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Posted: 2/8/2006 6:12:17 AM EDT

I bought a welder off of a buddy and dont have a 220 volt hook up in my shop. How can I tell if the breaker box in my shop is a 220 or 110? I know nothing about this stuff so excuse my ignorance.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:14:37 AM EDT
Two 110 connected will give you the 220. You have to marry two 110's together...They guys at the store can help you. You need new wiring and maybe a sub panel...

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:18:01 AM EDT
Two 110's simply won't add up to 220.

If you look inside the box, you should see two black clad wires coming in to the main breaker. This is considered a "two pole" breaker. To verify, hook a multi meter up to each leg coming in and you should have 240V.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:22:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 80FL:
Two 110's simply won't add up to 220.

If you look inside the box, you should see two black clad wires coming in to the main breaker. This is considered a "two pole" breaker. To verify, hook a multi meter up to each leg coming in and you should have 240V.



True.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:46:23 AM EDT

Im gonna try that. The guy I bought the house from built this big shop, its pretty nice and I just cant imagine building a shop like that and just wiring it for 110volt.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:56:39 AM EDT
If you have 2 hots coming in to feed the panel in your shot you will have 240V. I have seen people call me stating that they hooked their equipment up 240V when in fact they went off 2 breakers on the same leg in the panel! LOL Make sure you use a proper breaker and don't just use 2 single pole breakers.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:29:20 AM EDT
well its got 2 black wires and a green and a white. I went out to the pole outside. there is a little seperate box off of the main one that is run to the shop. it said 240 volt inside. so i guess it is 240 volt! Ill try and get the right fuse.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:34:59 AM EDT
How many amps do you need to run your welder?, mig machines run crappy without enough amps.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:37:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:40:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:31:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
well its got 2 black wires and a green and a white. I went out to the pole outside. there is a little seperate box off of the main one that is run to the shop. it said 240 volt inside. so i guess it is 240 volt! Ill try and get the right fuse.[/quote]

Stop right there.

Either get a book and figure out what you're looking at, what you need to power your welder (amps, voltage and connector) and what it's going to take to get there or get an electrician.

Electricity isn't rocket science, but it will KILL YOU deader than a hammer if you don't know what you're doing. Guess what? You don't know what you're doing.

Good luck.

Merlin
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:08:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Merlin:
Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
well its got 2 black wires and a green and a white. I went out to the pole outside. there is a little seperate box off of the main one that is run to the shop. it said 240 volt inside. so i guess it is 240 volt! Ill try and get the right fuse.[/quote]

Stop right there.

Either get a book and figure out what you're looking at, what you need to power your welder (amps, voltage and connector) and what it's going to take to get there or get an electrician.

Electricity isn't rocket science, but it will KILL YOU deader than a hammer if you don't know what you're doing. Guess what? You don't know what you're doing.

Good luck.

Merlin




+1

electricity isn't something ya should fool around with if you have no clue what you are doing.


Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:27:53 AM EDT
+1 --- a 240V shock is sufficient to throw you 6-10 feet (due to gross muscle contractions) through the air, and if it doesn't stop your heart immediately, it can cause damage/heart rhythm alterations that will lead to death later.

Avoid working around exposed contact points (fuse threads, exposed ends of wires, etc.) in any energized circuits carrying this much voltage. If you can denergize the circuit running from your main electrical service to the fuse box in the shop, do so before removing/installing fuses in their sockets. You probably have a fuse for each 120V "leg" or phase of any 240V circuit, so pulling a full-current draw to your body from a single fuse may not be as dangerous as taking a full 240V, but it's best to play it safe.

If you do make contact with an ergergized circuit carying 240V (or more), ALWAYS go to a hospital emergency room to be checked out. You may feel OK, only to drop dead a couple of days later.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tazman2k:
+1 --- a 240V shock is sufficient to throw you 6-10 feet (due to gross muscle contractions) through the air, and if it doesn't stop your heart immediately, it can cause damage/heart rhythm alterations that will lead to death later.

Avoid working around exposed contact points (fuse threads, exposed ends of wires, etc.) in any energized circuits carrying this much voltage. If you can denergize the circuit running from your main electrical service to the fuse box in the shop, do so before removing/installing fuses in their sockets. You probably have a fuse for each 120V "leg" or phase of any 240V circuit, so pulling a full-current draw to your body from a single fuse may not be as dangerous as taking a full 240V, but it's best to play it safe.

If you do make contact with an ergergized circuit carying 240V (or more), ALWAYS go to a hospital emergency room to be checked out. You may feel OK, only to drop dead a couple of days later.



