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Posted: 2/10/2006 11:55:32 PM EDT
CHP plans to fire officers for shooting alligator in New Orleans
2/10/2006
By JULIET WILLIAMS
The Associated Press

SACRAMENTO (AP) — The California Highway Patrol plans to fire two officers after an internal investigation found they used their service weapons to shoot alligators while they were working in Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina, the CHP said Friday.

The probe determined the officers shot and killed at least one alligator and failed to report the firing of their weapons, as required by CHP policy, said Fran Clader, a spokeswoman at CHP headquarters in Sacramento. The officers broke Louisiana law when they killed the alligator, she said.

"This is an embarrassment to our department and especially to all our personnel who went to Louisiana and served honorably in helping the citizens of that state to recover from the clutches of disaster," she said.

The agency sent 116 Northern California officers to the state for two weeks after Hurricane Katrina landed Aug. 29, she said. They were relieved by another CHP contingent from Southern California.

The two officers are from the Sacramento area and were with Louisiana State Police troopers on Sept. 13 when they shot at alligators in a New Orleans-area bayou, the CHP said.

Louisiana State Police referred calls to the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, which is conducting a criminal investigation. The department did not return a call on Friday.

Clader said the investigation took longer than expected because of the large number of witnesses in both states. She said the CHP would not release the names of the officers while the criminal investigation is ongoing.

The officers were placed on administrative time-off pending their dismissal, but Clader declined to say whether they were being paid.

"Not reporting the discharge of a department firearm is a serious violation of department policy, leading us to conclude that termination is the appropriate action in this case," Clader said.

She would not elaborate on how many alligators the officers might have shot or whether the officers claimed to be acting in self-defense. Clader said she did not know the specific kind of gun that was used.


www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-23/1139617454155550.xml&storylist=louisiana
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:59:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 12:00:04 AM EDT by Specop_007]
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:02:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



Almost.

They shot a gator. Not a croc. Otherwise you're correct.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:02:24 AM EDT
Hmm, disciplining officers for shooting an alligator but not for beating up a little old lady...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:03:16 AM EDT
Don't really care about the gators, they are a nuisance around here as well. I would rather see an article about them firing the CHP guys that took down the old woman in her own house and confiscated her revolver.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:04:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hipster:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



Almost.

They shot a gator. Not a croc. Otherwise you're correct.



Eh, there all long, green and have a mouth full of teeth to me.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 12:16:14 AM EDT
I was in NOLA as a soldier. A LOT of shots where fired that were not reported (unfortuneately on both sides). Gators showed up in various parts of the city. They where vermin. you destroy vermin.
What, exactly, did the Cali Cops do wrong? I am unsure. If it had been a stray, dangerous dog-
no problem- happened all the time. Are they being busted because it was a "zoo" animal?
Help me understand.
Midwinter
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 1:15:04 AM EDT
No police officer should ever have to put themselves at risk from an attack from any animal as dangerous as an alligator! It's wrong to ask someone to have to do that. If it's someone's job, like if they work for animal control, then it's ok because they decided to do that for a living and have the training and experience to do so.

Also, since the officers were from California, I assume they had absolutely no previous experience with alligators. I do not blame them at all even if they overreacted and erred on the side of protecting themselves.z
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:24:12 AM EDT
The story is very unclear about what happened.

If they shot it because it was posing a hazard, no big deal expect them failing to adhere to department policy.

If they just saw one and shot it for the hell of it because it seemed like a fun thing do, well thats another story and a violation of the states game laws.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:27:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hipster:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



Almost.

They shot a gator. Not a croc. Otherwise you're correct.



<--- Crocodile. Carry on.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:51:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By midwinter:
I was in NOLA as a soldier. A LOT of shots where fired that were not reported (unfortuneately on both sides). Gators showed up in various parts of the city. They where vermin. you destroy vermin.
What, exactly, did the Cali Cops do wrong? I am unsure. If it had been a stray, dangerous dog-
no problem- happened all the time. Are they being busted because it was a "zoo" animal?
Help me understand.
Midwinter



A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:03:14 AM EDT
Holy crap! Writing a report for every time a firearm is discharged? We'd be up over our hips in paper from all the wounded animals we put down from running into cars.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:51:35 AM EDT
Are the crocs/alligators some sort of endangered specie?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:53:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved.


