Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Its all fun and games til the first round wizzes past you.

Quoted: Its all fun and games til the first round wizzes past you from helicopters that the ATF claims were not armed.

Fixed it for you.

If you didn't hate Chuck Schumer before, you will now.

Quoted: If you didn't hate Chuck Schumer before, you will now.

Anyone who knows anything about flashbangers knows that they can't harm people.
Any other allegation is just rediculous.

Quoted: Quoted: Its all fun and games til the first round comes through the roof from helicopters that the ATF claims were not armed. Fixed it for you.

Fixed it again

Wasn't there a thread with this very title last year, that went on for weeks?

<girl scream> AHHHHHHHH! <girl scream>





ETA IBTLTPODBB

In before the link to pics of dead burnt bodies

Quoted: Wasn't there a thread with this very title last year, that went on for weeks?

Actually happens about every two weeks or so.

Quoted: Quoted: Wasn't there a thread with this very title last year, that went on for weeks? Actually happens about every two weeks or so.

I just searched and found a 22 pager:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=419554

i wonder what the next one will look like ? and where it will happen , RED STATE - or -BLUE STATE ?

Quoted: <girl scream> AHHHHHHHH! <girl scream> ETA IBTLTPODBB In before the link to pics of dead burnt bodies

No dead burnt body pics here, just FBI "trophy" pictures.

Thank God those burnt up dead little girls aren't being molested anymore.

Hooray government...you saved them.

Quoted: Thank God those burnt up dead little girls aren't being molested anymore. Hooray government...you saved them.

And then took trophy pictures by the charred corpses.

Never seen it, I definitely should I guess.

Is it common in movie stores? Rental places? Torrents?

I think I'll get this right now and watch it

Waco: Rules of engagement @ Amazon

Waco: New Revelations @ Amazon

Seriously - get both.

And the first thing the ATF killed when they rolled up? A dog and her puppies in an enclosed kennel.

The evidence is there that the FBI lied about shooting the Davidians, they were under oath, but no criminal charges have been brought against anyone.  Our government dollars at work...

p.s. I'd love for Chucky to hold a "flash pak", and pull the pin :)

Don't you know that the FLIR video merely shows light gleaming off of broken glass/metal?

Those aren't gun flashes!

Quoted: Don't you know that the FLIR video merely shows light gleaming off of broken glass/metal? Those aren't gun flashes!

Yep - those flashes ain't gunshots.
Didn't you know FLIR can pick up flashes of light?
What's that?
You say the man who invented FLIR says they are gunshots?
Well...uh...

Quoted: Thank God those burnt up dead little girls aren't being molested anymore. Hooray government...you saved them.

Is that really true? or Propaganda?

I know the gov't said Koresh was molesting them but the first thing the gov't does when going after someone publicly is to demonize them.  

It makes any actions the gov't may take seem rational/justifiable.

Quoted: Quoted: Thank God those burnt up dead little girls aren't being molested anymore. Hooray government...you saved them. Is that really true? or Propaganda? I know the gov't said Koresh was molesting them but the first thing the gov't does when going after someone publicly is to demonize them.   It makes any actions the gov't may take seem rational/justifiable.

I'd be willing to believe it was true but you are sorta missing the point of my reply.

Quoted: I know the gov't Reno said Koresh was molesting them but the first thing the gov't does when going after someone publicly is to demonize them.

Fixed it.

Quoted: Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Welcome to the club!

Think this thread will get 20+ pages again?

Quoted: And the first thing the ATF killed when they rolled up? A dog and her puppies in an enclosed kennel.

The puppies had it coming..............they asked for it...............the puppies had many chances to come out before they were killed............................did I miss any excuses for killing the puppies?

Quoted: Quoted: Thank God those burnt up dead little girls aren't being molested anymore. Hooray government...you saved them. Is that really true? or Propaganda? I know the gov't said Koresh was molesting them but the first thing the gov't does when going after someone publicly is to demonize them.   It makes any actions the gov't may take seem rational/justifiable.

Koresh was screwing other guys wives and their minor age daughters. Ooops new wives.

But Waco never should have happened.

Quoted: Quoted: Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Welcome to the club! Think this thread will get 20+ pages again?

Don't know, don't care. I just hope more people see this video.

That's all. I thought it was bad, but I was wrong.

It's much worse.

I bought it a month ago.

I don't know which was worse:  the government's actions at Waco, or the government coverup afterward.  That FLIR tape was pretty damning.

