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Posted: 2/14/2006 4:27:57 PM EDT
This one really got under my skin for some reason and it is the only "problem" I have really ever had with anybody I have done business with.

About a year ago I was going to order three stripped Stag lowers and have them transferred to a local dealer.


- First shop wants $30 per lower, will not negotiate, I even offered him $45 for all three. He sticks with $90 or nothing, so he gets nothing.This guy had done a single transfer for me in the past, nice guy but he was strict about one transfer fee per serial number.

- Stop by a shop where I had bought a few handguns in the past. They want $40 per lower to transfer them in !!!! $252 worth of lowers and they want $120 transfer fee. Would not budge on that even though it all fits right there in the three blank spaces on one 4473. Guy says "why do you want these POS Stag lowers when I got Bushmaster Stripped lowers right here for $199 a piece Screw them onto the next shop.

- Next guy at a pawn shop wants $75 for the three Stag lowers. This is getting ridiculous.

- I finally get a shop that transfers all three for me for $45. I say "I'm buying three stripped AR-15 lowers, what is your transfer fee ?" He just replies that if they are all from the same place it is his flat rate of $45, still high but the best so far and I didn't feel like searching around anymore.

Luckily I have a C&R FFL 03 and have never had to pay a transfer on those types of firearms because I have done multiple orders on more than a few a couple of occasions. I have only had more than one firearm involved in a transfer on two occasions (both were orders of three stripped AR lowers). The above happened the first time I attempted it. Now luckily I have since moved and now I have a great FFL guy right down the road at a Bait shop/sporting goods store that does $25 per ORDER, not per serial number. I just picked up 3 more lowers today so the above experience was back on my mind.

Anybody else ever had the same problem ?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:37:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:41:25 PM EDT
His licence, his prices, he provides you a service and uses his FFL

I fail to see any problem it only makes sense to charge per Serial #.


Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:41:29 PM EDT
I feel your pain and agree with it , however
we used to be 1 form 1 fee
well guess what guys started abusing it
I had many transfers of 10 15 or 20 surplus rifles
so now 1 SN one fee
for good customers I will still do the 1 fee per form but there are many guys the only thing i ever see them for is transfers and they never buy anything else
The amount of work involved is the same if it is a barrett 82 or lorcin
we looked at total time spent per transfer it figures to about 30 minutes
go anyplace mechinic, doctor, chriopractor , TV repair man whatever and see what 1/2 labor costs

I agree with you but guys have abused it and you get what you have now
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:50:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
It's his license, he can charge what he wants. I hope the guy makes a dozen transfers a day at that price. Although, I'm sure he won't. Most people with sense will do like you & find a reasonably priced dealer. Capitalism - more power to it.

btw, good luck on your builds. What are your plans?



I completely agree that they have every right to charge what they want and I have every right not to pay it I built a 20" with a A3 upper and detachable carry handle when I got the first three a year ago. Next I'm gonna build a 16" and maybe get an A2 upper and swap them around so I can have the flattop on the 16". My AR stuff has been on the backburner a bit because I got into building AK's and was using funds to purchase some kits, tools, etc.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:53:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC88-93:
His licence, his prices, he provides you a service and uses his FFL

I fail to see any problem it only makes sense to charge per Serial #.





I guess my main issue was the fact that three lowers only cost $252 so it would have been tough to swallow spending nearly half the purchase price to have them transferred, like the one shop wanted. I could understand if it was three complete rifles and a $2500 order or something, like some have the $30 transfer or 10% whichever is greater.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:55:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:55:27 PM EDT
Buy used F2F screw the .gov.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:56:05 PM EDT
My guy is pretty cool last batch of 3 receivers was $10 total , he called the other night to let me know that I had another order there, and when I told him there was still another on the way also he said if I wanted to wait it could all be done at once for $10 again
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:57:19 PM EDT
I would think some of the transfer fee charges would be intentionally high in an attempt to get you to purchase local merchandise.

