Things around the world have been heating up in the last year or so at a very rapid rate. That's not to say September 11th didn't change things, but in the last at least 6 months or so there seems to be a ratcheting up of tensions among nations. The tension is religious, financial, and natural resource related just to name a few. Hamas, Iran, North Korea, and the recent riots and defacing of internet websites are just some of the more recent happenings.

Understanding that the rumblings of WWII went on for years what are your thoughts now? Do you believe these are the rumblings of another world war? Certainly an argument can be made that the next world war will be faught in many ways, financially being at the top of the list. Do you believe we are past the point of no return and world war in one fashion or another is inevitable or do you believe things will settle down over time?

Thanks in advance.

Revelations

It seems like things are brewing faster now.  I wish more people would take their heads out of the sand.

I honestly don't think so.

For a "World War" to take place, there have to be major players involved.

Countries like Iran, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan, etc - are not any kind of a match for a superpower.  Even Pakistan and India are not a serious threat to anyone but each other(although India is supposedly been beefing up their fleet), and conflicts with countries like this woudl be localized.

China is in a bulding phase, as they transition from Communism to some kind of hybrid capitalism with a strong central government (a little like Nazi Germany), has no real fleet, and no interest in a large scale conflict with anyone, least of all the U.S.   Russia is broke, and also has no interest in a war with anyone right now.  While Putin is turning the country into his personal kingdom, I don't see any real imperialistic interest, and the attention seems mostly turned inwards.  

Sure, Russia and China has treaties and trade interests with lots of different places, but there are never going to go to WAR over these things.


Maybe in 20 years, we might see some development that could lead to another global war, but I cannot imagine it in the near future.



(Just my opinion - worth what you paid for it)

Nuke them preemptively now and avoid the trouble later.

Since it's already going on my thoughts are that I need to hurry and get my AR built and then buy more mags and ammo!

Another world war is coming, but I don't know whether or not the situation currently brewing with Iran, Isreal and the US has the potential to come to that point. As DK-Prof said, you need major world powers to have a world war. I guess it's possible that if the US invaded Iran then the Russkies might become involved. But what we have going on now does not constitute a world war.

When in doubt buy more Mags, Ammo and Guns. It wont help you survive a Nuclear Blast but it will make you feel more secure

You watch, there'll be a nuke from Iran blown up in Iraq to kill Americans and Iraqi's. Syria will help out and both will do some kind of attack on Israel.

This will bring America into fighting mode and either Russia and China will back Iran against the US or they both will move back out of the fight. Either way, Iran setting a nuke off anywere will bring a sharp nuke response from the US or Israel. Israel's going to be in for the fight for their lives.

Revolations or not, Iran getting a bomb is NOT good. My bet is bible prophesy is happening. I got that feeling when we invaded Iraq.

Let's pray that does not happen.  If not stand by things are getting worse.


Max

I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse.

Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing.

revelations was coded 'symbology' to talk about events at the time it was written, not our times.

But people sure do love to cite it to bolster their opinions that it's all going to end.

Quoted: revelations was coded 'symbology' to talk about events at the time it was written, not our times. But people sure do love to cite it to bolster their opinions that it's all going to end.

What do you base that statement on?

I think it's possible, primarily because I think the barrier to entry of a world war is lower today than it was for WWII.   It was simply impossible for one country to bomb another in WWII without a lot of forward preparations.   Today it can be accomplished with a flight originating and terminating at Whiteman AFB, or with  deranged individual(s) taking control of an airliner(s).    

On a level closer to home, our troops are stationed around the world courtesy of the USAF and USN.   Their troops are stationed within the U.S., thanks to an open/porous border.  

ETA - Yay!  I didn't say the word "Muslim"!    Wait...doh!

[US Ambassador]  Of course, if we fail, we'll all be killed.  The world will go to war. [/US Ambassador]

[Capt Jerome]  Gentlemen, I should hope that if we all are killed, the world WOULD go to war! [/Capt Jerome]

-The Wind and The Lion

10-15 years is a good estimate, especially assuming that China keeps expanding it's economy and is unable to successfully integrate in to the world economy and/or lose it's communist leadership and/or changes it's mind about expanding back into what they think are the historic limits of the Chinese empires.

