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Posted: 2/8/2006 8:03:47 AM EDT
Oh no, the Patriot Act will never be used against ordinary citizens....

Wise up people.



Published: Feb 8, 2006

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ST. LEO - The nuns of the Holy Name Monastery say they have been swept into the net cast by the nation's antiterrorism laws.

The sisters say the monastery's main bank account was frozen without explanation in November, creating financial headaches and making the Benedictine nuns hopping mad. They were told the Patriot Act was the cause.

"I think the Patriot Act is unwise, let's say, and that if it happened to us, it can happen to anybody," said Sister Jean Abbott, the monastery's business manager. "I think people need to know that nobody is safe from, in some cases, really ridiculous scrutiny."

The nuns didn't know anything was amiss until Nov. 10, when their checks started bouncing without warning and the account wouldn't accept deposits, including paychecks from state agencies where some of the sisters hold jobs.

Two of the bounced checks had gone to other charities, Abbott said. Others went to pay Visa and utility bills. In all, the account was frozen for a week. In that time, 22 checks were returned with an ominous but baffling stamp: "Refer to Maker."

Before everything was straightened out, the nuns ran up $399.56 in fees, which were later reimbursed by their apologetic local bank, Abbott said. The mess took nearly three months to remedy, she said.

"It was annoying," Abbott said. "I wasn't angry with our local bank because they were doing the best they could." The corporate entity that owns the bank is another issue.

Sister Mary Clare Neuhofer said it was Wachovia.

Kevin Bezner, a spokesman for Wachovia, declined to comment, citing privacy concerns.

Problems Began With 80-Year-Old
Abbott said she was told the troubles started because one 80-year-old nun who is a signatory to the account didn't have her Social Security number and photo ID on file.

"Clearly an international spy," Abbott said wryly.

None of the nuns has given the bank that information, Abbott said. "We've been in business 116 years. No one's ever asked."

Against the Patriot Act from the start, the sisters have members of Congress on speed dial, Abbott said. "They'll be hearing from us now that this is all settled."

Among the lesser-known parts of the USA Patriot Act are banking provisions designed to help law enforcement agents track potential terrorists and money launderers. The law holds financial institutions accountable if money is funneled through them to terrorist organizations.

Consequently, experts say, banks have set up a variety of rules intended to ensure they know who their customers are.

But legal experts familiar with the Patriot Act disagree about what the act requires.

One thing is clear. "The Patriot Act does not require that nuns' bank accounts be frozen," said Chris Hansen, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington. "The Patriot Act has a lot of problems, but that's not one of them."

But Hansen said he has no reason to doubt that the nuns were told the Patriot Act was behind their troubles. "It is our experience that there are a lot of things these days where people say, 'The Patriot Act made us do it.' Often it's true, but it isn't always true."

Chris Hoofnagle, senior counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said the Patriot Act requires banks to verify client information on all new bank accounts but not on existing accounts. Many banks, however, are checking information on existing accounts as well.

"They don't want to look at their rolls and see Osama bin Laden and then risk the wrath of Congress," he said.




The rest of the story...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:09:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:11:17 AM EDT by jrzy]
BS!

Is was wachovia's fault , the whole damn mess.
They caused it by their own incomptdence.

Read the story.

Edited to ask:

captainpooby did you even read the story?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:19:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS!

Is was wachovia's fault , the whole damn mess.
They caused it by their own incomptdence.

Read the story.

Edited to ask:

captainpooby did you even read the story?



Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others.

You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:24:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:26:50 AM EDT by Dusty_C]
You ask anyone here that went to catholic school if nuns are terrorists!


ETA It being nuns makes it look worse than it is. They had a bank account holder that didn't have their personal information on file. That is a suspicious thing.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:25:04 AM EDT
Catholicism = Terrorism?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:27:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Catholicism = Terrorism?

Buddy of mine grew up catholic and went to catholic schools, he thinks so
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:34:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You ask anyone here that went to catholic school if nuns are terrorists!


