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Posted: 2/15/2006 7:21:45 AM EDT
Seems like some of the movies I've "backed up" start to show some skipping/pixelation in viewing. ASAIK they didn't start out that way and they generally don't have any kind of serious wer on the surface... I'm just wondering if the blank DVD's are of some sort of lesser quality in terms of holding the "data" that's been burned to them?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:28:15 AM EDT
They degrade over time. The dye used in them can degrade from light and contact with air. Some of the cheap brands (hard to know since they are rebranded all the time) fail pretty quick when stored in not so great condition. I've had some that were full of errors within months of writing them. Just poorly made.

You should probably date them and cycle the copies every few years. If you find disks that last... buy lots of them. You may not be able to find that type again.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:45:27 AM EDT
I've discovered that the better quality disks do last a lot longer, particularly where certain types of rexcreational software is concerned....

I now only use disks made by Ridisc, and avoid Bulkpak completely.

Just my opinion
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:51:54 AM EDT
So spindled TDK or Maxell is pretty much crapage?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:58:59 AM EDT
Those are just who is selling them .

Who knows who really made them ?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:01:04 AM EDT
I agree with Grunteled on his point of buying in bulk, I tend to buy a full box of good ones....

I use this site over here, but tend to stick to the AAA Grade G05's....

I found that when I first started, I bought cheap as possible and these are now the bane of my collection.....
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:03:36 AM EDT
All disks degrade over time. It takes many years, but all the cd's and dvd's we own will eventually be useless.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:07:29 AM EDT
I called Sony tech support on this question a few years ago, and the guy said that their "Sony DVD media is rated to last 25 years, but they really don't know how long it will as last."
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:28:07 AM EDT by maddog71]

Originally Posted By macro:
All disks degrade over time. It takes many years, but all the cd's and dvd's we own will eventually be useless.



All RECORDABLE discs can degrade over time. Factory pressed discs do not degrade appreciably but still can be damaged like any other type.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:59:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:03:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 10:09:43 AM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By maddog71:

Originally Posted By macro:
All disks degrade over time. It takes many years, but all the cd's and dvd's we own will eventually be useless.



All RECORDABLE discs can degrade over time. Factory pressed discs do not degrade appreciably but still can be damaged like any other type.



Factory DVDs do have an issue. If they start to seperate the lamanate layers a bit they will start to "rot" from the edges. The studios won't fess up to it nor rplace them when they fail.... but you don't need to be able to copy them because they are like unobtianium in that they can not be damaged (wink). You don't have to handle them poorly or store them in a car trunk in Florida to be affected either.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:06:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
What kills recorded optical disks:

1. POOR HANDLING. Even small scratches on the bottom surface (where it is read from) can cause skips and/or data loss, and small scratches on the top can expose the dye layer to air and moisture. Disks should go from their case into the player and back while being gripped only by the edges and the center hole. Disks should not be set down, or stored in sleeves that make contact with the disk surface.

2. Sunlight. The dye layer on a recordable disk is very vulnerable to heat and ultraviolet radiation, which will break down the dye and make the disk unreadable.

3. Poor quality media. Manufacturers' quality varies a lot, and most of the "brand names" source their disks from other sources, and aren't necessarily consistant with their source. For example, a TDK disk that you buy today may come from a totally different plant than one you buy next month. The best solution is to buy in bulk from the top manufacturers (Google!).

-Troy



I think the top layer is actually required for proper reading of the die layer. Scratch that and the data there is dead.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:14:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
So spindled TDK or Maxell is pretty much crapage?



Maybe, maybe not. I have some TDK that are great. 4x speed recordables. I never have errors writing to them and they have lasted years. I have some new Verbatim from Walmart. They are F'n junk. I get data errors on freshly written disks and I have to try 2 or 3 times to get a disk that will verify. Useless. I have older Verbatim 2x disks that work perfectly.

I bought a 100 disk spindel of the TDK 4x when I saw them being clearanced at Best Buy. It's hard to keep up with which are selling crap and which are selling good stuff. There are some vendors that are selling "archival quality" DVDs, but NOBODY knows for certain how long they will last. They haven't been out in the wild long enough.

They are also degrading while sitting in the spindel so don't think you can hoard up a 10 year supply of them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:25:39 AM EDT
Grunteled: try recording at a slower speed, that may clear up some errors.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:29:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
Grunteled: try recording at a slower speed, that may clear up some errors.



Mines a 2x write drive. Can't get much slower

It's a good drive, but the cheaper the disks are getting the more issues I'm running into.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:47:33 AM EDT
If you are getting errors while writing new disks, you may want to upgrade the rom on your writer. New disk may not be compatible with your drive until its rom is upgraded.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:49:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
I think the top layer is actually required for proper reading of the die layer. Scratch that and the data there is dead.



