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Posted: 2/11/2006 11:36:13 AM EDT
link to story



South Africa : News

Mookgopong - Attackers apparently slashed an elderly famer's Achilles tendons, mutilated him and left him 2km from his farmhouse in the bushes to keep him from interfering with their murder rampage.

Then, they murdered his wife.

"They killed my parents like animals..." said a heartbroken Callie Botha on Thursday after his parents had been found murdered on this Limpopo farm.

Farmers in the Naboomspruit area were shocked and angered by the cruelty with which 72-year-old Charles Botha was killed.

The farmer's body was found on Wednesday about two kilometres from Kaalvallei farm between Mookgopong and Vaalwater. It had been covered with branches.

Superintendent Malesela Ledwaba of Waterberg police said that, apart from Botha's Achilles tendons being slashed, he apparently also had been stabbed several times with a sharp object, as there were wounds to his legs, back and head.

Face crushed with a brick

"Police are looking for a farm worker who has disappeared since the murder. They suspected there might have been more than one attacker.

The bloody body of Botha's wife, Joey, 71, was found in the main bedroom of the farmhouse.

The couple's son, Deon, found his mother's body under a duvet. Her face apparently had been crushed with a brick.

Johan Botha, one of the couple's four sons, said his mom had been "very badly hurt".

"It seemed as if she had tried to stop the attacker with a pillow, but in vain."

Nothing was taken from the house. A firearm on Botha's bedside table was untouched, as was his bakkie.

A shocked Marie Helm, area manager for Transvaal Agricultural Union, SA-North, said on Thursday afternoon: "The murder is frightening.

"We don't know what else to do to get the government to listen to us and stop the farm murders.

"There's no way these murders are related to burglary or theft," she said.

Deon and Callie Botha saw their parents for the last time alive on Tuesday. They tried to phone them on Wednesday, but got no answer at the farmhouse.

Deon and a neighbour, Koos Fouché, went to the house on Wednesday afternoon.

The house was locked. The couple's cars were parked outside and the electricity had been cut.

Deon broke a window to get inside, and found his mother's bloody body.

'Totally apathetic attitude'

At that stage, his father was still missing, and a large-scale search was launched by the police, members of the TAU SA-N and trackers. They later found Charles Botha's body hidden by bushes.

Dries Joubert, chairperson of TAU SA-N, criticised the government on Thursday for not doing something to stop farm murders.

"The totally apathetic attitude of the president, minister of land affairs and minister of safety (and security) should indicate that the murder of white commercial farmers doesn't have much effect on the government," he said.

He said the senseless and cruel manner in which this murder had been committed should shock the whole of South Africa into action.



edited from its original form to protect the sensibilities of those who cannot call it like it is.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:39:02 AM EDT
Lot of those people need to bail. It's gonna end up like Rhodie there, but without the whole "we're taking your farms, get out".
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:39:42 AM EDT
I think the original thread commentary was spot on.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:40:36 AM EDT
Since I don't have anything nice to say I won't say anything at all.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:41:36 AM EDT
I am sorry I missed the original commentary.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:42:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:
I think the original thread commentary was spot on.




+1

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:44:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:
I think the original thread commentary was spot on.



What was is it?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:44:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
I am sorry I missed the original commentary.



Same here.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:47:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:

Originally Posted By go3:
I think the original thread commentary was spot on.



What was is it?

Oh, I think you can guess. Yes it was also right on!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:48:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:53:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?


How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?



difference being, this is a hate crime, those are(mostly) not.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:06:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:32:29 PM EDT
Kulchure!................African or otherwise!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:48:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?


How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?




The interesting thing is, if this crime would've taken place here, and white men were the perps, and blacks the victims, it would have been all you would hear about for the next three weeks, there'd be massive nationwide forced introspection on race relations, congress would convene a hearing and inquiry. The news would be having a field day telling about how racist America is, blacks would be rioting, etc, etc.

If it happened here and it was black perps and white victims, as in this case, it would only make local news, and no one would care.