You did say one shop had Bushmaster lowers. He would obviously prefer you to purchase his stock on hand. If the transfer fee is enough to get you to think about his local merchandise than he needs to set his transfer fees that high
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:59:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Is that the 20" build in your avatar?



Yes
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Screw them onto the next shop.






And here I thought a business owner had the right to set his own fees???? Silly me.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:00:15 PM EDT
FACT: requiring an FFL, 4473, etc are all violations of the 2A
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:00:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I feel your pain and agree with it , however
we used to be 1 form 1 fee
well guess what guys started abusing it
I had many transfers of 10 15 or 20 surplus rifles
so now 1 SN one fee
for good customers I will still do the 1 fee per form but there are many guys the only thing i ever see them for is transfers and they never buy anything else
The amount of work involved is the same if it is a barrett 82 or lorcin
we looked at total time spent per transfer it figures to about 30 minutes
go anyplace mechinic, doctor, chriopractor , TV repair man whatever and see what 1/2 labor costs

I agree with you but guys have abused it and you get what you have now



So how long was the school you had to attend to be able to fill out the 4473? Was it longer or shorter than medical school, Tech school to become ASE certified, electronic school? Did you spend years and lots of $$$ to be able to get that FFL? Or did you just pony up a few hunded and decide to fuck everyone you could because you could?
Face it, the guy with the FFL charging unreasonable prices is just being a price gouging dick.
It's a retail store, not some highly trained specialist with years of training. FFL holders are just filling out a piece of paper with the directions printed right on it. And they wonder why there's no money in the business. Maybe if they charged for the service rendered instead of holding their breath until the ink runs red, they wouldn't have to fuck everyone to make a living. Wouldn't it make more sense to do 3 receivers for $20 than no receivers for$0?
Capitalism isn't for morons, ya know.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:02:21 PM EDT
having a FFL is a huge PITA, Its kinda like wwhen restaurants charge a corking fee for wine they dont want you to bring your own wine (lower) but if you do we will nail you on corking it.

Can you blame him for trying to make a buck? have you seen the paperwork nightmare being a FFL can entail?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:04:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC88-93:
I would think some of the transfer fee charges would be intentionally high in an attempt to get you to purchase local merchandise.

You did say one shop had Bushmaster lowers. He would obviously prefer you to purchase his stock on hand. If the transfer fee is enough to get you to think about his local merchandise than he needs to set his transfer fees that high



Yeah that is pretty much what he told me and I understand that even though it was a different, less expensive brand. The other three shops had no EBR stuff in stock so it wasn't cutting into their regular product line, they wouldn't have made a sale anyway. I would feel like a jackass going in somewhere and trying to undercut something they had right there in the case or on the rack by doing a transfer, it usually works out close to the same anyway.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:06:03 PM EDT
I pay a ffl $25.00 per receiver. The last time I transfered three at $75.00 and I don't feel I got ripped off. A matter of fact, I'm grateful. They come in, he calls, and I pick up when ever. I can pass by 7 days a week. He's easy going, no hassle, and quite nice.

I don't know what it is, but it seems no one wants to pay a FFL for anything, or at least very little. Ever have a repair man out to your house? Most won't get out their truck for under $100.00 + materials.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:06:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:11:36 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By Recon_Rabbit:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I feel your pain and agree with it , however
we used to be 1 form 1 fee
well guess what guys started abusing it
I had many transfers of 10 15 or 20 surplus rifles
so now 1 SN one fee
for good customers I will still do the 1 fee per form but there are many guys the only thing i ever see them for is transfers and they never buy anything else
The amount of work involved is the same if it is a barrett 82 or lorcin
we looked at total time spent per transfer it figures to about 30 minutes
go anyplace mechinic, doctor, chriopractor , TV repair man whatever and see what 1/2 labor costs