Russia isn't going to support China, they are both going to be competing for the smae things.

I'ld bet on a Russia -China War before a World War. Unfortunately we get all the fallout blown over here.

Quoted: [US Ambassador]  Of course, if we fail, we'll all be killed.  The world will go to war. [/US Ambassador] [Capt Jerome]  Gentlemen, I should hope that if we all are killed, the world WOULD go to war! [/Capt Jerome] -The Wind and The Lion

I love that movie

Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing.

Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life.

- The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming)
- The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers
- The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy)
- The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull)
- Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass)
- The middle east becoming nuclear powers.
- The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history

I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight.

So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally.

Chinas not arming up for little old Taiwan, that said war with China is at least 5 years away they don't want to play yet.  Short term strikes on Iran and Syria but no invasion.  N.Korea depends on a multitude of circumstances???

Quoted: Quoted: I agree with DK Prof but do also think 10-15 years is very possible and that it will be precipitated by an economic collapse. Anyone who thinks we are currently in the lead up to Revelations style TEOTWAWKI is just deluding themselves with money grubbing, TV evangelist busllshit.  Might all start tomorrow I suppose but there is NOTHING going on today that would lead me to believe there is any inevitable "End of Days" ongoing. Ok, let's see...for the first time in history these things in bible revelation have come to life. - The ability to control buying and selling...Vera-chip and moving to a cashless society (the infastructure isn't there to control everyone, but that's coming) - The ability to track people's movements and their everyday lifes...GPS, Vera-chip, OnStar and computers - The Global economy (at some point the anti-christ will take over the global economy) - The ability to destroy 1/3 of the worlds population in a nuke attack (fire burning the eyes and tongues out of the skull) - Israel becoming a nation state in 1948 (This generation shall not pass before the return of the Jesus, who knows how long God's "generation" is, but THIS generation shall not pass) - The middle east becoming nuclear powers. - The middle east is NOW able to become REAL players in history I could go on, but THESE ARE the end times my friend. We may not have the infastructure to fullfil bible prophesy to completion, but we DO have the technology to do what is said and we ARE in the end times right now. Live will be really interesting from now on. Things are NOT going to just get better. They will only get worse and worse on the world stage. Your "personal" life might be "ok", but things are getting worse with no end in sight. So enjoy your life, live for today, make your peace with God and pray for the future, because, even though there is prophesy, it's up to us and it can be changed. Think globally and act locally.

You're playing pretty fast an loose with Bible prophecy there bud.
I know what it will take for me to believe the the "end is near" and nothing you have mentioned above is enough.  Maybe you should forget all the fire and brimstone bullshit they feed you before they pass the collection plate and reread your Bible with an open mind, and an understanding of geological history. No offense.

I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914.

I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us.

Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death.

I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death?

One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have.

20 years. Don't forget, Social Security runs in the red in less than 15 years. There isn't any surplus, it's all spent.
They will have to cut spending somewhere to cover it. Military spending will be the easiest  place to start cutting.
We will be forced to end many of our oversea's venture's and protect only our most vital intrests.
No more protecting Israel, S. Korea, Japan, etc.
China will then take Taiwan.

That's why I say we should keep burning Arab oil, save our's for when we can't afford an oversea's fleet.

Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have.

Nor are the Chinese.
I don't think we have the stomach for it all either. In all honesty though, WWIII might be one to sit out.  Aisa is going to get the shit kicked out of it and the death toll will be huge. Going to make WWII look like a picnic.  Besides the ME, you have China, India and Pakistan, Korea, Taiwan and it's anybody's guess what Russia will do.  They are really in a tight spot given their geography. I suppose they will hold out to see what everyone else does.  
And I am pretty damn certain Europe won't do shit until it is too late.  We may not even be major players in it all as I really think our economy is going to get hammered.  Going to get interesting. IMO the global balance of power will take a major shift.

I'll tell you this much though, I will almost guarantee nukes will be used in a somewhat limited fashion.  Some strategic, mostly tactial battlefield nukes.

As for the islamofascists they are actively infiltrating the US and Europe as we speak. Not enough to take us but enough to hurt us when the time comes.

I'll be glad to be here and not in Asia when it comes down to it and we will still be able to control much of the Sea, unless some politician elected by moonbats is able to dismantle that also.