Quoted: I don't know which was worse:  the government's actions at Waco, or the government coverup afterward.  That FLIR tape was pretty damning.

"Shards of glass reflecting sunlight."



Riiiiiiiiiight.

After the first half hour of background, the video got into the meat and potatoes of the raid. With every passing minute, it got worse and worse.

1. ATF calling the press beforehand and telling them "something big was going to happen in the Waco area."
2. The footage of the agents shooting the dogs was pretty pathetic.
3. "The helicopters aren't firing on you."
4. Etc, etc, etc.

I guess it just goes to prove shooting and killing federal agents isn't such a great idea.

Quoted: I guess it just goes to prove shooting and killing federal agents isn't such a great idea.

It is when THEY SHOOT FIRST, did you even watch the video?....

Put yourself in there position, your sitting there minding your own bussiness, and all of a sudden a helicopter starts circaling over head shooting through your roof, a truck pulls up, a bunch of guys in vlack with submachinguns, and no identification visibal jump out, and without warning start fireing through your front door, and start trying to climb through windows, what would you do?....

Incidently the Davidians had multipal opertunities to completely destroy the Federal assault force, and chose not to....

Opertunity 1: The terain around Mt. Caramel is flat, and the dividians can see the Deuce, and a Half (with the typical canvas cover over the back....) comeing for miles, the Davidiens had an M2 Brownging Heavy Machine Gun (The "Ma Deuce" .50 caliber, legaly registered to....) and could have litterly cut that truck in half as soon as it got into range, but they didn't....

Opertunity 2: The truck now stops, and the assault team get out, there vulnerable now, and the Davidians still have the M2, as well as other weapons available, and the ATF is well within range, the Davidians could have slautered them if they so chose, but they didn't....

Opertunity 3: The Assault team now has to advance on foot accross open ground twards the compound, and the Davidians still have the M2, and many other weapons, and were now being fired upon by the agents, and had every right to defend themselves, and easily slauter the attack team, but again they chose not to....

Opertunity 4: The Davidians finnally decided to fight back, and by now the surviveing agents are pinned down in front of the compound, and they clearly weren't expecting resistence, and or they were to unproffetional because they are completly out of ammo, totaly dry not a round left among them, at this point the Davidians could have sent out one guy with a pistol, and completely annialated the attack force, but again they didn't infact THEY CEASED FIRE, AND ALLOWED THE AGENTS TO RETREAT....

Here's the previous thread.
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=419554&page=1

Also check the photos here.

Quoted: Check this out. Remember those 'trophy shots' that were posted earlier? The ones of the 'FBI HRT' agents, proudly standing over the smoking ruins of the Mount Carmel Church? Allow me to refresh your memory.... home.comcast.net/~bborst/images/harleyguy_b.jpg home.comcast.net/~bborst/images/bduguy_b.jpg home.comcast.net/~bborst/images/buffguy_b.jpg Notice how in all these photos the JBT agents are slightly 'offset' from the middle of the frame? Now note the 'red circle'?? Allow me to introduce to you the late Raymond Freisen, age at time of death, 76 years.... home.comcast.net/~bborst/images/corps_b.jpg It is his corpse that these modern day 'storm troopers' found necessary to center in their 'trophy shots.' Imagine the conversations that preceded and followed those 'trophy shots'.... 'Hey, Joe, I found one!' 'That looks great!' 'Move over to the left, Sam, you're blocking the skull just a little!' "Can I get a 'do-over'?' What a bunch of true asshats! And, guess what? They are still likely in the employ of .gov. Eric The(Sickened)Hun

Original post here at the bottom.

Anybody who would take photos like this as souvenirs is seriously f**ked up!