Welcome to America, home of the Entitled....
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:51:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
difference being, this is a hate crime, those are(mostly) not.


I'm sure the victims think it's so much worse to be killed because of hate than for any other reason.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:10:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?


How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?





Yes, this type of thing should not be reported unless it's in your own backyard.
I mean who cares what happens a state over or across the globe.
Think of their feelings......we wouldn't want to hurt their feelings.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:25:59 AM EDT
I am not sure why any white person would stay in Africa. Been open season for some time now. Of course, I never understood why Jews stayed in Germany and affiliated nations during the 30's either.

Perhaps we should be allowing more of their skilled and educated into the US rather than the illiterate, illegal Mexican swarm currently invading us. No, wait a minute, that would make sense.

And the tail wags the dog.....
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:36:26 AM EDT
Some of you people are missing a big point here.

If a white guy kills a black guy ,it's instantly thought
that there's a high probability that it's a hate crime.

If a black guy kills a white guy ,it's not investigated as
a hate crime.
Just a regular crime .The word "hate" is usually not involved,
and it's usually not investigated as being racially motivated.

Get a freaken clue !

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:36:45 AM EDT
Let Africa Sink
Kim du Toit
May 26, 2002
1:40 PM

When it comes to any analysis of the problems facing Africa, Western society, and particularly people from the United States, encounter a logical disconnect that makes clear analysis impossible. That disconnect is the way life is regarded in the West (it’s precious, must be protected at all costs etc.), compared to the way life, and death, are regarded in Africa. Let me try to quantify this statement.

In Africa, life is cheap. There are so many ways to die in Africa that death is far more commonplace than in the West. You can die from so many things--snakebite, insect bite, wild animal attack, disease, starvation, food poisoning… the list goes on and on. At one time, crocodiles accounted for more deaths in sub-Saharan Africa than gunfire, for example. Now add the usual human tragedy (murder, assault, warfare and the rest), and you can begin to understand why the life expectancy for an African is low--in fact, horrifyingly low, if you remove White Africans from the statistics (they tend to be more urbanized, and more Western in behavior and outlook). Finally, if you add the horrifying spread of AIDS into the equation, anyone born in sub-Saharan Africa this century will be lucky to reach age forty.

I lived in Africa for over thirty years. Growing up there, I was infused with several African traits--traits which are not common in Western civilization. The almost-casual attitude towards death was one. (Another is a morbid fear of snakes.)

So because of my African background, I am seldom moved at the sight of death, unless it’s accidental, or it affects someone close to me. (Death which strikes at strangers, of course, is mostly ignored.) Of my circle of about eighteen or so friends with whom I grew up, and whom I would consider "close", only about ten survive today--and not one of the survivors is over the age of fifty. Two friends died from stepping on landmines while on Army duty in Namibia. Three died in horrific car accidents (and lest one thinks that this is not confined to Africa, one was caused by a kudu flying through a windshield and impaling the guy through the chest with its hoof--not your everyday traffic accident in, say, Florida). One was bitten by a snake, and died from heart failure. Another also died of heart failure, but he was a hopeless drunkard. Two were shot by muggers. The last went out on his surfboard one day and was never seen again (did I mention that sharks are plentiful off the African coasts and in the major rivers?). My situation is not uncommon in South Africa--and north of the Limpopo River (the border with Zimbabwe), I suspect that others would show worse statistics.

The death toll wasn’t just confined to my friends. When I was still living in Johannesburg, the newspaper carried daily stories of people mauled by lions, or attacked by rival tribesmen, or dying from some unspeakable disease (and this was pre-AIDS Africa too) and in general, succumbing to some of Africa’s many answers to the population explosion. Add to that the normal death toll from rampant crime, illness, poverty, flood, famine, traffic, and the police, and you’ll begin to get the idea.

My favorite African story actually happened after I left the country. An American executive took a job over there, and on his very first day, the newspaper headlines read: "Three Headless Bodies Found".
The next day: "Three Heads Found".
The third day: "Heads Don’t Match Bodies".

