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Posted: 2/14/2006 8:57:48 PM EDT
On the news they make it look like it was all Dick Cheneys friends fault that he was shot. Not the VP's, They said his friend came back unannounced, got in the lince of fire.

But what about the rule....Know your target.... and whats beyond it. So the VP it seems is alot more

at fault it seem.I know these bird was quickly flying away,but still in a split second you should be able to determine that.

And I guess this really kill our chances of getting any pro gun legistaion in a Republican congress. How are you gonna be a gun advocate for a law and your all over tv shooing someone.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:09:14 PM EDT
Absolutely!!

IMO, regardless of where the other guy was standing or what he was doing it was still Cheneys fault.

Like you said KNow your target AND what is beyond it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:15:42 PM EDT
I almost (almost) did the same thing when I was 14, it was Cheney's fault hands down. He should have been more cautious. On the other hand accidents do happen and I for one will not fault a man for making a misatke and I would go on a hunt with Cheney any day.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:17:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:15:33 PM EDT
Yes your name is on every round you send down range.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:34:17 PM EDT
Anytime you hunt with old people, young inexperienced people or any other person in general you increase your chance of being the victim of human error and regardless of what some around here preach, it does exist and will/can happen to anybody.

I have been sprayed with #7.5 birdshot at a distance of about 50 yards directly in the back and lower legs. It stung like hell but luckily nothing made it through my jacket or jeans.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
Yes your name is on every round you send down range.



Sig line material right there...
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:39:25 PM EDT
You know - its hard for me to condemn the VP unless I knew where everyone was.

When I go hunting and we are in a line, we all have cones of fire. If this guy showed up in a cone of fire while he was swinging through a bird, bad things could happen in a split second.

I mean - you have a 78 year old guy here. I would give him an equal chance of walking around oblivious.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:55:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 10:58:32 PM EDT by johnrj]
I would hope that I would have been able to catch myself the moment my peripheral vision caught sight of the danger...but realizing bird hunting, suppose Cheney was following the bird and as we all know, we don't stop swinging when squeezing the trigger...and he was already squeezing the trigger beyond the point of no return and he shot with his muzzle still moving in that direction...(was he using a double? that provides a blind spot) ..if you were explaining what to do in that situation you'd suggest perhaps pulling your muzzle up but maybe he didn't get the guy in the sight picture because he was focused on the birds...?? Did the guy rise up from picking up a bird just when he shot?

Maybe he did try to check his muzzle and pull off into some other direction but wasn't quick enough...

it will be a tough call because it happened so fast and unexpectedly...He didn't "know the guy was there and foolishly tried to shoot the bird past him or over him anyway"...

We recently read of cops shooting an unarmed guy on the ground , a cop shooting a kid with a toy gun, a cop shooting someone with a cell phone and again another time with a wallet and even shooting a guy with his hands up and nothing in his hands...
Those police shoot much more than Cheney and are trained for the unexpected and they still don't see what is in front of them...thy still see things that are not there and don't see things that are...
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 11:00:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 11:00:54 PM EDT by swingset]
How many dogs have been hit by a cone of birdshot because of a bad swing?

More than I care to imagine. Same here.....if Cheney was swinging through, and someone pops up in that cone, whala.

Is it his fault? Absolutely, but standing downrange HAS TO give you a share of the responsibility.

That said, Cheney is a royal PUSSY for not standing up, from the outset and publicaly taking some personal responsibility for what he did. I mean that. If you don't owe up to shooting your buddy, even if understandably, you are a pussy.

If he had done that from the get-go, all this would have gone away very quickly.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:13:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:15:17 AM EDT
Firearms safety applies no matter what you're doing.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:21:38 AM EDT
Whie I think the other person acted a little foolish in not telling the others what he was doing and shares some blame, there is no doubt where the buck stops when your projectile lands in another person. None. You are at fault and you have to take care of it.

I can understand how it happened but that doesn't make it any less the VP's fault.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:22:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
Yes your name is on every round you send down range.