ETA It being nuns makes it look worse than it is. They had a bank account holder that didn't have their personal information on file. That is a suspicious thing.



Probable Sinn Fein bag lady.

Warning to captainpooby- rejoin the herd or be crushed!


Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:41:54 AM EDT
Big mistake captainpooby.
President Bush can make no mistakes.
None.
Ever.
To question him, is to invite the wrath of the ARFcom Never-Bash-Bush Brigade.
You obviously are a terrorist sympathizer!
Go back to DU!
Don't you support the troops?

Just figured I'd save some time and get that out of the way.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:43:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS!

Is was wachovia's fault , the whole damn mess.
They caused it by their own incomptdence.

Read the story.

Edited to ask:

captainpooby did you even read the story?



Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others.

You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.




If there was no law against murder, there would be no murders.

By this thinking, if it can be used in a wrong or illegal way, it should be removed, this would include things like firearms and of all things, money.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:47:21 AM EDT
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:55:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:00:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:34:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.



We might as well have no laws then. Name a law and chances are someone's wrongfully been found guilty of it - murder, speeding, shoplifting, wire fraud, etc etc.

Make murder legal so that no one wrongfully gets the chair for it.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:37:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:44:01 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Oh no, the Patriot Act will never be used against ordinary citizens....

Wise up people.


Published: Feb 8, 2006

The sisters say the monastery's main bank account was frozen without explanation in November, creating financial headaches and making the Benedictine nuns hopping mad. They were told the Patriot Act was the cause.



Maybe YOU should wise up.............They were TOLD???????????????? Yeah, that makes it true, huh.



One thing is clear. "The Patriot Act does not require that nuns' bank accounts be frozen," said Chris Hansen, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington. "The Patriot Act has a lot of problems, but that's not one of them."

But Hansen said he has no reason to doubt that the nuns were told the Patriot Act was behind their troubles. "It is our experience that there are a lot of things these days where people say, 'The Patriot Act made us do it.' Often it's true, but it isn't always true."



Sheesh, even the ACLU doubts that the Patriot Act was behind it and you bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

Yeah, there was NO agenda behind this bullshit.

More:


Peter Djinis, a Virginia lawyer, formerly headed the regulatory program of the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, better known as FinCen, a bureau of the Treasury Department. He said the nuns' situation doesn't make sense.

"The Patriot Act under these circumstances would not require a bank to freeze anything," Djinis said. "It required the Treasury Department and federal banking agencies to establish minimum customer identification standards for setting up new accounts." That information includes the person's name, address, birth date and Social Security number. No account could be opened after Oct. 1, 2003, without that information.

The point is to allow investigators to track transactions with accurate information about the parties involved, Djinis said. Its aim is to keep accounts from being established under false names.




Anne Marie Kelly, a spokeswoman for FinCen, said banks are required to file suspicious activity reports, also known as SARS, but not to freeze accounts. That would be up to the bank, she said, and possibly the Office of Comptroller of the Currency.


Maybe you should try reading the whole article before crying wolf.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:45:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.



Good grief, what paranoid rantings.

Try reading the fucking article.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:46:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS!

Is was wachovia's fault , the whole damn mess.
They caused it by their own incomptdence.

Read the story.

Edited to ask:

captainpooby did you even read the story?



Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others.

You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.



Obviously you did NOT read the story.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:47:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:49:51 AM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By captainpooby: Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others. You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.
Actually, the Patriot Act wasn't really to blame for this. The bank SHOULD have had their SS# and ID in the first place. So what if they've been around for 100+ years? The current nuns weren't around when church opened. So Wachovia gave banking authority to an individual w/o proper paperwork, not a smart move for a BANK. If Wachovia IT security ran a sweep and froze the unverified accounts, the nun's would get hit anyway! That's why Wachovia refunded the fees. So in this case the Patriot Act wasn't used against ordinary citizens. It was used against an incompetent banking institution, who ended up with bad PR and had to cough up the refund.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:15:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 10:25:07 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Big mistake captainpooby.
President Bush can make no mistakes.
None.
Ever.
To question him, is to invite the wrath of the ARFcom Never-Bash-Bush Brigade.
You obviously are a terrorist sympathizer!
Go back to DU!
Don't you support the troops?