You can’t make this stuff up.

As a result of all this, death is treated more casually by Africans than by Westerners. I, and I suspect most Africans, am completely inured to reports of African suffering, for whatever cause. Drought causes crops to fail, thousands face starvation? Yup, that happened many times while I was growing up. Inter-tribal rivalry and warfare causes wholesale slaughter? Yep, been happening there for millennia, long before Whitey got there. Governments becoming rich and corrupt while their populations starved? Not more than nine or ten of those. In my lifetime, the following tragedies have occurred, causing untold millions of deaths: famine in Biafra, genocide in Rwanda, civil war in Angola, floods in South Africa, famine in Somalia, civil war in Sudan, famine in Ethiopia, floods in Mozambique, wholesale slaughter in Uganda, and tribal warfare in every single country. There are others, but you get the point.

Yes, all this was also true in Europe--maybe a thousand years ago. But not any more. And Europe doesn’t teem with crocodiles, ultra-venomous snakes and so on.

The Dutch controlled the floods. All of Europe controls famine--it’s non-existent now. Apart from a couple of examples of massive, state-sponsored slaughter (Nazi Germany, Communist Russia), Europe since 1700 doesn’t even begin to compare to Africa today. Casual slaughter is another thing altogether--rare in Europe, common in Africa.

More to the point, the West has evolved into a society with a stable system of government, which follows the rule of law, and has respect for the rights and life of the individual--none of which is true in Africa.

Among old Africa hands, we have a saying, usually accompanied by a shrug: "Africa wins again." This is usually said after an incident such as:

a beloved missionary is butchered by his congregation, for no apparent reason
a tribal chief prefers to let his tribe starve to death rather than accepting food from the Red Cross (would mean he wasn’t all-powerful, you see)

an entire nation starves to death, while its ruler accumulates wealth in foreign banks
a new government comes into power, promising democracy, free elections etc., provided that the freedom doesn’t extend to the other tribe

the other tribe comes to power in a bloody coup, then promptly sets about slaughtering the first tribe
etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam, ad infinitum.

The prognosis is bleak, because none of this mayhem shows any sign of ending. The conclusions are equally bleak, because, quite frankly, there is no answer to Africa’s problems, no solution that hasn’t been tried before, and failed.

Just go to the CIA World Fact Book, pick any of the African countries (Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi etc.), and compare the statistics to any Western country (eg. Portugal, Italy, Spain, Ireland). The disparities are appalling--and it’s going to get worse, not better. It has certainly got worse since 1960, when most African countries achieved independence. We, and by this I mean the West, have tried many ways to help Africa. All such attempts have failed.

Charity is no answer. Money simply gets appropriated by the first, or second, or third person to touch it (17 countries saw a decline in real per capita GNP between 1970 and 1999, despite receiving well over $100 billion in World Bank assistance).

Food isn’t distributed. This happens either because there is no transportation infrastructure (bad), or the local leader deliberately withholds the supplies to starve people into submission (worse).

Materiel is broken, stolen or sold off for a fraction of its worth. The result of decades of "foreign aid" has resulted in a continental infrastructure which, if one excludes South Africa, couldn’t support Pittsburgh.

Add to this, as I mentioned above, the endless cycle of Nature’s little bag of tricks--persistent drought followed by violent flooding, a plethora of animals, reptiles and insects so dangerous that life is already cheap before Man starts playing his little reindeer games with his fellow Man--and what you are left with is: catastrophe.

The inescapable conclusion is simply one of resignation. This goes against the grain of our humanity--we are accustomed to ridding the world of this or that problem (smallpox, polio, whatever), and accepting failure is anathema to us. But, to give a classic African scenario, a polio vaccine won’t work if the kids are prevented from getting the vaccine by a venal overlord, or a frightened chieftain, or a lack of roads, or by criminals who steal the vaccine and sell it to someone else. If a cure for AIDS was found tomorrow, and offered to every African nation free of charge, the growth of the disease would scarcely be checked, let alone reversed. Basically, you’d have to try to inoculate as many two-year old children as possible, and write off the two older generations.