I agree with you but guys have abused it and you get what you have now



So how long was the school you had to attend to be able to fill out the 4473? Was it longer or shorter than medical school, Tech school to become ASE certified, electronic school? Did you spend years and lots of $$$ to be able to get that FFL? Or did you just pony up a few hunded and decide to fuck everyone you could because you could?
Face it, the guy with the FFL charging unreasonable prices is just being a price gouging dick.
It's a retail store, not some highly trained specialist with years of training. FFL holders are just filling out a piece of paper with the directions printed right on it. And they wonder why there's no money in the business. Maybe if they charged for the service rendered instead of holding their breath until the ink runs red, they wouldn't have to fuck everyone to make a living. Wouldn't it make more sense to do 3 receivers for $20 than no receivers for$0?
Capitalism isn't for morons, ya know.



pony up a millon or 2 and open a decent shop or just go to school to do one of the others things mentioned its cheaper

investment is investment



if you are doing it out of your basement then by all means charge $5


Im sure the bike repair guy that charges $50 a hour went to schol for a long time too

the 1/2 spent on a transfer is time Im kept from makeing a sale or getting a contract that we could make $100s or $1000s on



Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:11:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Recon_Rabbit:

Did you spend years and lots of $$$ to be able to get that FFL? Or did you just pony up a few hunded and decide to fuck everyone you could because you could?
Face it, the guy with the FFL charging unreasonable prices is just being a price gouging dick.
It's a retail store, not some highly trained specialist with years of training. FFL holders are just filling out a piece of paper with the directions printed right on it.





And they pay rent, insurance (usually very high rates), utilities, advertising (usually) & still try to make a profit after all that. Then someone comes along & asks to use their FFL license to save a few $$$$ & you somehow feel the FFL holder should fall all over himself to save the guy the extra $$$???? Hell, why not pay the customer to do his transfer?????????? Would that make you happy then??????

Not to mention, all one has to do is say "no thanks", and move along.

Kinda like in here in arfcom with people too GD cheap to pony up a mere $20 to keep the site going.


Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:18:37 PM EDT
I willingly pay the transfer fee, but I have never had multiple lowers shipped at the same time. If I had something like 3 coming in, and the shop does not sell stripped lowers, then why shouldnt' he give me some kind of break...like maybe $20 per instead of $25 per (he's still making more $ at one time). If I were a dealer, I'd do transfers all day long. There is no overhead in a transfer, I don't have to pay for the items, so all I have to do is hold it till I do the x-fer. Man...that's figging hard! Hell, make a name for yourself as the guy to go to for transfers, and you might just make out better in the long haul....maybe look at the things people are doing them for, and then stock items that match what is being transferred the most, and maybe you will also sell some of your product.

My main problem is this. The things I want transferred, the shop doesn't have, or doesn't have something just as good (CMT or STAG, or something like that....same quality/price). Or they want WAY too much for it (hell, if I can buy a stag lower online for $130, imagine what a dealer would pay). He could sell if for $150, make more profit, and be cheaper than the $130 lower with a $30 transfer. Instead, they are trying to make more profit on their stuff, by jacking the transfer fee because they know we cant go around them: That's price gouging.!
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:21:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:32:41 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
(hell, if I can buy a stag lower online for $130, imagine what a dealer would pay). He could sell if for $150, make more profit, and be cheaper than the $130 lower with a $30 transfer. Instead, they are trying to make more profit on their stuff, by jacking the transfer fee because they know we cant go around them: That's price gouging.!



anything I sell I can find for my wholesale price on about 100 websites
don't do stags have no idea what they cost just do the ABCs and RRA
only way to get cheaper is become factory direct at wholesaler level and then you have to meet certain sales levels that most of the time cannot be reached with 1 or even 4-5 retail stores


The only thing keeping the vast majority of gun shops open is used guns and ammo
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:25:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:26:42 PM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Not to mention, all one has to do is say "no thanks", and move along.





That is exactly what I did, capitalism is a two-way street . I'm just saying on the transfer the only extra thing that was required in this example was to take 30 seconds and write in two more serial numbers. One FFL copy went out, one little box is received, one 4473 is filled out, it just didn't make any sense that thirty seconds of extra writing called for the fee to triple. They have the right to charge what they want for whatever they do and I have the right to turn down such an offer, which I did. I just like bitching and whining sometimes anyway, it's fun
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:30:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
(hell, if I can buy a stag lower online for $130 $84 imagine what a dealer would pay).