Just figured I'd save some time and get that out of the way.



Asinine childish claptrap worthy of a six year old or a DU knuckle dragger...

Hundreds of real accounts used by terrorist have been seized under theses laws... are we to unfreeze these accounts.

Only a damn fool would suggest as captainpooby did...


Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others.

You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.



The only intelligent thing in that idiocy is that… You can’t look at this story in a vacuum.

This story must be viewed in the context of stopping international terrorist trying to kill people. Only a tin foil nut could stretch this story about a mistake in to a reason void the Patriot Act.

Grow up.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:18:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By captainpooby: Yes I did and I understand your point but the fact is, if there was no Patriot act their account would never have been frozen. It's an unintended consequence and there will be others. You cant look at this story in a vaccuum.
Actually, the Patriot Act wasn't really to blame for this. The bank SHOULD have had their SS# and ID in the first place. So what if they've been around for 100+ years? The current nuns weren't around when church opened. So Wachovia gave banking authority to an individual w/o proper paperwork, not a smart move for a BANK. If Wachovia IT security ran a sweep and froze the unverified accounts, the nun's would get hit anyway! That's why Wachovia refunded the fees. So in this case the Patriot Act wasn't used against ordinary citizens. It was used against an incompetent banking institution, who ended up with bad PR and had to cough up the refund.



$10 says Wachovia bought a small local bank and the Sisters were skating by on the ID thing because of the good graces of the former owner.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:23:20 AM EDT
Some of you boys are clearly mainlining way too much aluminum foil...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:25:46 AM EDT
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:29:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster: $10 says Wachovia bought a small local bank and the Sisters were skating by on the ID thing because of the good graces of the former owner.
Hmmmm, the Force is strong with Dracster.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:30:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.



Good grief, what paranoid rantings.

Try reading the fucking article.



Hey goofball, he did. and, I agree with his remarks.. Why don't YOU read the fucking story...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.



But, but.........it's an excuse to bitch about the Patriot Act, the facts be damned. Get with the program, man.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:34:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 10:36:12 AM EDT by Az_Redneck]
Maybe the Feds got confused and thought THESE were the virgins allah was planning on using for his incoming and they wanted to put a stop to it while they were still on earth..

Thanks to our hero's, he's got to be running out of virgins by now and looking elsewhere for a fresh supply!

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:36:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 10:37:01 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.



Good grief, what paranoid rantings.

Try reading the fucking article.



Hey goofball, he did. and, I agree with his remarks.. Why don't YOU read the fucking story...



I read the story. It has nothing to do with the Patriot Act. Apparently you didn't go to the linked article and read the story either.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:37:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.



But, but.........it's an excuse to bitch about the Patriot Act, the facts be damned. Get with the program, man.

We agree twice in 2 days. It's the apocalypse!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:39:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:40:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:


Against the Patriot Act from the start, the sisters have members of Congress on speed dial, Abbott said. "They'll be hearing from us now that this is all settled."



The law (regardless of what law) requires ID a matricular consul card and social security card T.I.N. to have a bank account, but instead of requesting the info from the nuns the bank freezes their account? That's hardly a ringing condemnation of the law, particularly coming from nuns with an axe to grind.



fixed to reflect our multi-cultrual society.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:44:05 AM EDT
Who told them?

"The Nuns were told it was the Patriot Act" Ah, they were TOLD it was the P.A., that means it must be true.

Was it the bank that told them? Unless they are brought up on charges, or a member of a government agency says "It was because of the Patriot Act" than how do we know it was? Sounds like the nuns have an agenda here (typically shared by those who haven't actually read the law)
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:48:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Who told them?

"The Nuns were told it was the Patriot Act" Ah, they were TOLD it was the P.A., that means it must be true.

