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Posted: 2/10/2006 9:11:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:16:35 AM EDT by garandman]
NO ONE like a snitch. But I'm thinking my hand is forced. As a CCW instructor myself, I havea fiduciary duty as well as the authority to deny CCW permits.

The whole thing started from this thread...www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=435006&page=15

Page 15

The poster described himself - even after I seriously challenged his authenticity - as on the edge of "going postal." Apparently, he said as much in front of a jury.

He also described himself as "warning" his lawyers not to go "beyond their bounds." These are people he is PAYING to be on his side, and he mildly threatens them.

While no one likes a snitch, and I never thoguht I'd do it, I also remember IF ONLY the trainers had told SOMEONE about people who wanted to learn to fly a plane but NOT to land the plane...if they had told SOMEONE about that very unusual thing...

As a CCW instructor myself, can I really sit by and let this go? Again, I pressed this guy REAL hard and he maintains that he has REALLY done these things.

I'm really conflicted here. But I think it better to "self police" than to have a CCW permittee "go postal."

I have a fiduciary duty. "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Doing nothing didn't work our so well three out of four times on Sept 11. In one occasion, doing something helped. It saved lives.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:13:37 AM EDT
You can bet if he does 'go postal' some men in suits will show up at your door wanting to give you some blame. I'd CYA.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:16:21 AM EDT
I can't believe that thread is STILL going.....
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:16:28 AM EDT
not my problem
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:16:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
not my problem



No, its my problem.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:19:21 AM EDT
Never let Internet board ramblings spill over into your real life. No good will come of it.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:20:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dolanp:
You can bet if he does 'go postal' some men in suits will show up at your door wanting to give you some blame. I'd CYA.



How could Garandman be at fault? He didn't do the certification, right?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:20:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:22:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:I'm really conflicted here. But I think it better to "self police" than to have a CCW permittee "go postal."

I have a fiduciary duty.



You have taken this thing WAY too far.

And what gives you the right to pass judgement onto another like this?
You don't even KNOW this man, and yet, you've got him pegged, you've got a giant hardon, and you are willing to go out of your way to rat him out.

Disgusting, and you should be ashamed,
and you know damn well you're taking his statements OUT OF CONTEXT.

Even I am ashamed FOR YOU.



Just remember one thing...
Karma is a bitch.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:23:45 AM EDT
So long as when you call them you start out with, "Do you know who I am, what I've done....??"

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:24:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:27:11 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
I stopped reading that thread after a while - it was just too retarded.

But, as a somewhat unrelated point, if he WAS "Baker Acted" - doesn't that preclude him from being allowed to own firearms? Or does not rise to the level of being involuntarily commited, or whatever the teminology is on the 4473?



Just curious. Not necessarily relevant to your question, but a more general questiona bout the law


ETA: To answer your question, I don't think I would take the internet to the real world without a clear and present threat of violence. I don't think this example even comes close.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I did not read that whole thread, but is a potentially off hand comment about "going postal" enough to set something like this in motion? He apparently does not care from his reaction to you though so I guess if he doesn't care we shouldn't.



Off hand comment IN FRONT OF A JURY?

As I recall, that's how it happenned. IF ANYTHING, he prolly toned it down while in front of the jury.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:25:41 AM EDT
Do what you must but why single out one person I have read many post that would make me think someone was boarderline crazy on this web-site.....you should make it your mission to see if they are CCW and rat on them....i mean you do have a fiduciary duty....
fiduciary
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:25:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
So long as when you call them you start out with, "Do you know who I am, what I've done....??"




And bore them with my dull life? Now that WOULD be a crime.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:26:18 AM EDT
The problem is, garandman has a legal responsibility regarding CCWs, and has now specifically witnessed some behavior that calls in question somebody's fitness for a CCW. If the CCW holder is operating in the same state as garandman, and if something should happen where the CCW holder does something stupid and gets himself or somebody else hurt or dead, in theory, that could actually come back to haunt garandman in a legal manner. Its not very likely, but it is a real possibility.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:26:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:28:45 AM EDT by cluster]
if this was a real life work place... sure... but its the god damned INTERNET!!!

on whats basicly an online chatroom..

eta.. didnt read the whole thing...

if its all on the net,.. leave it a lone.,,,


if you actually witnessed it in REAL LIFE go for it..


guy could be laughing his ass off as he types cause he KNOWS its the internet and not real.


Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:28:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AzSteven:
The problem is, garandman has a legal responsibility regarding CCWs, and has now specifically witnessed some behavior that calls in question somebody's fitness for a CCW. If the CCW holder is operating in the same state as garandman, and if something should happen where the CCW holder does something stupid and gets himself or somebody else hurt or dead, in theory, that could actually come back to haunt garandman in a legal manner. Its not very likely, but it is a real possibility.



Yes im sure your right but why stop there why not go after all of the web-crazy people on here!!! Why just stop at one it could be a whole new way of life....
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:28:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

And what gives you the right to pass judgement onto another like this?




Well, my SLED certification as a CCW insatructor REQUIRES me to "pass judgment." For ONE thing....


You don't even KNOW this man, and yet, you've got him pegged, you've got a giant hardon, and you are willing to go out of your way to rat him out.


I pressed him hard, and he INSISTS I have the facts accurately. What I know about him is from his own mouth.




Just remember one thing...
Karma is a bitch.



So is inactivity. Ask 3,000 9/11 victims.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:29:08 AM EDT
What authority or who bestows these super power to CCW instuctors the FBI, State Police, local sherrif ?
I only ask because I know its not the leading training org for firearms instuction the NRA.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:29:13 AM EDT
1) This is the internet.

2) Things on the internet could be made up.

3) Unless you are 100% certain all facts line up and all bases have been covered, and all information has been vetted, I wouldn't even begin to put my neck on the line for anyone or anything having to do with something I read on the internet. Further, I would require a "sanity check" from a bona fide source before doing anything...
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:29:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AzSteven:
The problem is, garandman has a legal responsibility regarding CCWs, and has now specifically witnessed some behavior that calls in question somebody's fitness for a CCW. If the CCW holder is operating in the same state as garandman, and if something should happen where the CCW holder does something stupid and gets himself or somebody else hurt or dead, in theory, that could actually come back to haunt garandman in a legal manner. Its not very likely, but it is a real possibility.



In full disclosure, not the same state, but reciprocity is at issue betwen Florida and my home state.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:30:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:30:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
What authority or who bestows these super power to CCW instuctors the FBI, State Police, local sherrif ?
I only ask because I know its not the leading training org for firearms instuction the NRA.




In my state its the State Law Enforcement Division. (SLED)

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:31:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

I can't believe it even popped into your head to rat on him....




Are you a CCW instructor, entrusted with testing permittes suitability for possessing a CCW permit?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:31:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

And what gives you the right to pass judgement onto another like this?




Well, my SLED certification as a CCW insatructor REQUIRES me to "pass judgment." For ONE thing....


You don't even KNOW this man, and yet, you've got him pegged, you've got a giant hardon, and you are willing to go out of your way to rat him out.


I pressed him hard, and he INSISTS I have the facts accurately. What I know about him is from his own mouth.




Just remember one thing...
Karma is a bitch.



So is inactivity. Ask 3,000 9/11 victims.




If you feel its your duty or if you will sleep better tonight by all means do it....but dont just single "FBI" out go after all the other nuts jobs on here....thats my problem with this garandman...it seems like you are singiling someone out because you two got into a pissing contest...but of course this is the internet.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:33:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
1) This is the internet.

2) Things on the internet could be made up.

3) Unless you are 100% certain all facts line up and all bases have been covered, and all information has been vetted, I wouldn't even begin to put my neck on the line for anyone or anything having to do with something I read on the internet. Further, I would require a "sanity check" from a bona fide source before doing anything...



Your point # 3 has merit. But its this guys actions - and his foolishness in broadcasting them - that has me on the hook. I'm ALREADY jammed up here.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:33:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

I can't believe it even popped into your head to rat on him....




Are you a CCW instructor, entrusted with testing permittes suitability for possessing a CCW permit?



all people are equal some just more equal than others....
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:33:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:36:21 AM EDT by cluster]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

You don't even KNOW this man, and yet, you've got him pegged, you've got a giant hardon, and you are willing to go out of your way to rat him out.