Just wanted to correct that
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:31:19 PM EDT
My FFL does my transfers for free.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:39:17 PM EDT by Bubbatheredneck]


They can charge what they want and I can shop where I want.



The only thing that stikes me funny is when FFL holders talk about "their" license.

If it is "yours", why can the .gov yank it so quick?

It's not "yours", it is merely a visible sign of the privilege, not right, to do the .gov's paperwork for them.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:35:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Recon_Rabbit:

Did you spend years and lots of $$$ to be able to get that FFL? Or did you just pony up a few hunded and decide to fuck everyone you could because you could?
Face it, the guy with the FFL charging unreasonable prices is just being a price gouging dick.
It's a retail store, not some highly trained specialist with years of training. FFL holders are just filling out a piece of paper with the directions printed right on it.





And they pay rent, insurance (usually very high rates), utilities, advertising (usually) & still try to make a profit after all that. Then someone comes along & asks to use their FFL license to save a few $$$$ & you somehow feel the FFL holder should fall all over himself to save the guy the extra $$$???? Hell, why not pay the customer to do his transfer?????????? Would that make you happy then??????

Not to mention, all one has to do is say "no thanks", and move along.

Kinda like in here in arfcom with people too GD cheap to pony up a mere $20 to keep the site going.





That's only half the cost of doing business. Throw in taxes and payroll that twenty dollar transfer won't buy lunch.

Sometimes high transfer fee's work against you if your not careful. Duck Unlimited buys there guns from the store I work at for banquets.
They can buy these guns direct but need a transfer dealer to send them. Last year they did that instead of buying from us. They paid 20.00 per gun for us to do that.
I told them I would only transfer guns bought from us and no others. They said ok and bought eight Charles Dailys at 10% markup from us.
We made 18.00 per gun after shipping.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:36:03 PM EDT

My biggest pet peeve about Gun Dealers/FFL's




Mine;


Attit­udes and know it alls.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:41:51 PM EDT
I don't mind paying a dealer's fees if he was in the Army SEALS.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:49:46 PM EDT
If it is a stocking dealer, I expect to pay more. If it is someone who is just providing the FFL requirement and filling out paperwork, then hell yes, I expect cheap. But it is the FFL holder who can charge anything he/she wants. Just as much, buyers can refuse, shop elsewhere, and complain to all of their friends. It is all part of the free market and without any of these components, the market is not free.

From what I've seen in the past years, FFL who just perform paperwork are chasing out stocking dealers. In areas where there are few stocking dealers, FFL charge more.

Finally, a FFL who is just filling out the paperwork and makes the customer conclude the deal, front payment, and mails the FFL's ink-signed license is doing the vast majority of the work. To the point where I do not call these FFL's dealers. They are not.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:08:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 6:10:00 PM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By stator:
If it is a stocking dealer, I expect to pay more. If it is someone who is just providing the FFL requirement and filling out paperwork, then hell yes, I expect cheap. But it is the FFL holder who can charge anything he/she wants. Just as much, buyers can refuse, shop elsewhere, and complain to all of their friends. It is all part of the free market and without any of these components, the market is not free.

From what I've seen in the past years, FFL who just perform paperwork are chasing out stocking dealers. In areas where there are few stocking dealers, FFL charge more.

Finally, a FFL who is just filling out the paperwork and makes the customer conclude the deal, front payment, and mails the FFL's ink-signed license is doing the vast majority of the work. To the point where I do not call these FFL's dealers. They are not.



Those are the ones I like. The guy I am dealing with now charges $25 per copy of his FFL that goes out. He gives me the FFL copy, I address the envelope, include whatever payment/account info, and mail it off to the seller I have paid. When it shows up at his shop I go in and fill out the 4473, he calls it in, I leave with my stuff. This guy has a bunch of shotguns and hunting rifles in a wall rack, he doesn't make a living off of firearms, his main business is sporting goods, screen printing team uniforms, and bait. That is why he is easy and cheap to deal with I guess.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:15:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:21:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:24:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
No use in getting pissed about it. He is running a business and you can go elsewhere. I tried to get a few transfers for some stripped lowers, dealer wanted $30 each for 2.
I shopped around and found a guy that would do it for $20 for both.