I have to disagree with this to some degree. I have contacted live up to live 277 volts AC and have never been "thrown" back. Any AC voltage is too much to pass through your body, and I too would recommend seeking medical attention if you receive a 240 volt shock. Since it seems that the original poster is in over his head I would suggest that you contact a live electrician and have him look at what you have and possibly change out your fuse panel to breakers. If you were local I would personally come over to look at what you have going on. If you are at all in doubt in your abilities to safely work with electricity then please leave it to us professionals.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:04:06 AM EDT
________________________________________________________________________________
Posted by dalesimpson:
I have to disagree with this to some degree. I have contacted live up to live 277 volts AC and have never been "thrown" back.
________________________________________________________________________________


I will also confess to having contacted 240V and never experiencing this (even though I said 240V was sufficient to "throw" you, because it can generate gross muscle contractions). The individuals who have told me they had been "thrown" were all crouching down when they contacted the energized circuit, and likely they actually "jumped" back involuntarily. I apologize for using imprecise language [discipline, more discipline, tazman], and thanks for correcting any misinformation I might have conveyed. h.gif
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:17:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tazman2k:
________________________________________________________________________________
Posted by dalesimpson:
I have to disagree with this to some degree. I have contacted live up to live 277 volts AC and have never been "thrown" back.
________________________________________________________________________________


I will also confess to having contacted 240V and never experiencing this (even though I said 240V was sufficient to "throw" you, because it can generate gross muscle contractions). The individuals who have told me they had been "thrown" were all crouching down when they contacted the energized circuit, and likely they actually "jumped" back involuntarily. I apologize for using imprecise language [discipline, more discipline, tazman], and thanks for correcting any misinformation I might have conveyed.



No offense intended tazman. I too have gone on my ass when i contacted 277 volts , but I wasn't thrown is all.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:45:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 11:51:27 AM EDT by paul_the_welder]

well I went to lowes got all the stuff. hooked up the welder. It turns on , but isn't welding right. I probably hooked it up wrong. I can hear the welder just humming along. hmmmmm now its hard to know if the welder is messed up or me. I'm thinking probably me. I went out to the sub box and turned off all the power to the shop so i wouldent get to find out if 240 volt throws you or not.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:57:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:01:08 PM EDT
If you were qualified to do this work you would be called paul the electrician, but you are not. If you promise to get an electrician over to look at what you have I promise to hire a welder to do my next welding job. Deal???
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:10:46 PM EDT

ughhhhh , I know I should....
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:23:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 12:38:23 PM EDT by JB69]

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
ughhhhh , I know I should....




Damn RIGHT you should !


I AM an electrician and what you posted worries the crap out of me !


You're seriously tempting fate my friend, as you obviously are in WAY over your head, with the contents of that last post.





Don't be stupid..... Find a real electrician.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:38:36 PM EDT


come on now, if I called someone to do everything that I dident know how to do I would be one broke bastard. ya gots to learn somehow.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:43:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 12:47:56 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:45:20 PM EDT
With any luck only your shop will burn down, and you won't be hurt or killed.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:47:31 PM EDT
Go to the library and get a basic wiring book. It's idiot proof.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:49:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:

come on now, if I called someone to do everything that I dident know how to do I would be one broke bastard. ya gots to learn somehow.



Come on nuthin !

Do you even realize that if you wired it incorrectly, your welder could actually short-circuit, burst into flames, and burn your fucking house/shop/etc to the ground ???


Large electrical equipment does NOT take kindly to fuckups. ESPECIALLY ones that are designed to use high amperages.


Have you ever seen a pad mount transformer burst into flames ? I have..... That's essentially all a welder IS, on a smaller scale......

But have at it..... If you can afford to replace your welder, building, etc. more power to ya.




Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:54:51 PM EDT


HAHA, I knew that would get yall going. I couldent rezist. I quit messing with it for now. But I am not calling some 100$ a hour electrician for 10 min of his time. service charge, minumum of 1 hour no matter how long it takes him. well not until I blow something up atleast.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:06:00 PM EDT
Holy shit! $100/hour. I need to move to Oklahoma. I never charge more than $65/hour for a service call, and if it's something little and only takes me a few minutes I might not even charge you. I figure that sometimes it's better to do a little favor for a guy and hope that he will remember you when he has a big job that needs to be done.

If you could take pics of your setup with the dead front off that would help some.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:10:40 PM EDT
I think tango7 is an electrician on the side of his FF gig, might want to IM him.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:24:38 PM EDT
Another electrician here. Electrical work can kill, get a qualified person. Call your friends, one
of them may know someone. Most guys charge closer to $25/hr plus materials.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:41:57 PM EDT

Most guys charge closer to $25/hr plus materials.


