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Posted: 2/10/2006 1:18:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 3:43:56 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
Active duty but not in combat. In the Navy.

Thanks.



ETA: The reason I ask is because some chowderhead I met (former Navy, no combat) tells me he can hit a quarter at 50 yards with a Beretta 92 9mm pistol.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:19:43 PM EDT
Navy? I'd hazard a guess and say "practically none".
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:22:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 1:24:29 PM EDT by ironoxbows]

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Navy? I'd hazard a guess and say "practically none".



Depending on MOS, I'd agree.


ETA: there it is!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:28:11 PM EDT
Unless they were security, I would venture "None, unless they practiced on their own."
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:29:07 PM EDT
Yeah i could do the same thing with enough ammo.

I was an 11B (infantry) in a NG unit. We were light infantry, so 90% of our training was either directly with weapons or getting ready/putting yourself in a position to use them. Put it this way, I think I fired about the same # of rounds through the German service pistol as I did our service pistol. However, officers and/or 11C's (mortars) got more training with them than us B's did, basically b/c they carried them and we didn't.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:
Unless they were security, I would venture "None, unless they practiced on their own."



'Zactly, Security and the NavSpecWar types are probably the only ones who get significant range time.

FWIW though, I wasn't in the Navy, but I can hit a quarter @ 50yds with a Beretta....and a ransom rest with about 200 rds
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:30:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 1:38:28 PM EDT by Pointman_M4A1]
You qualify in bootcamp with the 1911 .22 ACE conversions (at least in 94) and that's it unless you are in a job that requires firearms (Master-At-Arms(Navy MP), FMF/Recon Corpsmen, SEAL, Gunners Mate, SeaBee's, etc) other than that the regular deck-apes have no reason to ever fire or handle a firearm.

Unless he fits into one of the above groups of sailors he's full o'sh*t.



DOC
USA 1989-1994 (91B)
USN 1994-2000 (HM 8404/8427)
USA 2003-Present (MP)
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:31:36 PM EDT
USN Aviator. Annual pistol qualification - that's it. I was able to shoot quals pretty much as often as my schedule allowed though. The squadron AO appreciated that I was pretty much the only mid-grade who would stick around to clean pistols after the shoot.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:34:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 1:36:10 PM EDT by ChrisLe]
Unless they're an MA (Maste At Arms), close to nothing. In boot you only famfire (familiarization fire) the M9 and M16. Even then you only get to fire maybe 50rds for each weapon. Also, there is no qual that I'm aware of.

The only other squids that get to play are the Corpsmen assigned to the Marines. They get to qual and play with all of the good stuff (M16, M9, M2, Mk19, M249, M240G, etc) the Marines have to offer. In fact, the Marines encourage their Docs to fire and qual on the M16 and M9 (as a bare minimum)....

ETA: It goes without question that Squids in Specops get to play all day long also...
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:41:33 PM EDT
I was attending an open house at an AF base and I was talking to the Security Forces guy [E2] and I asked how much ammo they get to shoot and he said 1000's and 1000's out of the M60 that he had on display.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:47:31 PM EDT
i have a friend who went to great lakes in the mid 90's he was the last class to actually shoot the M16, something about closing the range because lead was seeping into the lake. the Navy isnt really the service for those who want to be "hookin and jabbin" anyway. if you ask me, the best job in the Navy is being a Corpsman. you get world class medical training, you can wear the Marine service and dress uniforms and Marines take good care of doc. everytime we went to the range we would let the docs shoot everything we had. we love Doc.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:00:28 PM EDT
My son is 7 months in, number one in his class for Master at Arms, has PRP and is stationed at SWFPAC and he has less than 300 round total pistol and rifle combined. He shot more in one day playing around with us at the range on leave than his entire training.

They do shoot the simulator alot. And this seems to be pretty good tactical training. But actual round count is very low.

The most surprizing part, is that he has not shot full auto yet in the Navy. He carries a FA gun, but not allowed to go FA. Luckily, the local SWAT guys let him play a little.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:02:37 PM EDT
and I can hit a quarter at 50 yards with my XD.... You just have to give a couple hundred rounds to do it... Alright, maybe 400 rounds... lol
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:16:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 2:20:02 PM EDT by DaddyDett]
never mind

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:23:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 2:31:39 PM EDT by fike]
A Seabee range is about a mile from me and they do get quite a bit of practice. They've been doing alot of night shoots recently.

MAs, SpecOps probably get the most trigger time.