Doesn't mean squat to me if the guy wants an arm and a leg. I can go elsewhere, it's my choice.



The thing that got me was that they would rather get $0 than the $45 I was willing to pay at the time. A side effect of that was when someone asked me where to get a transfer done I directed them to the guy who would work with me, not the ones who turned me down.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:24:08 PM EDT
My dealer charges $15 and doesn't give me any gruff about not buying from him. He'll ask me what I paid for the gun (just because he's curious) or one time he asked me what was special about an LMT w/ SOPMOD stock (he'd never seen one before). Due to his cheap transfer prices and friendly service, I also buy $20-$30 of ammo from him to make it a little more worth his time.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:54:09 PM EDT
One guy around here wants $50 per transfer ( I'm sure he'd want that for each lower )

Then some want to charge you sales tax on top even though they know damn well it's an out of state purchase
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:01:35 PM EDT
If a transfer is over $30 for one or $20 each for more than one, its cheaper for me to make the 6 hour round trip to go pick them up from the manufacture.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:04:30 PM EDT
As a small time FFL for the past 17 years all I can say to those who don't like my prices is to simply apply for a FFL! That way you can order whatever you want and not pay any transfer fees! Many guys will spend thousands on a rifle only to try to skate on an extra $100 or so in sales tax that they want you to eat. Ever get a chance to look at what "dealer" price is on most guns? I'll tell you that most of the time you get very little room to work with. Oh, and wait for your ATF audit when they take your whole day checking over every aspect of your business. Everyone thinks that the FFL's are ripping everyone off. Well I'll tell you that IF a person were to win the lottery one of the fastest ways to go broke would be to open a gun shop. I thank god I kept my day job and only deal in my spare time.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:08:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I feel your pain and agree with it , however
we used to be 1 form 1 fee
well guess what guys started abusing it
I had many transfers of 10 15 or 20 surplus rifles
so now 1 SN one fee
for good customers I will still do the 1 fee per form but there are many guys the only thing i ever see them for is transfers and they never buy anything else
The amount of work involved is the same if it is a barrett 82 or lorcin
we looked at total time spent per transfer it figures to about 30 minutes
go anyplace mechinic, doctor, chriopractor , TV repair man whatever and see what 1/2 labor costs

I agree with you but guys have abused it and you get what you have now



In that case I agree they should be paying more. They should just get a C&R and do it all themselves instead of trying to get a FFL 01 to do all they "dirty" work. Hell I enjoy getting firearms sent right to my door and entering them in my book
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:19:13 PM EDT
Never had a FFL, but I remember back in the day when everyone and his brother had one just so they could get guns at dealer cost. There were so many that they had to charge a small fee or else people would go to the next in house "dealer". I remember guys saying they would get me something for a $5 transfer.

Then the ATF cracked down on those dealers. So now there are less dealers, and increased costs, insurance rent etc. So they charge more. I don't have a problem with that.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:20:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Is that the 20" build in your avatar?



Yes



It has also been pretty hard on the Beaver lately





Link Posted: 2/14/2006 8:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:
My dealer charges $15 and doesn't give me any gruff about not buying from him. He'll ask me what I paid for the gun (just because he's curious) or one time he asked me what was special about an LMT w/ SOPMOD stock (he'd never seen one before). Due to his cheap transfer prices and friendly service, I also buy $20-$30 of ammo from him to make it a little more worth his time.



The FFL I use now is kinda the same way. When I told him I was gonna have three stripped Stag lowers transferred in he asked "What are those ?" I told him they are AR-15 lower receivers and he just said "That's cool, no problem". I also buy fishing stuff there so that helps in the "relationship"
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