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Posted: 2/13/2006 3:39:41 PM EDT
I have a good friend, (I'll call him, Doc) who on 9/11/2001 was working to set up equipment (computers, communications) for a conference/training class that was to be conducted by federal law enforcement on terrorism that had been scheduled for that day. This class was to take place on one of the piers on the west side of Midtown Manhattan. The class was going to simulate how local and federal emergency services would react to a terrorist attack on New York City. Before the class even began, an aircraft hit the first tower of the World Trade Center and what was to be a training class turned into the real thing. Doc was working with these officials to set up more equipment on the pier which eventually turned into one of the command posts/temporary morgues for the next six months to follow. As the attacks were taking place both in New York and D.C. Doc was working with these federal/local officials to get whatever equipment they needed on to the pier. He tells me that he was standing in the same room as these officials, as orders were being given to shoot down the aircraft that was headed for D.C. which turned out to be Flight 93 that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. At the time, Doc didn't think much about it because he spent most of the next 6 months at the pier 24/7 even sleeping in his van because of the time it would have taken him to commute the 20 miles to his home in New Jersey. The days following the attacks all the bridges and tunnels were under tight security, and trucks and vans were being stopped and checked for explosives, so it was easier just to stay in the City than having to commute back and forth to his home. A month or two after 9/11 he was finally able to gather his thoughts and information about what had transpired that day and when he heard the reports that the passangers on Flight 93 were responsible for keeping that aircraft from crashing into the White House, he realized that this was the aircraft that officials were talking about when orders were given to shoot down any aircraft inbound to the Capital that didn't respond to radio transmissions. When he told me that Flight 93 was shot out of the sky by USAF fighters (F-15's or F-16's) I thought he could be right. His story is very convincing. Does anyone have first-hand information to the contrary?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:40:43 PM EDT
No.

Next question.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:40:50 PM EDT
Insert tin-foil hat man picture here.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:41:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:42:44 PM EDT
I belive it is a possiblity. If i was in charge i would of shot it down if i had the chance. Who wouldn't?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:42:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 3:43:49 PM EDT by USGI_45]
If the Gov shot it down, in a moment of Confusion and Panic they decided to say they didnt. Now they cant change their story or else people will wonder what else they lied about. Im not saying one way ot the other, this is just a thought.


ETA gosh darnit, I passed 1911 posts without a special thread
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 3:43:48 PM EDT by david_g17]
i thought orders were given to shoot it down, but the fighters couldn't get there in time.

eta: if it was shot down, it would look good for us, bad for the BG's, why lie?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:43:09 PM EDT
By any chance, is "Doc" currently a reliable source living in South Florida?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:43:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:44:00 PM EDT
I think they sent fighters after flight 93, but they never got any where near it. Flight 93 crashed before it could be intercepted.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:44:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i thought orders were given to shoot it down, but the fighters couldn't get there in time.

eta: if it was shot down, it would look good for us, bad for the BG's, why lie?


IIRC there were orders to shoot it down, but the nearest armed fighters could not intercept in time.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:44:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
By any chance, is "Doc" currently a reliable source crackhead living in South Florida a van down by the river?

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:45:59 PM EDT
They sent fighters from a base in MI. And no i dont think it was shot down.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 3:47:29 PM EDT by PhilipPeake]
.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:47:42 PM EDT
fucking
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:47:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
If you are going to require military service ... and just military service, then the door is open to pople like Lurch. Add a requirement to have been in battle, even wounded in battle ... Lurch still qualifies.

Doesn't seem to do much for the quality of presidential candidates, does it?