Quoted: I fear we are edging closer to the abyss with each passing day.  The World seems to become a bit more nuts as we appear to be emulating our ancestors from 1914. I think the line will be crossed and we and Israel will be attacked with nuclear weapons after a major change in administration.  When that happens, and I think it will within the next twenty years, our nation will be perceived to be fractured and weak as we constantly squabble among ourselves over petty political differences.  Hell, millions of liberal moonbats are already advocating the fall of their own coutnry right now so they can try to rebuild it in their socialist image.  Once we are viewed as weak, it is only a matter of time before our opportunistic enemies collaborate to attack us. Hitler and the Japanese were both convinced of our weakness and that we had no spine for a fight to the death. I wonder if we are REALLY willing to suck it up...gird up our loins and really fight to the death? One thing is for sure:  The Islamofacists aren't going to quit...and they aren't going away.  We are in for a long war...and they aren't the only enemies we have.

Makes those years you and I spent in the Navy seem like it was all for nuthin'.

Anybody remember the Cold War?

It will truly be the Forgotten War in 20 years.

I wonder what all the trolls who monitor this forum for dupes 24x7 will do when the power goes out??

 I wonder if when they are in public and someone starts telling a joke, they keep saying DUPE out loud..

  Oh wait... that would be making the assumption that they actually leave the house..

my bad...

 (0_o) Dan

I think/hope/pray that it's near. The EU is a good indicator, but until Israel is surrounded/attacked it isn't imminent.  

Having said that, I also have this nagging little fact in my head that people have been preaching "The end is near!", and were absolutely positive of it, for 2,000 years now.  

I say we'll know within 10 years. If it isn't happening by then, I'm most likely way off base.

Quoted: Revelations

What's ancient political satire got to do with this?

It is highly likely that there will be another World War.  Sooner or later it will happen.

As WWII came to an end, the victorious Allies tried to setup a system that would keep the peace.  They had seen the Versailles Treaty that had kept the peace after WWI fail and they were determined to do better.

So there was no single, overriding treaty at the end of WWII.  It was thought to be better to have several different, smaller treaties and organizations than one big one.  That way, if one failed, the others might still work, and the peace could still be kept.

The Bretton Woods agreement was supposed to set all of the currencies around the world at fixed exchange rates to the American dollar, and the dollar was to be set at a fixed exchange rate to gold.  That way, the whold system would be kept stable, and huge curency movements, like those in Germany in the early 1920s, could be avoided.

Germany was to be divided into 4 parts, with America, Great Britain, France, and the Soviet Union keeping any new threat from emerging in Central Europe.  Japan was to be completly disarmed, and not to have the legal right to wage war ever again thanks to the MacArthur constitution.

The United Nations would be used as a permanent discussion forum to keep the lines of communication open between all of the Great Powers.  And the nuclear monopoly of the United States would be the "big stick" that would keep everyone in line.  The lesser powers, such as the Arab states, China, Korea, and such could be amost ignored.

Unfortunately, it began to fail almost immediately.

Germany had 3 of it's 4 zones reunite within 5 years of the end of WWII, and  East Germany reunited with the rest after the end of the Cold War.  Bretton Woods failed on August 15, 1971 when Nixon removed the United States from the gold standard.  On October 15, 1973 the OPEC nations radically increased the sale price of oil and proved for the first time that they could not be ignored by the Great Powers.

If we fast forward to the present, we see that the only things left from the peace system set up at the end of WWII is the UN and a disarmed Japan.  China is emerging as a Great Power in it's own right, Germany is beginning to assert itself in the foreign policy arena, Korea is an armed camp, and the United States is far from the only country that possesses nuclear weapons.  Even Japan is now thinking of going nuclear.  And the UN has proven to be compentent at ending wars, but not at preventing them.

We face a completely new challenge to the peace in the early 21st Century, and the system to keep the peace is woefully inadaquate to the situation.  A radical upgrade to the system is needed, and will almost certainly not happen.  All previous radical upgrades to the system, such as Westphalia, Ultrech, Vienna, and Versailles all happened after Great Power wars, not before.  For these reasons, WWIII is almost certain to occur in the long run.  The results will be catastrophic for all invloved.