So that is the only one response, and it’s a brutal one: accept that we are powerless to change Africa, and leave them to sink or swim, by themselves.

It sounds dreadful to say it, but if the entire African continent dissolves into a seething maelstrom of disease, famine and brutality, that’s just too damn bad. We have better things to do--sometimes, you just have to say, "Can’t do anything about it.

The viciousness, the cruelty, the corruption, the duplicity, the savagery, and the incompetence is endemic to the entire continent, and is so much of an anathema to any right-thinking person that the civilized imagination simply stalls when faced with its ubiquity, and with the enormity of trying to fix it. The Western media shouldn’t even bother reporting on it. All that does is arouse our feelings of horror, and the instinctive need to do something, anything--but everything has been tried before, and failed. Everything, of course, except self-reliance.

All we should do is make sure that none of Africa gets transplanted over to the U.S., because the danger to our society is dire if it does. I note that several U.S. churches are attempting to bring groups of African refugees over to the United States, European churches the same for Europe. Mistake. Mark my words, this misplaced charity will turn around and bite us, big time.

Even worse would be to think that the simplicity of Africa holds some kind of answers for Western society: remember Mrs. Clinton’s little book, "It Takes A Village"? Trust me on this: there is not one thing that Africa can give the West which hasn’t been tried before and failed, not one thing that isn’t a step backwards, and not one thing which is worse than, or that contradicts, what we have already.

So here’s my (tongue-in-cheek) solution for the African fiasco: a high wall around the whole continent, all the guns and bombs in the world for everyone inside, and at the end, the last one alive should do us all a favor and kill himself.

Inevitably, some Kissingerian realpolitiker is going to argue in favor of intervention, because in the vacuum of Western aid, perhaps the Communist Chinese would step in and increase their influence in the area. There are two reasons why this isn’t going to happen.

Firstly, the PRC doesn’t have that kind of money to throw around; and secondly, the result of any communist assistance will be precisely the same as if it were Western assistance. For the record, Mozambique and Angola are both communist countries--and both are economic disaster areas. The prognosis for both countries is disastrous--and would be the same for any other African country.

The West can’t help Africa. Nor should we. The record speaks for itself.



Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cobrasks:
Some of you people are missing a big point here.

If a white guy kills a black guy ,it's instantly thought
that there's a high probability that it's a hate crime.

If a black guy kills a white guy ,it's not investigated as
a hate crime.
Just a regular crime .The word "hate" is usually not involved,
and it's usually not investigated as being racially motivated.

Get a freaken clue !




I don't think that is lost on anyone bud.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:52:47 AM EDT
i am offended at this threads attempt to not offend me.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:01:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:01:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
i am offended at this threads attempt to not offend me.






No shit!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:17:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?


How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?



And this is no difference, regardless of race/place, it's a wanton act commited by (insert PC dicriptive here).
Is it OK if I call Manson an animal?
Rodriguez?
Speck?
Dahlmer?So what's the diff?


So you're saying that "hate crimes" should be treated differently than other murders?


Should they?
NO
Are they?
YES
Don't kid yourself, any hate crime is treated with much more interest than a "normal" crime.
Gay/minority murders, church and abortion clinic bombings/arsons, tell me it ain't so.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:24:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:27:22 AM EDT

PC comment to me, maybe that's a regional thing....


PC and Arizona?
Now THAT'S sarcasm.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:30:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 8:32:11 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I am not sure why any white person would stay in Africa. Been open season for some time now. Of course, I never understood why Jews stayed in Germany and affiliated nations during the 30's either.




My parents moved to Africa because my dad's company asked him to. Rather, they sent him there - but I suppose he could have refused, but probably at the risk of being fired.

But I guess you are talking about people that have lived there for generations.