Had to quote this for when he realizes he posted in the wrong thread.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:47:58 PM EDT
AGNTSA!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:48:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rdellafave58:
I have a good friend, (I'll call him, Doc) who on 9/11/2001 was working to set up equipment (computers, communications) for a conference/training class that was to be conducted by federal law enforcement on terrorism that had been scheduled for that day. This class was to take place on one of the piers on the west side of Midtown Manhattan. The class was going to simulate how local and federal emergency services would react to a terrorist attack on New York City. Before the class even began, an aircraft hit the first tower of the World Trade Center and what was to be a training class turned into the real thing. Doc was working with these officials to set up more equipment on the pier which eventually turned into one of the command posts/temporary morgues for the next six months to follow. As the attacks were taking place both in New York and D.C. Doc was working with these federal/local officials to get whatever equipment they needed on to the pier. He tells me that he was standing in the same room as these officials, as orders were being given to shoot down the aircraft that was headed for D.C. which turned out to be Flight 93 that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. At the time, Doc didn't think much about it because he spent most of the next 6 months at the pier 24/7 even sleeping in his van because of the time it would have taken him to commute the 20 miles to his home in New Jersey. The days following the attacks all the bridges and tunnels were under tight security, and trucks and vans were being stopped and checked for explosives, so it was easier just to stay in the City than having to commute back and forth to his home. A month or two after 9/11 he was finally able to gather his thoughts and information about what had transpired that day and when he heard the reports that the passangers on Flight 93 were responsible for keeping that aircraft from crashing into the White House, he realized that this was the aircraft that officials were talking about when orders were given to shoot down any aircraft inbound to the Capital that didn't respond to radio transmissions. When he told me that Flight 93 was shot out of the sky by USAF fighters (F-15's or F-16's) I thought he could be right. His story is very convincing. Does anyone have first-hand information to the contrary?



You lost any shred of credibility you may have had, right there.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:49:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By LoginName:
By any chance, is "Doc" currently a reliable source crackhead living in South Florida a van down by the river?




Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:51:13 PM EDT
That's what we've been told, but if you think about it the gov't sure tried to convince everyone that the passangers took the aircraft down to protect the Capitol
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:52:19 PM EDT
If it was it was with a 10/22 and a .38.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:53:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rdellafave58:
That's what we've been told, but if you think about it the gov't sure tried to convince everyone that the passangers took the aircraft down to protect the Capitol


You are either a troll or a moron, pick one.

Do you think the pilot, wingman, or ground crew could keep their mouths shut?

Please keep this crap where it belongs on the www.coasttocoast.com.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:53:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:54:11 PM EDT
NO. I believe in the "Grassy Knoll" theory more than I believe in this little pile of poo-poo.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:59:01 PM EDT
Good fourth post
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:59:31 PM EDT
What communications network was Doc monitoring when he heard that "orders were given"? How did he know that the orders given were directed at Flight 93? There were other flights airborne at that time. I am curious to hear since part of my job is managing a DoD emergency communications node. Several of the folks who work for me were on watch during 9-11 and have first hand knowledge of EXACTLY what communications were disseminated. IOW your buddy can't BS me. Like to hear your follow up.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:59:51 PM EDT
If he was really there for the definitive order being given, it wouldn't have taken him weeks or months to figure it out. I'm sure your friend believes it, but I imagine he overheard something and to make it more meaningful in his own experience, he turned it into, "Yea, I heard them give the order to shoot Flight 93 down."

For a while I was a moron, taking the middle ground that flight 93 was possibly shot down, and even that the Pentagon was actually a missle attack.

Then reality hit...
Pentagon = definitely a plane
Flight 93 = possibly shot down, but I seriously doubt it considering the testimony of the families and what went on. The crew helped to bring about it's early demise

TWA 800 = Shot down... and not by us.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:01:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 4:02:19 PM EDT by RikWriter]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:01:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:04:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:
What communications network was Doc monitoring when he heard that "orders were given"? How did he know that the orders given were directed at Flight 93? There were other flights airborne at that time. I am curious to hear since part of my job is managing a DoD emergency communications node. Several of the folks who work for me were on watch during 9-11 and have first hand knowledge of EXACTLY what communications were disseminated. IOW your buddy can't BS me. Like to hear your follow up.