Yep, I agree
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:28:14 AM EDT
yes, but sometimes shit happens..
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:31:03 AM EDT
Yes.

And while we're reiterating obvious things....

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Also, don't pee on an electric fence.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:31:48 AM EDT
At least Cheney wasn't out shooting all his Class 3's when it happened. Can you imagine the Libtards howling if the accidental shooting had happened with a machine gun?

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:31:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:
Yes.

And while we're reiterating obvious things....

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Also, don't pee on an electric fence.




Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:32:53 AM EDT
here in NE when i took hunter education (because for some reason they wouldn't accept my Iowa one ) they informed us that as long as the "victim" isn't violating any regulations or laws then it's 100% the shooter's fault. if, say, it's rifle season, where blaze orange on head, chest and back is mandatory (LAW), and some idiot is sitting in a treestand fully camouflaged and no blaze orange and gets shot, it's considered the victim's fault and not the hunter's.

that would be the only time around here.

dick needs to man up and accept responsibility (in public) for what he did. I'm sure he feels like total and complete dog crap right now, but he should try to learn something from the japanese about saving face (his own, of course--his friend's is half gone).
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:36:10 AM EDT
I started hunting quail when I was 6.
I got my ass chewed more times than I can count for not staying on line with the other hunters.

That said, Dick broke rule 4. Bottom line. He pulled the trigger, he's responsible for what happens after the shot leaves the bbl. A very good friend of mine got shot hunting dove last September...Same situation, the trigger puller broke rule 4.

When in doubt, pull up...you'll never go wrong by not pulling the trigger and no one will think less of you for it.


Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:36:32 AM EDT
I thought Cheney was the type of guy who would sack up and face the cameras, even if for no other reason to say, "It was nothing more than an accident. I'm doing what I can to rectify the situation and all you hounds can blow me."

Guess I was wrong.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:40:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
I thought Cheney was the type of guy who would sack up and face the cameras, even if for no other reason to say, "It was nothing more than an accident. I'm doing what I can to rectify the situation and all you hounds can blow me."

Guess I was wrong.



I think THAT picture of the Veep is appropriate here. Anyone got it?

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:41:39 AM EDT
When I am in a hunting line it does not matter where I am standing, middle or edge I do not shoot at a bird unless it flies in front of me. If I flies across my path good to go. It it is out of my cone of fire I do not shoot, even if I am on the end of the line. That way I do not develop habits I will repeat when I am not on the end of the line.

Cheneys fault.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:43:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:44:10 AM EDT
I give him the benefit of the doubt on manning up to the mistake until his friend is out of trouble.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:45:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Folks, wear blaze orange when bird hunting--just a cap or vest will do. It helps someone swinging to pick you out against the background.



What if yer used to shooting blaze orange clay pigeons??? Ya know... train how ya fight, and all.



Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:52:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:53:31 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
Sure they do, but there are lots of failures in what has been reported.

1) When walking a bird hunting line, you are instructed to shoot between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. Don't overswing to 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock as someone is probably standing there, and certainly don't turn around and shoot. Hold the line. Keep even with one another.

2) The guides are the RSO's, they have control of the hunting party/line. If you leave the line FOR ANY REASON, the guide should be told about it. Which means the guide should be in control of both the hunter who left the line and the hunters still on the line.

3) Rejoining a group should be announced, because you may end up in someone's shot area if you aren't aware of where the group is heading.

From the sounds of it, there was too much lax bullshit going on while they were in the field.

On a side note, if you are at a shooting range and some dumbass were to walk in front of the firing line while it was hot and get clipped by a round -- whose fault would it be?? Not an NRA rigid shooting lane line, but a firing line like Bulletfest or Knob Creek where you may shoot at angles.

It would certainly be some fault in the shooter, as he should have seen the person in front of the line, but there is certainly fault on the dumbass for walking into the firing area.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:09:10 AM EDT
I thought Cheney DID make a statement.