A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over.


As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge.

The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on......
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:59:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 3:59:43 AM EDT by tfod]
how anyone could confuse an alligator with a dog?... well, I could understand if someone was keeping it as a pet they might shoot it.



Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:03:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 4:04:18 AM EDT by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By AZMAN-1:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved.


A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over.


As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge.

The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on......




I don't think they should have been fired for the incident, a stiff reprimand for that would be fine by me. The lying, on the other hand, is grounds for termination to me.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:15:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 4:16:20 AM EDT by WayneD]

The two officers are from the Sacramento area and were with Louisiana State Police troopers on Sept. 13 when they shot at alligators in a New Orleans-area bayou, the CHP said.

Louisiana State Police referred calls to the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, which is conducting a criminal investigation. The department did not return a call on Friday.



If the Louisiana troopers turned them in, then there is probably more to the story.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:29:47 AM EDT
I guess all the dogs were shot by NG so they had to shoot SOMETHING!!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:32:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By AZMAN-1:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



This sounds about par for the coarse when LEO's are involved.


A buddy of mine is CHP and knows the officers in question. He said they were fired for failing to report discharging their service weapons. Then they denied the incident when questioned about it. The NOLA cop started shooting at the gators, and then they pulled out their guns and started blasting too. They were required to report the incident and did not. Game over.


As far as the above goes, I think the Dept. is acting correctly, LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and follow the rules set by their respective departments. All too often we see what we perceive as prefferential treatment because of their badge.

The ironey comes when you see both of these incidents together, as far as I'm concerned the LEO's should have been fired in both incidents. milage may vary, yadda yadda, and so on......




I don't think they should have been fired for the incident, a stiff reprimand for that would be fine by me. The lying, on the other hand, is grounds for termination to me.



You are correct, that is what I ment to say, you just said it better.....
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 4:49:58 AM EDT
Dumbasses.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:58:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Holy crap! Writing a report for every time a firearm is discharged? We'd be up over our hips in paper from all the wounded animals we put down from running into cars.



That is correct about filing a report whenever a firearm is discharged for any reason. The cops around here use a shovel to kill injured raccoons, squirrels etc. so they don't have to file the paperwork. Large animals like deer are usually shot and the appropriate discharge of a firearm paperwork is filed. They also use the report to have the ammunition they used replaced. When a supervisor inspects all your crap you have to account for every round that was issued to you.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:06:10 AM EDT
Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?!

Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns. They don't want to write the reports.

Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:12:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Treelo:
Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?!

Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns. They don't want to write the reports.




No, not for training exercises but they do account for the ammunition that was issued and fired.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:12:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:13:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 6:14:20 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By julenissen:
Are the crocs/alligators some sort of endangered specie?


I was in S. Florida for vacation years ago in Everglades National Park, and they are not endangered. There are signs warning not to molest the wild life and don't get too close to them as they can be dangerous.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:17:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By Treelo:
Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?!

Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns. They don't want to write the reports.




No, not for training exercises but they do account for the ammunition that was issued and fired.



I know, I am a cop and a firearms instructor. I just thought saying that would fit in well here with the way some think about cops and their training habits.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:23:36 AM EDT
I would like to here the cops side of the story.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:37:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hipster:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Let me see if I understand this....

Shoot a croc.......get fired.
Tackle a grandma to the ground, illegally disarm her while violating the Bill of Rights.....awards all around.

Got it.



Almost.

They shot a gator. Not a croc. Otherwise you're correct.



A gator is a croc ... A gator is a crocodilian species.

Got to be more to this...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:39:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Treelo:
Write a report everytime your firearm is discharged?!?!

Maybe that's why a lot of cops don't train with their guns. They don't want to write the reports.



Believe it or not I knew an officer in a college town that had to write a report any time they cleared leather. The dept wouldn't even let them run with the siren in town unless it was a priority call.
Seems the students' parents were concerned with the appearance of a police state.
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