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Posted: 2/11/2006 5:11:42 PM EDT
As some people know I am presently employed as a translator in a large plant which manufactures semiconductors and related products.

Many chemicals are used in the manufacturing process.
To maintain quality, new cans of chemicals are opened every 8 to 16 hours and whatever chemicals which are left from the previous can are discarded.
About 3 weeks ago I noticed that the person who is supposed to take the cans to the designated storage area is occasionally hiding them in his car, then probably taking them home.

As far as I can figure, the chemical that he is taking home is Cerium Ammonium Nitrate.

I am slightly worried about what he is planing to do with the chemicals.
I know that Ammonium Nitrate can be used as an explosive, can Cerium Ammonium Nitrate be used as an explosive, too?
Is there any rational reason for taking it home?

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 5:21:58 PM EDT by JBowles]
Yeah.

My Chemistry is alittle rusty

but both act as Oxydizers.

EDIT

Cerium Ammonium Nitrate is used as a Oxydizer, it could easyly be used in an explosize
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:20:27 PM EDT
no advice, good luck to ya.

Someone here will be along to help.


TXL
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:23:57 PM EDT
Call someone.

I dont know what this means but I doubt hes doing it in his garage
"It is often used by organometallic chemists to detach a metal ion from an organic compound in a procedure called decomplexation. It is also used in organic synthesis to oxidise hydroquinones to quinones."

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:28:23 PM EDT
Translator in what language?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:43:32 PM EDT
Liquid AN. It is an oxidizer, but I *don't* think it can be readily be made into ANFO. It will not be sensitized enough by AL or F/O to be shock sensitive. Let me do a little reasearch.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:50:10 PM EDT
Just making sure, your positive it's cerium ammonium nitrate instead of sulfate?

either way this needs to be reported.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:53:19 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies.

I was reluctant to tell them before, because what he is stealing would have been discarded anyway.
I'm not decided yet but I think that I might notify the powers that be about this.

I can translate between Korean, Japanese, English, and can also do Chinese if the subject is not too technical.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:59:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:
Just making sure, your positive it's cerium ammonium nitrate instead of sulfate?

either way this needs to be reported.



I am pretty sure, but I will double check before doing anything.
The chemical leaves orange/dark red stains, if that helps.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:02:25 PM EDT
does it look like this

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:04:18 PM EDT
Just talk to him, see if he is psycho, and go from there

He may just be making tannerite like we all do, or may be a aspiring chemist.

No need to get anyone involved and ruin this guys job and possibly life right now, over taking some discarded chems.

You do however, need to access this threat for yourself and have some common sense about it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
does it look like this

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Ceric_ammonium_nitrate.jpg/200px-Ceric_ammonium_nitrate.jpg



That could be it, but I'm not sure.
I have to go now, I will be back in about 6 hours.
I will probably be able to check what the chemical is tomorrow, if it is cerium ammonium nitrate or sulfate, I will notify the bosses.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:12:53 PM EDT
Ok it is the Nitrate then. We use it here to etch chrome (CR41) chromium etchant. Again I believe it is a very stable oxidizer. Our MSDS shows though not to mix with other oxidizers, so I don't believe an ANFO use possible.

Now if it exposed to liquid specifically water he might just discover a burning sensation

It still needs to be disposed of properly.

Most semiconductor grade chemicals have a specific life that is useful in etching or cleaning. After some time exposed to air or time the results are varying for use in removing a very specific ammount of resist/metal/silicon.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:22:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ATNT:
Thanks for all the replies.

I was reluctant to tell them before, because what he is stealing would have been discarded anyway.
I'm not decided yet but I think that I might notify the powers that be about this.



There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Cerium Ammonium Nitrate is used as an oxidizer because it can selectively oxidize certain organic chemicals without destroying them, as opposed to, say, bleach (sodium hypochlorite solution).

You could isolate the Ammonium Nitrate by mixing a solution of Cerium Ammonium Nitrate with Sodium Hydroxide solution whereby the Cerium would precipitate as the hydroxide/oxide, filter it off, and then fractionally crystallize the Ammonium Nitrate from the Sodium Nitrate solution. Then you would need to carefully dry the Ammonium Nitrate.

Or, you can forgo the hours of work and buy Ammonium Nitrate all day long on the internet, legally, at chemical supply houses.

Cerium Ammonium Nitrate cannot be used as an explosive no matter how hard you try, and regardless what you mix with it.

I don't know of any illicit drug reactions that could use Cerum Ammonium Nitrate, except for maybe making khat, but even that would be a stretch.

You are certainly free to tell whoever, whatever, but if the police get drawn into this then get ready to answer questions in a small room to some very angry people.

If he isn't stealing, don't invite The Man into your life.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:33:30 PM EDT
This is happening in Japan or Okinawa, I don't remember which offhand. I would speculate that they have pretty strict regulations on how chemicals are disposed of. Epsecially ultra pure high concentration chemicals. But that is just a guess.

I would also suspect that from the storage container the chemical supplier to this plant is reselling this material to someone else. Again just a guess, baised on personal experiance.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:25:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:27:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 4:31:39 AM EDT by ATNT]
Thanks for all the replies and advice

The general consensus seems to be that Cerium Ammonium Nitrate can't be used as explosives then.
Probably just overreacted because of the Ammonium Nitrate bit.
I thought of asking the techs here, but if it was used for something illegal, I don’t want people remembering me as the guy who was asking about it.

I will confirm to see if I have got the name of the chemical right, if I have, I will do nothing. I wouldn’t want to get a person who is just taking home stuff that would be discarded anyway in trouble.
If the name was wrong (pretty sure that it isn't though) I’ll ask here again.

If I get the chance, I will ask the guy why he is taking it.

I will update as soon as possible.


ETA This is taking place in Japan.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:46:25 PM EDT
* Update *

I was able to confirm that what he was taking was Cerium Ammonium Nitrate so I won’t be telling anyone.

Didn’t get a chance to talk to him, but I might if I can get him alone..

Thanks for all the help and advice
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:21:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ATNT:
* Update *

I was able to confirm that what he was taking was Cerium Ammonium Nitrate so I won’t be telling anyone.

Didn’t get a chance to talk to him, but I might if I can get him alone..

Thanks for all the help and advice



Im intersted to see what hes doing with it, it seems its preety muched used just in Industry.
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