CHP plans to fire officers for shooting alligator in New Orleans
2/10/2006
By JULIET WILLIAMS
The Associated Press

SACRAMENTO (AP) — The California Highway Patrol plans to fire two officers after an internal investigation found they used their service weapons to shoot alligators while they were working in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina, the CHP said Friday.

The probe determined the officers shot and killed at least one alligator and failed to report the firing of their weapons, as required by CHP policy, said Fran Clader, a spokeswoman at CHP headquarters in Sacramento. The officers broke Louisiana law when they killed the alligator, she said.

"This is an embarrassment to our department and especially to all our personnel who went to Louisiana and served honorably in helping the citizens of that state to recover from the clutches of disaster," she said.

The agency sent 116 Northern California officers to the state for two weeks after Hurricane Katrina landed Aug. 29, she said. They were relieved by another CHP contingent from Southern California.

The two officers are from the Sacramento area and were with Louisiana State Police troopers on Sept. 13 when they shot at alligators in a New Orleans-area bayou, the CHP said.

Louisiana State Police referred calls to the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, which is conducting a criminal investigation. The department did not return a call on Friday.

Clader said the investigation took longer than expected because of the large number of witnesses in both states. She said the CHP would not release the names of the officers while the criminal investigation is ongoing.

The officers were placed on administrative time-off pending their dismissal, but Clader declined to say whether they were being paid.

"Not reporting the discharge of a department firearm is a serious violation of department policy, leading us to conclude that termination is the appropriate action in this case," Clader said.

She would not elaborate on how many alligators the officers might have shot or whether the officers claimed to be acting in self-defense. Clader said she did not know the specific kind of gun that was used.


www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-23/1139617454155550.xml&storylist=louisiana

Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.

Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it.

Almost.  

They shot a gator.  Not a croc.   Otherwise you're correct.  

Hmm, disciplining officers for shooting an alligator but not for beating up a little old lady...

Don't really care about the gators, they are a nuisance around here as well. I would rather see an article about them firing the CHP guys that took down the old woman in her own house and confiscated her revolver.

Quoted: Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it. Almost.   They shot a gator.  Not a croc.   Otherwise you're correct.

Eh, there all long, green and have a mouth full of teeth to me.

    I was in NOLA as a soldier. A LOT of shots where fired that were not reported (unfortuneately on both sides). Gators showed up in various parts of the city. They where vermin. you destroy vermin.
    What, exactly, did the Cali Cops do wrong? I am unsure. If it had been a stray, dangerous dog-
no problem- happened all the time. Are they being busted because it was a "zoo" animal?
    Help me understand.
                                             Midwinter

No police officer should ever have to put themselves at risk from an attack from any animal as dangerous as an alligator!  It's wrong to ask someone to have to do that.  If it's someone's job, like if they work for animal control, then it's ok because they decided to do that for a living and have the training and experience to do so.

Also, since the officers were from California, I assume they had absolutely no previous experience with alligators.  I do not blame them at all even if they overreacted and erred on the side of protecting themselves.z

The story is very unclear about what happened.

If they shot it because it was posing a hazard, no big deal expect them failing to adhere to department policy.

If they just saw one and shot it for the hell of it because it seemed like a fun thing do, well thats another story and a violation of the states game laws.

Quoted: Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it. Almost.   They shot a gator.  Not a croc.   Otherwise you're correct.

<--- Crocodile.  Carry on.

Quoted:     I was in NOLA as a soldier. A LOT of shots where fired that were not reported (unfortuneately on both sides). Gators showed up in various parts of the city. They where vermin. you destroy vermin.     What, exactly, did the Cali Cops do wrong? I am unsure. If it had been a stray, dangerous dog- no problem- happened all the time. Are they being busted because it was a "zoo" animal?     Help me understand.                                              Midwinter

A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question.  He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons.  Then they denied the incident when questioned about it.  The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too.  They were required to report the incident and did not.  Game over.

Holy crap!  Writing a report for every time a firearm is discharged? We'd be up over our hips in paper from all the wounded animals we put down from running into cars.

Are the crocs/alligators some sort of endangered specie?

Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it.

This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved.

A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over.

As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge.

The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on......

how anyone could confuse an alligator with a dog?... well, I could understand if someone was keeping it as a pet they might shoot it.  

Quoted: Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it. This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved. A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over. As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge. The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on......

I don't think they should have been fired for the incident, a stiff reprimand for that would be fine by me. The lying, on the other hand, is grounds for termination to me.

The two officers are from the Sacramento area and were with Louisiana State Police troopers on Sept. 13 when they shot at alligators in a New Orleans-area bayou, the CHP said. Louisiana State Police referred calls to the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, which is conducting a criminal investigation. The department did not return a call on Friday.

If the Louisiana troopers  turned them in, then there is probably more to the story.

I guess all the dogs were shot by NG so they had to shoot SOMETHING!!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it. This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved. A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over. As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge. The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on...... I don't think they should have been fired for the incident, a stiff reprimand for that would be fine by me. The lying, on the other hand, is grounds for termination to me.

You are correct, that is what I ment to say, you just said it better.....

Dumbasses.

Quoted: Holy crap!  Writing a report for every time a firearm is discharged? We'd be up over our hips in paper from all the wounded animals we put down from running into cars.

That is correct about filing a report whenever a firearm is discharged for any reason. The cops around here use a shovel to kill injured raccoons, squirrels etc. so they don't have to file the paperwork. Large animals like deer are usually shot and the appropriate discharge of a firearm paperwork is filed. They also use the report to have the ammunition they used replaced. When a supervisor inspects all your crap you have to account for every round that was issued to you.

Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?!

Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns.  They don't want to write the reports.  

Quoted: Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?! Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns.  They don't want to write the reports.

 No, not for training exercises but they do account for the ammunition that was issued and fired.

Quoted: Are the crocs/alligators some sort of endangered specie?

I was in S. Florida for vacation years ago in Everglades National Park, and they are not endangered.  There are signs warning not to molest the wild life and don't get too close to them as they can be dangerous.

Quoted: Quoted: Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?! Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns.  They don't want to write the reports.    No, not for training exercises but they do account for the ammunition that was issued and fired.

I know, I am a cop and a firearms instructor.  I just thought saying that would fit in well here with the way some think about cops and their training habits.  

I would like to here the cops side of the story.

Quoted: Quoted: Let me see if I understand this.... Shoot a croc.......get fired. Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around. Got it. Almost.   They shot a gator.  Not a croc.   Otherwise you're correct.

A gator is a croc ... A gator is a crocodilian species.

Got to be more to this...

Quoted: Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?! Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns.  They don't want to write the reports.

Believe it or not I knew an officer in a college town that had to write a report any time they cleared leather.  The dept wouldn't even let them run with the siren in town unless it was a priority call.
Seems the students' parents were concerned with the appearance of a police state.