I pressed him hard, and he INSISTS I have the facts accurately. What I know about him is from his own mouth..




no disrespect granadman..

but if you presure me and im having a good day... i will/can lead you to believe i did just about anything and swear to it on my mothers grave,,,

why,, cause its the internet ...not real..

if you are dealing with him in real life and see the same thing then its your call.. otherwise... its just the net...


hell sometimes.,.. when im bored... i change my gender in my yahooo profile so i can get into the lesbain chats rooms.. cause its only the internet .. not real.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:33:50 AM EDT
When I first started reading that thread I was thinking man that guy just doesn't have a clue how his behavior looks. Sort of like the over weight guy wearing camo at the gun show while reading a brochure from the militia table. But as I read on the guy repeatedly did things that anyone with common sense just would not do, he then flat out ignored the advice of friends and those he was paying to help him, and when he got smacked around for continuing his strange behavior he blamed everyone else. To me that shows it goes beyond just not having a clue to a having possible mental disorder. The last thing we as gun owners need is someone with a CCW permit and a mental condition shooting up anything. So I think garandman is perfectly right to report him so that someone qualified can check him out. His behavior and thinking warrants this.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:34:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:37:32 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By BURN:
If you feel its your duty or if you will sleep better tonight by all means do it....but dont just single "FBI" out go after all the other nuts jobs on here....thats my problem with this garandman...it seems like you are singiling someone out because you two got into a pissing contest...but of course this is the internet.



Maybe you are right.

The one difference here is the level of detail he has made me aware of, and the seriousness of what he has divulged.

I've heard LOTS of crazies here at Arfcom - but nothing like this.

If he were in SC, I'd ABSOLUTELY report him. I could go to jail for NOT reporting him.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:35:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
When I first started reading that thread I was thinking man that guy just doesn't have a clue how his behavior looks. Sort of like the over weight guy wearing camo at the gun show while reading a brochure from the militia table. But as I read on the guy repeatedly did things that anyone with common sense just would not do, he then flat out ignored the advice of friends and those he was paying to help him, and when he got smacked around for continuing his strange behavior he blamed everyone else. To me that shows it goes beyond just not having a clue to a having possible mental disorder. The last thing we as gun owners need is someone with a CCW permit and a mental condition shooting up anything. So I think garandman is perfectly right to report him so that someone qualified can check him out. His behavior and thinking warrants this.



Ok but what about the other idiots that sprout off in the early morning air with stupid stuff they do.....go after them too and im ok with this


not that it matters what i am ok with or not just my .02
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:35:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:36:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
When I first started reading that thread I was thinking man that guy just doesn't have a clue how his behavior looks. Sort of like the over weight guy wearing camo at the gun show while reading a brochure from the militia table. But as I read on the guy repeatedly did things that anyone with common sense just would not do, he then flat out ignored the advice of friends and those he was paying to help him, and when he got smacked around for continuing his strange behavior he blamed everyone else. To me that shows it goes beyond just not having a clue to a having possible mental disorder. The last thing we as gun owners need is someone with a CCW permit and a mental condition shooting up anything. So I think garandman is perfectly right to report him so that someone qualified can check him out. His behavior and thinking warrants this.



Well said.

man, this sucks. I hate this



Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:37:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
hell sometimes.,.. when im bored... i change my gender in my yahooo profile so i can get into the lesbain chats rooms.. cause its only the internet .. not real.




Oh damn, that's funny!!
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:37:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:38:27 AM EDT by BURN]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By BURN:
If you feel its your duty or if you will sleep better tonight by all means do it....but dont just single "FBI" out go after all the other nuts jobs on here....thats my problem with this garandman...it seems like you are singiling someone out because you two got into a pissing contest...but of course this is the internet.



Maybe you are right.

The one difference here is the level of detail he has made me aware of, and the seriousness of what he has divulged.

I've heard LOTS of crazies here at Arfcom - but nothing like this.



I mean the Judge heard his comments could the judge have looked into this if he thought that "FBI" needed to loose his CCW....

edit cause i type all funny
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:38:24 AM EDT
I wouldn't worry about snitching on him.

I think the authorities already have a clue to what he is all about.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:38:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BURN:

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By BURN:
If you feel its your duty or if you will sleep better tonight by all means do it....but dont just single "FBI" out go after all the other nuts jobs on here....thats my problem with this garandman...it seems like you are singiling someone out because you two got into a pissing contest...but of course this is the internet.