Quoted: I think/hope/pray that it's near.

 WTF?  God save us from the rapture freaks.

Quoted: Things around the world have been heating up in the last year or so at a very rapid rate. That's not to say September 11th didn't change things, but in the last at least 6 months or so there seems to be a ratcheting up of tensions among nations. The tension is religious, financial, and natural resource related just to name a few. Hamas, Iran, North Korea, and the recent riots and defacing of internet websites are just some of the more recent happenings. Understanding that the rumblings of WWII went on for years what are your thoughts now? Do you believe these are the rumblings of another world war? Certainly an argument can be made that the next world war will be faught in many ways, financially being at the top of the list. Do you believe we are past the point of no return and world war in one fashion or another is inevitable or do you believe things will settle down over time? Thanks in advance.

I hope so - it's time to stamp out Islam once and for all.

Quoted: What do you base that statement on?

Because St. John of Patmos was a pissed-off apostle, exiled to a cave on a remote island by the Romans. There he wrote a scathing criticism of Roman government and the idolatry of the Emperor.

eta: Do some research. The Book of Revelations  is as much about the future as the quatrains of Nostradamus.

DanSharp..that's the best post on AR-15 I've seen all day!!

Quoted: Quoted: I think/hope/pray that it's near.    WTF?  God save us from the rapture freaks.

Rapture freak.

Quoted: Revelations

+1

tag for tommorow when im not dog tired

Quoted: especially assuming that China keeps expanding it's economy and is unable to successfully integrate in to the world economy .

China is expanding into the world economy through trading of goods.  The U.S. is currently holding

a $400 billion trade deficit with the Chinese thanks mainly to our communist friends at Hwy.71B

in Bentonville, Arkansas (Wal-Mart)  and to Slick Willy Clinton and his agreement for China’s entry

into the World Trade Organization.  We will be suffering from his presidency for many years to

come, in more ways than one.

I've seen many warning signs that a major storm is brewing...

This year I have decided that I would take steps to insure my family has a fighting chance for survival, my plan
Disney world  






On a serious note, I have taking major steps to insure food, water, and protection will not be an after thought

Nope, no world wars (unless you consider a global fight against terrorism a world war -- I don't)

Conflicts will become increasingly regional.

And if the sh** hits the fan in the Middle East/Iran, no way do I believe Russia or China are going to run to their aid.  They understand they will lose more than they gain.  Only the US possesses the ability to project massive military power a half-world away (neither Russia or China have a credible navy.)

We're in the state we're in partly because of the way this administration does things. This BS in Iraq/Afghanistan has been halfhearted. Drag it out for years and give the Libs plenty of ammo on a daily basis. I've never seen such incompetence. The pentagon/WH should have NEVER declared cease-fire over there that early. And the minute IED's and suicide bombers started up, they should have resumed hostilities in a friggin massive way. Your a suicide bomber and we ID you, your family dies, your whole neighborhood is killed and your village is burned to the ground. Reporters should be strictly off-limits over there also. Everyone except military out of the war zone until this crap is cleared up. And foreign correspondents also or they'll be treated as the enemy. Screw the rules of war. What we're doing now is like death by a thousand little cuts by CNN, NBC and Newsweek.

Jesus Christmas, do you honestly think China would fight a war like this? They wouldn't give two sh1ts what the U.N. or some congressional inquiry/commission says. We AND OUR ADMINISTRATION are way too soft. Not to mention, the longer you drag this sh1t out, the more U.S. casualties you have and the greater the deficit skyrockets. We're fighting a politically correct war, tiptoeing and dancing around everyone and hoping not to offend anyone. We're getting a reputation as a bunch of pansies and that's hard to shake and will hurt us later on immensely.  I want this thing (Iraq and Afghanistan) dealt with in the harshest possible way (excluding nukes) and then for us to get the hell out. Bush 41 had it right - overwhelming force and an exit strategy. That doesn't mean announcing a withdrawal date, it just means having a plan not to bleed out of your ass for years on end while inflicting the maximum pain on the enemy. I'm very upset with our neo-con. I want a ruthless SOB who's gonna end this quickly and as bloody as possible.  Send the message to the Arab world, we're not to be phucked with.  We're doing anything but that right now.  