Quoted: Quoted: I guess it just goes to prove shooting and killing federal agents isn't such a great idea. It is when THEY SHOOT FIRST, did you even watch the video?.... Put yourself in there position, your sitting there minding your own bussiness, and all of a sudden a helicopter starts circaling over head shooting through your roof, a truck pulls up, a bunch of guys in vlack with submachinguns, and no identification visibal jump out, and without warning start fireing through your front door, and start trying to climb through windows, what would you do?.... Incidently the Davidians had multipal opertunities to completely destroy the Federal assault force, and chose not to.... Opertunity 1: The terain around Mt. Caramel is flat, and the dividians can see the Deuce, and a Half (with the typical canvas cover over the back....) comeing for miles, the Davidiens had an M2 Brownging Heavy Machine Gun (The "Ma Deuce" .50 caliber, legaly registered to....) and could have litterly cut that truck in half as soon as it got into range, but they didn't.... Opertunity 2: The truck now stops, and the assault team get out, there vulnerable now, and the Davidians still have the M2, as well as other weapons available, and the ATF is well within range, the Davidians could have slautered them if they so chose, but they didn't.... Opertunity 3: The Assault team now has to advance on foot accross open ground twards the compound, and the Davidians still have the M2, and many other weapons, and were now being fired upon by the agents, and had every right to defend themselves, and easily slauter the attack team, but again they chose not to.... Opertunity 4: The Davidians finnally decided to fight back, and by now the surviveing agents are pinned down in front of the compound, and they clearly weren't expecting resistence, and or they were to unproffetional because they are completly out of ammo, totaly dry not a round left among them, at this point the Davidians could have sent out one guy with a pistol, and completely annialated the attack force, but again they didn't infact THEY CEASED FIRE, AND ALLOWED THE AGENTS TO RETREAT....

It's absolutely amazing that some of you guys are this twisted. How can so many facts be twisted to fit your "The Goverment is Evil" mentality?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess it just goes to prove shooting and killing federal agents isn't such a great idea. It is when THEY SHOOT FIRST, did you even watch the video?.... Put yourself in there position, your sitting there minding your own bussiness, and all of a sudden a helicopter starts circaling over head shooting through your roof, a truck pulls up, a bunch of guys in vlack with submachinguns, and no identification visibal jump out, and without warning start fireing through your front door, and start trying to climb through windows, what would you do?.... Incidently the Davidians had multipal opertunities to completely destroy the Federal assault force, and chose not to.... Opertunity 1: The terain around Mt. Caramel is flat, and the dividians can see the Deuce, and a Half (with the typical canvas cover over the back....) comeing for miles, the Davidiens had an M2 Brownging Heavy Machine Gun (The "Ma Deuce" .50 caliber, legaly registered to....) and could have litterly cut that truck in half as soon as it got into range, but they didn't.... Opertunity 2: The truck now stops, and the assault team get out, there vulnerable now, and the Davidians still have the M2, as well as other weapons available, and the ATF is well within range, the Davidians could have slautered them if they so chose, but they didn't.... Opertunity 3: The Assault team now has to advance on foot accross open ground twards the compound, and the Davidians still have the M2, and many other weapons, and were now being fired upon by the agents, and had every right to defend themselves, and easily slauter the attack team, but again they chose not to.... Opertunity 4: The Davidians finnally decided to fight back, and by now the surviveing agents are pinned down in front of the compound, and they clearly weren't expecting resistence, and or they were to unproffetional because they are completly out of ammo, totaly dry not a round left among them, at this point the Davidians could have sent out one guy with a pistol, and completely annialated the attack force, but again they didn't infact THEY CEASED FIRE, AND ALLOWED THE AGENTS TO RETREAT.... It's absolutely amazing that some of you guys are this twisted. How can so many facts be twisted to fit your "The Goverment is Evil" mentality?

Since when did the ATF start enforcing sex crimes, anyway? Sounds like something thrown out there like a red herring, to me.




GR

Quoted: Since when did the ATF start enforcing sex crimes, anyway? Sounds like something thrown out there like a red herring, to me. GR

They have always made up the rules as the day goes on, it saves the taxpayers tons of money not having a published defined mission

Quoted: It's absolutely amazing that some of you guys are this twisted. How can so many facts be twisted to fit your "The Goverment is Evil" mentality?

Boy, you are stuck on stupid.

There are some still active torrents regarding Waco.

( Click here for Torrentspy Waco search )

I stopped by there a couple of years ago while out MC riding.  They got a new church....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/jbennett1966/2004/mc/0405branchdavidian2.jpg

Nice marker too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/jbennett1966/2004/mc/0405branchdavidian1.jpg

Here's where the "compound" used to be...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/jbennett1966/2004/mc/0405branchdavidian7.jpg

Quoted: Here's where the "compound" used to be... img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/jbennett1966/2004/mc/0405branchdavidian7.jpg

Sanitized for our protection.

Quoted: Quoted: Here's where the "compound" used to be... img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/jbennett1966/2004/mc/0405branchdavidian7.jpg Sanitized for our protection.

Interesting, that.
Scene was declared "haz-mat" so all the evidence was bleached before it was collected.
Hmm...