ASF (Auxillary Security Force) and weapons carrying watch standers have to qualify annually.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 2:27:45 PM EDT
Depends on the Service member. I know Squids and Flyboys who practice on their own and can hit "something" at 50 yd, and I know Marines who get their bolt release and mag release confused...
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:49:20 PM EDT
Thanks for the input so far.

I am taking a week off work (which is where I post from so I am off ARFCOM for a week) so everyone have a good time and stay safe. My buddy from Canada is coming down to ski, go 4-wheeling and shoot guns. See you all in a while.

Please rock the poll and make this a decisive conclusion when I get back.


Cheers everyone.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:03:11 PM EDT
I'd have to call him out on that one.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 4:11:42 PM EDT
A service M9 is unlikely to have the mechanical accuracy to hit a quarter every time at even 15 yards.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:12:29 PM EDT
Bare minimum according for friends and family.

SRM
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:20:01 PM EDT
You could have it locked down in a vise, and it still wouldn't hit it everytime, the POS, I mean pistol isn't capable of that accuracy. He's full of shit.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:28:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
A service M9 is unlikely to have the mechanical accuracy to hit a quarter every time at even 15 yards.



I can at 15; no one can at 50.

Larry
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:34:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
I was attending an open house at an AF base and I was talking to the Security Forces guy [E2] and I asked how much ammo they get to shoot and he said 1000's and 1000's out of the M60 that he had on display.




Yep,

When I was in, you had to qualify every six months for each type weapon you were trained on. M9, M16/GAU-5, M203, M60, shotgun, Mark-19, etc.

Plus, you had additional special qualifications like night firing, gas mask firing, firing from moving vehicles, etc. For some guys (like me), that was range time once a month, every month.

And if you still couldn't get enough, just hang out with the Combat Arms folks, who had to shoot almost every week. They'd let you blast away with all the toys as long as you helped clean them.

It got to the point that some guys were complaining about spending so much of their off-duty time at the range.






Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:34:49 PM EDT

Most accomplsihed target shooters would have trouble hitting a quarter at 50 yards consistently.


Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Most accomplsihed target shooters would have trouble hitting a quarter at 50 yards consistently.





no kiddin'
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:50:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:51:40 PM EDT
200/300/500 Meters (Marines)

Hey they're a department of the Navy.......

T­he MENS DEPARTMENT!


Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:58:43 PM EDT
I could probably hit maybe 1 quarter in 20 or 30 rounds with my target S&W Model 41 .22

Government issue 92 - it would be pure luck
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:05:18 PM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Active duty but not in combat. In the Navy.

Thanks.



ETA: The reason I ask is because some chowderhead I met (former Navy, no combat) tells me he can hit a quarter at 50 yards with a Beretta 92 9mm pistol.



He may be able to hit a quarter at 50 yards with an M9. Some people are just great shooters even with little practice. (As far as hitting targets) But I sincerely doubt he can do it on demand. At that range with iron sights it is more a matter of luck than skill.

The best I can manage reliably is a poker chip at that yardage, and even then it is tough, and I have to use my 1911 to do it.

The best shot I have ever made was hitting the primer of a 20 guage shotgun shell (empty shell...) with a Ruger MKII from 20 yards.

That being said, traditionally the Navy didn't do a whole lot of small arms training. In the new WOT world we live in, however, they may get more trigger time than they used to. I know that the Navy has worked to improve small arms training for new recruits, but I don't know what level of training they keep up.

Usually pistol training for most in the .mil isn't stellar.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:09:17 PM EDT
Any Soldier that can't qualify Expert on the Army Pistol qual with the M9 should not be allowed to carry any firearm.

That being said, I can honestly say I was a medic assigned to a 11C plt. I qualified once a year and never packed a M-16, I fired Expert in Basic training and never touched one again. I packed a Ithaca Arms .45, then a M9...I did hang lots and lots of rounds out of 81's, 4-duce's, and 120's though.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 10:28:27 PM EDT
Depends on what you do and where you do it. They are probably getting more than the noted 15 years ago experience quoted, if in the right job. In most jobs they may never see a firearm.

My reserve unit was required by the gaining command to qualify and the Fleet Level Command. However nobody would fund the ammo. We generally bought our own 45 or 38. We finally got the powers to be to fund a rifle qual and lo and behold we showed up at the range expecting M-16s and they were M-14s. All the guys with shooting experience were ALL RIGHT REAL GUNS, most of the ladies and some of the guys who had never shot were "Holy Shit, we have to hold those and shoot at the same time?"

But most Navy units that are stateside and support units probably never shoot. Deploying units probably have a higher percentage of folks that will get qualified. Ships for example, I doubt any of the engineers ever shoot, most CIC types probably don't and so on.
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