they are an agency of the government so they must be automatically a bad thing.



Fine. They do protect our freedom, and I agree with you completely about that. But it's a different thing to PROTECT than to PROVIDE.

As far as an agency of the government automatically being a bad thing, you're just being silly. That's not what I said and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:47:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Greenfeet:
I tend to agree with the distinction.

Seems nit picky to some, but if we say the military (an agency of the government) provides our freedoms, then you have to believe that the .gov has the authority to take those freedoms away.

I agree, it's worth distinguishing.



The might not PROVIDE that freedom, but they sure as hell PROTECT that freedom. Oooohhhh, they are an agency of the government so they must be automatically a bad thing.



Fine. They do protect our freedom, and I agree with you completely about that. But it's a different thing to PROTECT than to PROVIDE.

As far as an agency of the government automatically being a bad thing, you're just being silly. That's not what I said and I'm pretty sure you know that.




YOU are the one that added "(a government agency)" as if making a statement about it.

As for them protecting our freedom, what's that damn difference? I believe in Christ and God, but neither is going to interfere with the interactions of man. If we did not have our military, we sure as hell would be under the thumb of Hitler, Stalin, or even the Mexican government (the war with Mexico in the 1800s).

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:02:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rugerp345:
I don't live in Fantasyland. I don't believe that God would come down to Earth and protect us. My original post is about the "source" of our freedom. I am speaking in terms of political theory. The founding fathers did not believe that our freedom was derived from a standing army, but apparently some of you do. And I clearly stated that the military is deserving of our thanks for protecting us. My disagreement is with the wording of the PSA. That's all.

Only in the sense that God intended for all people to be free.

Our freedom is provided by the Constitution. The only reason the Constitution is still valid is that we have a strong standing military to back it up.

If not for our military, we would likely still be British subjects. Or Japanese subjects. Or Soviet subjects. Or Chinese subjects. Or living under forced Muslim rule.

I believe in God completely. I believe that God's will is for all people to be free. However, God does not seem to take any action regarding our freedom. It was men that declared our independence, and it has been men that have backed it up for the last 230 years.

God has not granted us freedom any more than he has denied freedom to Christians in communist countries, the Middle East, or Africa. Our rewards from God come after this life. Until then, it is up to us to maintain our freedom. That is done by our military.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:06:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

The might not PROVIDE that freedom, but they sure as hell PROTECT that freedom.




And in my book, that makes them justifiably deserving of my gratitude. I make little distinction between providing and protecting. One cannot exist without the other.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:14:21 PM EDT
All volunteer military.

If they didnt step up, war or not, you could be like a conscript.

Thank them for YOUR freedom.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:56:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By killingmachine123:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
no, you're not a troll but that's kind of a nit picky way to look at it. they protected our freedoms from the nazis and the japanese. they fought communism. they're fighting a terrorist enemy that wants to destroy our way of life. that to me is fighting to maintain our freedom.




A little nitpicky for sure, but I have no probelem with his belief that god made us free, and the finest military in the world keeps it that way.



You don't think that is deserving of thanks to those who do or have put themselves in harm's way for the rest of us?



Who on this thread has said that the military men and women don't deserve our sincere respect and thanks? I think there is little we can do to truly show how gratful we are. They protect our freedom on a daily basis, and there is no doubt about it.

As I stated earlier, it is a really nitpicky statement to begin with. However, I don't think that there is anything wrong with stating that our freedom is a god given right, and the military protects them for us. Yes, they are well deserving of our thanks, and I like to make it known whenever possible.

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