Maybe you are right.

The one difference here is the level of detail he has made me aware of, and the seriousness of what he has divulged.

I've heard LOTS of crazies here at Arfcom - but nothing like this.



I mean the Judge heard his comments could the judge persude this if he thought that "FBI" needed to loose his CCW....



As I understand it, his CCW has ALREADY BEEN REVOKED once. He either has had it reinstated, or is attempting to do so.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:38:46 AM EDT
How is it exactly YOUR, personal fiduciary duty what he, or any ccw holder for that matter, says?

And being that you aren't law enforcement, & he has only said an emotional statement, not physically hurt anyone, what business is it of yours?

Are you personally & financially held liable for what a ccw holder says or does? Or are you worried that SOMEHOW this will affect your business?

Also, why to YOU get to decide who gets a CCW & who doesn't? You state govt or something?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:39:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:39:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
I wouldn't worry about snitching on him.

I think the authorities already have a clue to what he is all about.





If the threat is there with "FBI" history in the court room +1000
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:40:11 AM EDT
If you believe any of the shit that anyone posts on the internet then someone should revoke YOUR CCW!

Pressed him real hard. Come on dude, maybe he was playing into how serious you were taking him to get a laugh off of someone on the internet.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:40:21 AM EDT
I predict this will not end well.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:42:12 AM EDT
His statements were made during court testimony in 1999.

Might want to keep that in mind.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:44:19 AM EDT
I can understand your concern here but a quote from the previous thread come to mind.

"Never let Internet board ramblings spill over into your real life. No good will come of it. "

He has basicaly given you permission to turn him in. If he wants to stand up to people who can potentially run him over for a minor annoyance then I say let him.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:45:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skebe:
How is it exactly YOUR, personal fiduciary duty what he, or any ccw holder for that matter, says?

And being that you aren't law enforcement, & he has only said an emotional statement, not physically hurt anyone, what business is it of yours?

Are you personally & financially held liable for what a ccw holder says or does? Or are you worried that SOMEHOW this will affect your business?

Also, why to YOU get to decide who gets a CCW & who doesn't? You state govt or something?



I sign off on the apps. No signature, no permit.

MY records are subject to audit. Penalties exist at law for me no doing my job.

Its NOT a business. I make less than mimimum wage for my time. I teach CCW because I beelive its VITALLY important.

And ANYONE whose actions or words indicates to me they are unfit, I am bound at law to deny the app.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:46:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 9:49:33 AM EDT by fla556guy]
well, if you have a duty to report, and you have the ability to keep this guy from getting a CCW, then maybe it's for the greater good. The man sounds a bit derranged, and may do more harm to your state's ability to keep their CCW policy in tact. What's worse than someone you taught and gave a CCW to, and then have that person go out and kill someone. Looks badly on every legal, law abiding citizen who CCW's only for self protection.

Edited to add...I forgot to read the whole thread...ESP about his CCW being revoked...nevermind.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:47:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:47:04 AM EDT
For those saying he was probably joking because it's only the internet, do you remember Rebel Gray? I see this situation two possible ways.
1. He's telling the truth, in which case someone needs to evaluate him.
2. He's making up a story for the internet portraying CCW holders as dumb bumbling idiots who don't have a clue and threaten juries. In which case that person should be tracked down and CCW should be taken away.

Even as a joke there is nothing good that can come from what is said in that thread.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:48:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:49:41 AM EDT
That thread reads like the typical rantings of an attention whore. I'd write it off and move along.


Is it just me or does it seem like a the newbies to this board just get goofier and goofier?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:50:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Damn are you good that you can tell someones intent over the internet. You could be making really big bucks. Pyscologists with the patients right in front of them often can't do that.

I'm also curious how state license in SC gives you authority over someone in AZ? You're a CCW instructor bud not the FBI.

Tj



I believe its FLorida, and the main connection is thru teh concept of reciprocity.

Read the guys whole story. If he is THAT good at making stuff up - with internet links, and newspaper articles and such - then he IS crazy, and has no business with a permit.

I'm just trying to do what is right, and not get jammed up myself. Usually, its live and let live when it comes to guns, but like I said and all ..."evil....triumph....do nothing...."



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