At any rate - he has been visiting his friend several times in the hospital. Honestly - this is a PRIVATE matter. We arent owed an apology. The guy he shot does.

Just because you are a public figure, doesnt mean every thing you do should be public. This has NOTHING TO DO with the running of our Gov.

I dont want to hear W. apologize on TV everytime he gave himself a mulligan while playing golf.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:24:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 9:26:17 AM EDT by callgood]

Originally Posted By garandman:
Yes.

And while we're reiterating obvious things....

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Also, don't pee on an electric fence. or over it, either




Fixed. My brother did that once and provided much entertainment once the stream began to dry up.

This quail hunt doesn't resemble any I have been on- using planted pen-raised birds and driving them a la pheasant??

If so, the "I didn't know he was back" deal is irrelevant. Sure, the lawyer should have spoken up, and should not have advanced in front of the line, but the ultimate responsibility belongs to the shooter. He must know at all times the status to either side before shooting.

ETA


Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Folks, wear blaze orange when bird hunting--just a cap or vest will do. It helps someone swinging to pick you out against the background.



What if yer used to shooting blaze orange clay pigeons??? Ya know... train how ya fight, and all.






That's a DAMN good point. I only buy the yellow ones. Won't have the blaze orange birds.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:30:59 AM EDT
As in most situations like this, virtually all parties are at fault. Had the victim not approached unannounced, it would not have happened. Had the Veep been more careful and followed good hunting/shooting safety rules, it would not have happened. Take out just ONE mistake and this mishap never occurs.

Damn shame...hope the old boy recovers fully without problems and I hope Mr. Cheney gets some training or quits hunting.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:31:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Folks, wear blaze orange when bird hunting--just a cap or vest will do. It helps someone swinging to pick you out against the background.



What if yer used to shooting blaze orange clay pigeons??? Ya know... train how ya fight, and all.






That's a DAMN good point. I only buy the yellow ones. Won't have the blaze orange birds.



I hate it when I'm TRYING to make a joke, but a I make a good point instead. I'm just no good at comedy.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:33:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:


That said, Cheney is a royal PUSSY for not standing up, from the outset and publicaly taking some personal responsibility for what he did. I mean that. If you don't owe up to shooting your buddy, even if understandably, you are a pussy.

If he had done that from the get-go, all this would have gone away very quickly.



If you believe that, then you don't know the mainstream media.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:38:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By junebug68:
Firearms safety applies no matter what you're doing.


Yup.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:38:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By swingset:


That said, Cheney is a royal PUSSY for not standing up, from the outset and publicaly taking some personal responsibility for what he did. I mean that. If you don't owe up to shooting your buddy, even if understandably, you are a pussy.

If he had done that from the get-go, all this would have gone away very quickly.



If you believe that, then you don't know the mainstream media.



I'm gonna reserve judgment on it all UNTIL I hear the lawyer dude speak.

Till that NO ONE knows the WHOLE story, and are just speaking out their poo hole.



Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:45:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
Anytime you hunt with old people, young inexperienced people or any other person in general you increase your chance of being the victim of human error and regardless of what some around here preach, it does exist and will/can happen to anybody.





Define "old people", please.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:19:46 AM EDT
What probably happened was he was so locked onto the bird he tunneled out and as he was firing swept his huntin' buddy. It doesn't make it right but it happens.

Usually the pellets energy is spent pretty quick and thick clothing will stop it, but I guess he was pretty close
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:49:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Usually the pellets energy is spent pretty quick and thick clothing will stop it, but I guess he was pretty close



Whittington is lucky they were quail hunting and not pheasant hunting and even more lucky that Cheney likes 28ga instead of 20 or 12ga....

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:12:41 PM EDT
I believe there was a failure of situational awareness on the part of all involved. When hunting in close proximity of one another, it is critical to know where everyone is. Not just "tell me where you are", but "tell me where you are and I'll ask if I don't know".

I also agree that every round is the responsiblity of the one who sent it that way. Better situational awareness might have prevented this event.
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