Was it the bank that told them? Unless they are brought up on charges, or a member of a government agency says "It was because of the Patriot Act" than how do we know it was? Sounds like the nuns have an agenda here (typically shared by those who haven't actually read the law)



Once again, someone introducing facts into the delusional paranoidal rantings. You must not do that. Haven't you seen the claims of having read the article and knowing that it was because of the Patriot Act?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:49:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 10:50:57 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.



But, but.........it's an excuse to bitch about the Patriot Act, the facts be damned. Get with the program, man.

We agree twice in 2 days. It's the apocalypse!



Run for the hills, run for the hills.................oh wait, that won't do any good.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:54:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.



But, but.........it's an excuse to bitch about the Patriot Act, the facts be damned. Get with the program, man.

We agree twice in 2 days. It's the apocalypse!



Run for the hills, run for the hills.................oh wait, that won't do any good.



Damn are you 2 going brokeback… cut it out.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:55:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:20:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By krpind:
"Nun's account frozen under Patriot Act"

No it wasn't.......

It was a mistake and the Bank paid for it with the fees and bad press.

These nuns should change banks instead of calling Congress. The real blame was the Bank, and they just used the excuse of the PA to cover their asses.



But, but.........it's an excuse to bitch about the Patriot Act, the facts be damned. Get with the program, man.

We agree twice in 2 days. It's the apocalypse!



Run for the hills, run for the hills.................oh wait, that won't do any good.



Damn are you 2 going brokeback… cut it out.



Not hardly.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:03:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
I guess we should unfreeze Al Queda's bank accounts on the basis of this one tiny screw up.


Welcome to the American concept of liberty and justice. Let a hundred terrorists free as to not punish one innocent person. I would much rather take my chances fighting the terrorists who want to kill me rather than the terrorists in Washington who wish to enslave me.



Good grief, what paranoid rantings.

Try reading the fucking article.



No shit larry, you can cut the dramatics in this thread with a knife.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:07:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:17:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 3:33:27 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Racial slur removed. --tbk1>
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:36:49 PM EDT

22 checks were returned with an ominous but baffling stamp: "Refer to Maker."

Now that's ironic!


$10 says Wachovia bought a small local bank and the Sisters were skating by on the ID thing because of the good graces of the former owner.

After living through the problems the incompetent IT department at Wachovia caused three different times when a bank I used was bought-out, I would guess that it wasn't a problem with the small bank. Wachovia probably just didn't convert the old account information over correctly. Despite having a lot of experience in buying and absorbing small banks, they are still completely incompetent at the process. The morons at Wachovia still send-out 1099's for the entire amount I have in two different IRA's there. They were opened years ago at two different banks Wachovia bought. I could understand the mistake of putting just the interest on the 1099, but every single year they put the entire amount on it. A relative of mine is a VP there, and she says the problem, like most of their problems, is that their IT department didn't import the data correctly and doesn't have enough competent people to fix problems like these. She said that since most of them don't speak English well enough to understand what they're told to do, these problems are never going to get fixed.z
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:48:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
You ask anyone here that went to catholic school if nuns are terrorists!

ETA It being nuns makes it look worse than it is. They had a bank account holder that didn't have their personal information on file. That is a suspicious thing.



Probable Sinn Fein bag lady.

Warning to captainpooby- rejoin the herd or be crushed!



Captainpooby won't be crushed. The new methodology involves roping, banding, and an application of a good running brand.

wganz

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:22:32 PM EDT
______________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by AZ_Redneck:
Maybe the Feds got confused and thought THESE were the virgins allah was planning on using for his incoming and they wanted to put a stop to it while they were still on earth..

Thanks to our hero's, he's got to be running out of virgins by now and looking elsewhere for a fresh supply!

____________________________________________________________________________

If Allah is denied stock for his incoming then Feds the were justified in their actions. Otherwise, the bank fucked up and blamed the Feds for their blunder.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:47:31 PM EDT
Once againn bullshit. What agency...? Load of crap.
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