I think when it is your HOME, it's very hard to leave. I mean, how bad would the U.S. have to become before you would move - or would you always stay, and try to fight for what is yours? (I'm not trying to draw any parallel here - I don't the U.S. will ever become a mess that anyone would want to leave - jsut trying to point out that when it is your home, it must be extremely hard to just pick up and leave because it has become too dangeous, or you no longer feel welcome).



Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:46:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I am not sure why any white person would stay in Africa. Been open season for some time now. Of course, I never understood why Jews stayed in Germany and affiliated nations during the 30's either.




My parents moved to Africa because my dad's company asked him to. Rather, they sent him there - but I suppose he could have refused, but probably at the risk of being fired.

But I guess you are talking about people that have lived there for generations.

I think when it is your HOME, it's very hard to leave. I mean, how bad would the U.S. have to become before you would move - or would you always stay, and try to fight for what is yours? (I'm not trying to draw any parallel here - I don't the U.S. will ever become a mess that anyone would want to leave - jsut trying to point out that when it is your home, it must be extremely hard to just pick up and leave because it has become too dangeous, or you no longer feel welcome).






I understand what they are thinking, I ugess, but it makes no sense.
If the US singled out my specific demographic group for destruction I might leave with my family.
It is more likely that I would stay I suppose but if I did so I would fight, not just be turned into human livestock, herded to my destruction. In other words, I would take as many with me as I could before I met my demise. But I am an ornery SOB, what can I say.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:58:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?

How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?


So, what you're saying is that South Africa is no different than Arizona, eh?

Hmmmm.

Must be a Buddhist-thing, or something.

Yeah, just keep me out of Africa.

If you ever find me about to board a commercial jetliner for Johannesberg, 'two to the chest, one to the head', and I will thank you for it in my next incarnation.



Yay, Buddha!

Eric The(ContemplatingHisNavelAtTheMoment)Hun
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:06:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Paul:
Got any detailed stories on the 90 murders, 241 forceable rapes, or 4900 aggravated assualts in Phoenix from last year?

How about the 7 murders in Glendale?

Or the 13 in Mesa?

The 4 in Scottsdale, 5 in Tempe, or the 28 in Tucson?


So, what you're saying is that South Africa is no different than Arizona, eh?

Hmmmm.

Must be a Buddhist-thing, or something.

Yeah, just keep me out of Africa.

If you ever find me about to board a commercial jetliner for Johannesberg, 'two to the chest, one to the head', and I will thank you for it in my next incarnation.



Yay, Buddha!

Eric The(ContemplatingHisNavelAtTheMoment)Hun



Although, back in the day, the day of Krugerands and Apartheid, it would have been a wonderful trip...of course that has all changed now, as the "natives" run wild....
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:18:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
I suppose where you live you murder over love? I can't imagine anything more hateful than murder.

Got any details on the 7649 American hate crimes documented by the FBI in 2004? An examination of the data indicates that for most - 53.8 percent - were victims of hate crimes that were racially motivated.

Of the 4042 race crimes 2731 were classified as anti-black and just 829 as anti-white.



That's the problem with the stats. They don't tell you the real story. Anti-white hate crimes are a lot higher than that. Look into the stastitics at interracial rape. Majority of the victims are white. The primary difference between stastitics gathering is that when a white attacks a black, it's assumed to be a hate crime, and when a black attacks a white, it's assumed to not be a hate crime unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ex: Wichita, Kansas slayings. Not considered a hate crime.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:20:16 AM EDT
Having worked with a few people from South Africa, it's very difficult for most to leave. The government has made it very difficult, if not impossible, for people to leave and take their assets with them. So, you're a 70 year old farmer or pensioner...you sell your land, but can't take the money with you. What are you going to do?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:21:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Drakich:

Originally Posted By Paul:
I suppose where you live you murder over love? I can't imagine anything more hateful than murder.

Got any details on the 7649 American hate crimes documented by the FBI in 2004? An examination of the data indicates that for most - 53.8 percent - were victims of hate crimes that were racially motivated.