Sir,
I've tried arguing technical details with these types, like the ATC system on the morning of 9/11, they'll go to extrordinary lengths to get around hard "facts" by claiming stuff like "it could have happened if" or "you don't know what type of radios they had at the command center" or "I wasn't there so I don't know the EXACT order" etc. They can't even understand basic logical flaws in their story; no way they'll understand the more nuanced stuff.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:07:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:08:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Anyone else want to beat up on the tin foiler or should I go ahead and lock this?



Oh, let's beat him up.

There have several very low post members immediately starting threads about this, AWB, etc.

WTF, over?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:09:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Anyone else want to beat up on the tin foiler or should I go ahead and lock this?



Bleh, it's all been debated before.....lock this sum bitch.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:13:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Anyone else want to beat up on the tin foiler or should I go ahead and lock this?



I would like to see some more, like specifically what "Doc" was listening to or watching when he learned all of this stuff. Of course, I don't have first hand knowledge myself (was in a squadron in 2001), but I have spoken to almost all of the watch team on duty that day.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:14:22 PM EDT
Did we then kill all the fighter pilots, ATC's, citizens on the ground, every staffer near someone in the "know", just to keep this a secret? If more than 1 in D.C. knows about it, it's not going to be a secret very long!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:15:13 PM EDT
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:16:20 PM EDT
why did i waste time opening this
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
why did i waste time opening this


for the same reason you bothered to post.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:19:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dagger:
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!




what? I havent heard this before
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:20:32 PM EDT



IBTL
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:21:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dagger:
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!



My conclusion is that you don't know what you are talking about.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:25:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dagger:
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!



My conclusion is that you don't know what you are talking about.



Right back at ya champ.


Originally Posted By USGI_45:

Originally Posted By Dagger:
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!




what? I havent heard this before




I wish I could find it on the internet somewhere, like video copy of it, but it wasn't that long ago, and maybe it just was a slip, but like I said, I always though we did shoot it down, and I also think that was the right choice to make. I'll do some searching and see if I can find it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:29:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 4:33:04 PM EDT by Dagger]
So I did some quick looking, no video yet, but take these to mean whatever you want:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/world/canada_missle_reject_perplexes_us.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42130

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/24/nfcnn.01.html
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
www.refugepics.com/members/Pennswoods/aw_jeez.gif



I'll see your AGNTSA and raise you a...

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:34:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:34:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 4:36:39 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By USGI_45:
If the Gov shot it down, in a moment of Confusion and Panic they decided to say they didnt. Now they cant change their story or else people will wonder what else they lied about. Im not saying one way ot the other, this is just a thought.


ETA gosh darnit, I passed 1911 posts without a special thread



Agreed.
I'm not saying they did or they didn't, but I don't think it would have been the wrong decision to shoot it down.
It would be the wrong decision to lie about it.

ETA: This guy is a , and the "doc" mentioned sure as shit ain't me!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:44:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dagger:
.



I guess you're just going to ignore the gentleman who has already posted with his first-hand knowledge of what occurred, huh?



No, I'm not going to ignore it, I just don't buy into everything I see and/or hear. That applies to the links I posted as well. It's all just food for thought in my opinion. With that being said, I still think we shot down that jet.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:49:48 PM EDT
There was an 8 Mile debris field--you be the judge!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:50:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dagger:
I've thought from day one that we shot it down. Not too long ago in a press conference, Rumsfeld even "slipped" and refered to it as the "flight we shot down"

So draw your own conclusions!



The conclusion I've drawn is that you're a troll.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:51:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dagger:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Dagger:
.



I guess you're just going to ignore the gentleman who has already posted with his first-hand knowledge of what occurred, huh?



No, I'm not going to ignore it, I just don't buy into everything I see and/or hear. That applies to the links I posted as well. It's all just food for thought in my opinion. With that being said, I still think we shot down that jet.



Dude, if that's your idea of food for thought, your brain has gone and died of malnutrition.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:54:33 PM EDT
Flight 93 was shot down exactly 87 times.
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