This is true for CDs but not DVDs. The dye layer on the DVD is in the middle sandwiched between plastic.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:58:54 AM EDT
Is part of the reason for the pixelation possibly from the compression? I know it's pretty hard to get an exact copy of a DVD and that it will invariably need to be compressed slightly unless you don't mind it spanning across two discs.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:00:42 AM EDT
thanks for this thread. i now have a little understanding why some of my DVD back-ups are freezing up while playing. and some of these are only on their 2nd viewing since recording to the disk. but i do know that i did buy the cheap bulk on e-bay. this is starting to make since to me now.

thanks guys
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:04:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Samstead:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
I think the top layer is actually required for proper reading of the die layer. Scratch that and the data there is dead.



This is true for CDs but not DVDs. The dye layer on the DVD is in the middle sandwiched between plastic.



You are correct. I just looked that up.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:07:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Is part of the reason for the pixelation possibly from the compression? I know it's pretty hard to get an exact copy of a DVD and that it will invariably need to be compressed slightly unless you don't mind it spanning across two discs.



It should never "break up" due to compression where it breaks into small blocks that seem to hang around for a while with the old image in them while some others still have live video. Compression will increase the effect of blocks in the darker areas and reduce detail in the overall picture.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:08:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Samstead:
If you are getting errors while writing new disks, you may want to upgrade the rom on your writer. New disk may not be compatible with your drive until its rom is upgraded.



I'll look at that. I'd rather not toss 50 of them, but then again I don't trust them now.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:29:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By warlord:
Grunteled: try recording at a slower speed, that may clear up some errors.



Mines a 2x write drive. Can't get much slower

It's a good drive, but the cheaper the disks are getting the more issues I'm running into.


I would try 1X, if that fails, I think you're drive is starting to fail. I have a DVD/CD-RW drive that had all kinds of errors when it was failing. The newer drives are head and shoulders about those ancient drives even from a few years ago. Newer DL drives can record at 16X.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:34:19 AM EDT
Have you tried them on another DVD player?

Maybe your DVD player is getting crappy. Happened to me and I thought it was the discs.

As for bulk, makes no difference. I buy Ricoh manufactured in bulk and have had zero problems.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:35:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By warlord:
Grunteled: try recording at a slower speed, that may clear up some errors.



Mines a 2x write drive. Can't get much slower

It's a good drive, but the cheaper the disks are getting the more issues I'm running into.


I would try 1X, if that fails, I think you're drive is starting to fail. I have a DVD/CD-RW drive that had all kinds of errors when it was failing. The newer drives are head and shoulders about those ancient drives even from a few years ago. Newer DL drives can record at 16X.



There is no 1X option. It's a 2X drive.... period. I've been looking but I don't want to spend the cash on it. Mine works fine with the supply of disks I now have. Maybe when they run out.

The drive issues asside I have had brands of disks that developed errors less than 1 year after writing to them. They were stored in a dry cabnet and never exposed to much light. I think those were Maxell. My TDKs have been working fine for years now.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:35:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Have you tried them on another DVD player?
Maybe your DVD player is getting crappy. Happened to me and I thought it was the discs.
As for bulk, makes no difference. I buy Ricoh manufactured in bulk and have had zero problems.



Sometimes that works... other times it doesn't. No science to it... just kind of hit or miss.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:37:55 AM EDT
CNET emailed me a notice the other day that said from tests it appears that cheaped burned DVD and CDS will last about 2 years. Better quality ones will last longer. AND they stated as stated above, it is hard to tell the quality of them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:43:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bunnyassassin:
I've discovered that the better quality disks do last a lot longer, particularly where certain types of rexcreational software is concerned....

Just my opinion



There's your problem. You need to wash up afterwards before handling the DVDs
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:57:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Seems like some of the movies I've "backed up" start to show some skipping/pixelation in viewing. ASAIK they didn't start out that way and they generally don't have any kind of serious wer on the surface... I'm just wondering if the blank DVD's are of some sort of lesser quality in terms of holding the "data" that's been burned to them?



Taiyo Yuden discs are the best...get them, not the el cheapos.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:19:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
CNET emailed me a notice the other day that said from tests it appears that cheaped burned DVD and CDS will last about 2 years. Better quality ones will last longer. AND they stated as stated above, it is hard to tell the quality of them.



That's funny because the movie I was watching today I probably burned almost exactly two years ago. I keep my DVD's in one of those CD binders. I got sick of cases. I've seen arguements on the best way to store them... I think they get scratched up (in my house) bad enough in the cases so I went that route.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:25:34 PM EDT

TDK Armor plated DVD-R are supposed to be the ultimate

www.cdrlabs.com/articles/index.php?articleid=23
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