Of the 4042 race crimes 2731 were classified as anti-black and just 829 as anti-white.



That's the problem with the stats. They don't tell you the real story. Anti-white hate crimes are a lot higher than that. Look into the stastitics at interracial rape. Majority of the victims are white. The primary difference between stastitics gathering is that when a white attacks a black, it's assumed to be a hate crime, and when a black attacks a white, it's assumed to not be a hate crime unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ex: Wichita, Kansas slayings. Not considered a hate crime.



Exactly

And we are lame enough to accept this drivel from the Left.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:22:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:22:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Drakich:
Having worked with a few people from South Africa, it's very difficult for most to leave. The government has made it very difficult, if not impossible, for people to leave and take their assets with them. So, you're a 70 year old farmer or pensioner...you sell your land, but can't take the money with you. What are you going to do?



Leave with your life. And those of your family.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:25:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
Look into the stastitics at interracial rape. Majority of the victims are white. The primary difference between stastitics gathering is that when a white attacks a black, it's assumed to be a hate crime, and when a black attacks a white, it's assumed to not be a hate crime unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ex: Wichita, Kansas slayings. Not considered a hate crime.



What statistics are those and what proof do you have that white victims are assumed to be the victims of a hate crime while victims of other races are assumed not to be?



Well, I can sure tell you about some anecdotal evidence. Watch the news....

Here in Buffalo, we had an incident where some white kids beat up some black kids, it was charged as (or at least investigated as) a hate crime. The black kids friends then jumped some white kids. No hate crime....go figure.

Any time I see anyhting on the news with white and black crime, the term hate crime always comes up. Other way around...business as usual.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:28:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
Look into the stastitics at interracial rape. Majority of the victims are white. The primary difference between stastitics gathering is that when a white attacks a black, it's assumed to be a hate crime, and when a black attacks a white, it's assumed to not be a hate crime unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ex: Wichita, Kansas slayings. Not considered a hate crime.



What statistics are those and what proof do you have that white victims are assumed to be the victims of a hate crime while victims of other races are assumed not to be?



How can you obtain stats on something where none are taken?
I did a search a while back on stats for certain crimes and couldn't find shit.

However, it is extremely common in my experience in following news stories that he is correct. MO. Look at the Vang murders here in WI. Clearly racially motivated yet where was the hate crime charge.

Wait, do I hear crickets.....

All BS anyhow. The whole hate crime thing. Nothing but left wing thought crime bullshit and that's exactly what is was meant to be. Same as saying something nonPC anywhere. Expect to get crucified by the media, lose your job, etc. But who gets to set the definition? Why the Left, of course. And all the while people like Nagin, Sharpton, etc keep spewing their racist BS.

I cannot imagine that you don't see this Aimless. You seem like a smart guy.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:28:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:30:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:37:23 AM EDT
Killing farmers? Talk about cutting your own throat!

And then the U.S./U.N. will send food aid to them. International Welfare
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:42:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 9:53:45 AM EDT by Drakich]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Drakich:
Look into the stastitics at interracial rape. Majority of the victims are white. The primary difference between stastitics gathering is that when a white attacks a black, it's assumed to be a hate crime, and when a black attacks a white, it's assumed to not be a hate crime unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Ex: Wichita, Kansas slayings. Not considered a hate crime.



What statistics are those and what proof do you have that white victims are assumed to be the victims of a hate crime while victims of other races are assumed not to be?



Obviously, it's hard to "prove" anything when "racial motive" isn't captured or assumed not be present in the vast majority of cases.

But, given the statistics of interracial crime, it's pretty obvious that the prosecution of racially motivated "hate crimes" is skewed with respect actual number of interracial crimes committed.