Wow, just Wow.

I don't put the key in the ingnition for less than $75 per hour.

There is not a chance in this world that you can run a business if you only charge $25 for your techs.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:54:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 80FL:

Most guys charge closer to $25/hr plus materials.


Wow, just Wow.

I don't put the key in the ingnition for less than $75 per hour.

There is not a chance in this world that you can run a business if you only charge $25 for your techs.




he's talkin "sidework" with the $25 per hour


that's still pretty low though.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:55:30 PM EDT

25 an hour! that wouldent even fill the tank in an ford f-250 service van!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:03:25 PM EDT
I do side work for friends for $25/hour plus materials and beer.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:05:27 PM EDT

will you be my friend dale?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:40:04 PM EDT

ok my breaker box in the shop is has space for two single poll breakers. two black wires, one green and one white. the two black wires( hot wires) go to each breaker. now my welder has 3 wires. Two power and one green(actually green and yellow twisted together). the breaker box has one bus bar on the top right. now here's my question. the bus bar is only for neutral and ground wires correct???? now running the 220 volt receptacle into the box, the ground wire runs to the bus bar. one power wire runs to the 30amp breaker. where does the other wire go?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:48:19 PM EDT
On a 2 pole breaker both hot wires go to the breaker.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:52:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 2:55:19 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:16:01 PM EDT


Dude ! It's obvious to everyone here that you are in over your head . Call a pro or find a friend that knows what he's doing . There's no shame in asking for help .
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:24:53 PM EDT
dude! no I'm gonna do it.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:47:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:49:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 3:50:27 PM EDT by WILSON]
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:53:29 PM EDT

Its done! the reason it was welding wierd is because it was only getting half the juice it needed. thanks for hte help guys! I was curious if the 240 box would run the welder and the shop lights etc. I tried welding with the lights on it seemed ok.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:57:47 PM EDT
Been lit up with 240 a few times.Not too bad,but won't mind if it doesn't happen again.What hurt was my little old fence charger.Out in a light rain,and swung a gate open to duck under the hot wire on top.Done it a million times beofre.But you know that little button on top of ball caps? There's metal in there.Must have hit the wire stepping under, 'cause when I got up out of the mud and shit,it my whole body hurt and my head felt like someone kicked me full force under the jaw,straight up! (later checked it with one of those little testers-it lit the 4400 V light! Thank God there ain't too many amps.) Now I know why 1,200 lb bulls stay the F away from the hot wire!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:11:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By tazman2k:
+1 --- a 240V shock is sufficient to throw you 6-10 feet (due to gross muscle contractions) through the air, and if it doesn't stop your heart immediately, it can cause damage/heart rhythm alterations that will lead to death later.

Avoid working around exposed contact points (fuse threads, exposed ends of wires, etc.) in any energized circuits carrying this much voltage. If you can denergize the circuit running from your main electrical service to the fuse box in the shop, do so before removing/installing fuses in their sockets. You probably have a fuse for each 120V "leg" or phase of any 240V circuit, so pulling a full-current draw to your body from a single fuse may not be as dangerous as taking a full 240V, but it's best to play it safe.

If you do make contact with an ergergized circuit carying 240V (or more), ALWAYS go to a hospital emergency room to be checked out. You may feel OK, only to drop dead a couple of days later.



I have to disagree with this to some degree. I have contacted live up to live 277 volts AC and have never been "thrown" back. Any AC voltage is too much to pass through your body, and I too would recommend seeking medical attention if you receive a 240 volt shock. Since it seems that the original poster is in over his head I would suggest that you contact a live electrician and have him look at what you have and possibly change out your fuse panel to breakers. If you were local I would personally come over to look at what you have going on. If you are at all in doubt in your abilities to safely work with electricity then please leave it to us professionals.



I've never been shocked in my life, but my father once flipped off the 200 amp breaker? and was changing out the breaker for his arc welder, next thing I know, I see him by a table 10 feet away on his back. I never figured that one out.

Call an electrician.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:43:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
ughhhhh , I know I should....




Damn RIGHT you should !


I AM an electrician and what you posted worries the crap out of me !


You're seriously tempting fate my friend, as you obviously are in WAY over your head, with the contents of that last post everyone of your posts.





Don't be stupid..... Find a real electrician.



Fixed it for you!

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:01:17 AM EDT
Tinkering in the panel...

Just wow.
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