Another one is an inevitability.

Edited to say: This time we'll lose.

Quoted: I honestly don't think so. For a "World War" to take place, there have to be major players involved. Countries like Iran, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan, etc - are not any kind of a match for a superpower.  Even Pakistan and India are not a serious threat to anyone but each other(although India is supposedly been beefing up their fleet), and conflicts with countries like this woudl be localized. China is in a bulding phase, as they transition from Communism to some kind of hybrid capitalism with a strong central government (a little like Nazi Germany), has no real fleet, and no interest in a large scale conflict with anyone, least of all the U.S.   Russia is broke, and also has no interest in a war with anyone right now.  While Putin is turning the country into his personal kingdom, I don't see any real imperialistic interest, and the attention seems mostly turned inwards.   Sure, Russia and China has treaties and trade interests with lots of different places, but there are never going to go to WAR over these things. Maybe in 20 years, we might see some development that could lead to another global war, but I cannot imagine it in the near future. (Just my opinion - worth what you paid for it)

It's precisely those small to medium countries which form the triggers.  World war I wasn't started in the "Great Powers", but they were sucked into it by "alliances."  World war II in Europe started in a relatively <---emphasis small way.  Yes, Germany was marching, but the actual, that is, "official" beginning of the war was Britain declaring war on Germany over Czechoslovakia.  That's kind of specious, as the big powers were jus poised for it.  You, and this thread, arer talking about getting it started, not what it grew into.  In the Pacific in WWII, true the war began between two Empires, Britain and JApan, but it was ofver relatively small things such as Singapore, and other areas of resources.   Our involvement was as a result of a meeting between Roosevelt and Churchill aboard HMS Prince of Wales, in August 1941, in which we agreed to come in to back Britain against the Japanese, the only detail remaining was the precise circumstance.  When the Japanese found out about it, well...the rest is history.  

But to the extent that some historians would agree that WWII was a direct result of WWI, and others call it a continuation after a 20 year cease fire, and I agree, I would say that the small nations in 1914 actually brought the whole conflagration about.   The real problem, especially if we talk morally, is the big nations WANTED it for many other reasons, and only were waiting for an excuse.  I see plenty of excuses brewing out there now, and lots of reasons, whether honorable or not.

I guess Washington (no permanent alliances) and Jefferson (avoid foreign entanglements) knew what they were talking about.  Unfortunately, we've got ourselves too far into the spaghetti bowl to get out now.

Quoted: Another one is an inevitability. Edited to say: This time we'll lose.

Unfortunately it very well may depend on who gangs up against whom - the coalitions.

I wish our leaders were more literate and had read Thucydides "The Peloponnesian War".  Thucydides wrote it as education because, as he says, there is no doubt this will be repeated in the future.  In addition, the outcome of that war showed that even when one wins, they can lose.  The coalitions formed to fight each other left the nations in such a state which allowed Rome to conquer them 200 years later.

And, it all started over some stupid island, and was expanded by entanglng alliances.

Our generations time has come.  We MUST do what we MUST.  We will win.

My thoughts?

Let's just get it on, whip their asses, get the suffering done, and get it over with already so we can have real peace again......

Quoted: Quoted: What do you base that statement on? Because St. John of Patmos was a pissed-off apostle, exiled to a cave on a remote island by the Romans. There he wrote a scathing criticism of Roman government and the idolatry of the Emperor. eta: Do some research. The Book of Revelations  is as much about the future as the quatrains of Nostradamus.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking it back up and typing it out.

The plain truth is that the wording of revelations is meant and does matcth the time in which it was written. There are many people, however, who aren't happy unless they believe the world will end before they do, so they latch on to whatever seems to prove that (revelations, nuclear war, environmental doom and gloom, etc)

There shall be war, and rumors of war.

I don't think that this is the end times yet... I think things have to get worse... much, much worse, before I'll believe we're in the end times.

This could be the very beginning of a long, difficult slide to the end though.

I would say war is likely with only Iran, N. Korea, or ( in the distant future) China.

Quoted: I would say war is likely with only Iran, N. Korea, or ( in the distant future) China.

"only" he says...

40 pages




twice

I just hope they are laying in a good stockpile of supplies. We'll have to fight with what we have on hand.