From http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=3691:


Since 1972, the U.S. Department of Justice has conducted a National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) to determine the frequency of certain crimes. One category is interracial crimes. Its most recent publication (1997), "Criminal Victimization in the U.S.," reports on data collected in 1994. In that year, there were about 1,700,000 interracial crimes, of which 1,276,030 involved whites and blacks. In 90 percent of the cases, a white was the victim and a black was the perpetrator, while in 10 percent of the cases it was the reverse.

Another finding of the NCVS report is that of the 2,025,464 violent crimes committed by blacks in 1994, 1,140,670 were against whites - that's slightly over 56 percent. Whites committed 5,114,692 violent crimes; 135,360, or 2.6 percent were against blacks.



Edited to remove redundant statements.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:45:24 AM EDT
The victim is like a white person living in the midst of Watts in the 70s or South Central in the 80's -- it's too bad something happened, but the writing was on the wall.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 10:15:03 AM EDT by Da_Bunny]
There was a murder in Seattle, during the Fat Tuesday riots where a white man was killed when he tried to pull a white woman out of a crowd of blacks who were beating and stripping her. When they caught the black man who beat the white man to death with a fire extinguisher, he said he was at war with white people and he killed the man because he was white.

It couldn't have possibly been more overtly racist. He was never charged with a hate crime and did less than two years for the killing.

Whenever I see these stories, I am reminded of what it is like, here in my own State. Doesn't seem much better.

I've heard enough about "Tolerance".
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:20:56 AM EDT
I don't suppose any crime is a love crime...it is all hate...the difference between Africa and here is that, in Africa whole villages are tortured, mutilated and dessimated in the attempt to destroy any hope for democracy ...thank the Moslems for it...and the useless UN...
Here is America you have the individual lunatics committing crime only because our system refuses to punish and deter them...vary rarely are the crimes as horrific, brutal or ruthless as in
Africa... Our nation has never lost 200,000 -300,000 because of unchecked terroritsts...
I hope we wake up before that type of genocide occurs in America...
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:24:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
There was a murder in Seattle, during the Fat Tuesday riots where a white man was killed when he tried to pull a white woman out of a crowd of blacks who were beating and stripping her. When they caught the black man who beat the white man to death with a fire extinguisher, he said he was at war with white people and he killed the man because he was white.

It couldn't have possibly been more overtly racist. He was never charged with a hate crime and did less than two years for the killing.

Whenever I see these stories, I am reminded of what it is like, here in my own State. Doesn't seem much better.

I've heard enough about "Tolerance".


What did we really expect?

I mean really ?

Eric The(BraveNewWorld,OrSimplyTheJungle?)Hun
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:26:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
He made the reference to statistics, not this little penguin.



And I posted a reference for them...your response...<crickets>
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 10:42:43 AM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
There was a murder in Seattle, during the Fat Tuesday riots where a white man was killed when he tried to pull a white woman out of a crowd of blacks who were beating and stripping her. When they caught the black man who beat the white man to death with a fire extinguisher, he said he was at war with white people and he killed the man because he was white.

It couldn't have possibly been more overtly racist. He was never charged with a hate crime and did less than two years for the killing.

Whenever I see these stories, I am reminded of what it is like, here in my own State. Doesn't seem much better.

I've heard enough about "Tolerance".



You and me both.


ETA: Actually, you are a Viet Nam Vet are you not? I am pretty sure I remember that.
Bud, you should be teaching others. Tactics, the benefit of your experience. I know most of you don't want to talk about your experiences but it is essential that others learn from them. MO only but you could teach the rest of us plenty, or at least those around you. Shame to lose the knowledge and experience some of you have. Damn shame.
I am a vet but have no combat experience and there is no substitute and what you guys went thru in Nam is unlike anything else.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:39:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:45:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
i am offended at this threads attempt to not offend me.




Same here.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:58:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Drakich:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
He made the reference to statistics, not this little penguin.



And I posted a reference for them...your response...<crickets>



That doesn't say anything about your claim about the nature of the reporting system, you assume that I guess?


Your response is not much better than the crickets' response.



Try again.

Eric The(Responsible)Hun
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:01:44 AM EDT
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