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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:28:04 AM EDT
WOW. That's all I can say after watching that video of the officer ordering "Elio Carion" to get up, then gunning him down like an animal. Normally, I've always been somewhat conservative in proclaiming a cop did wrong, but it couldn't be more obvious that the officer was ordering him to get up, then just point blank shot him!
If you're not familiar with the situation, this stems from the "perp" Elio, who is in the army and on leave, driving recklessly or something along those lines. He possibly fled, then was pulled over, ordered out of his car and told to get on the ground. The cop starts telling him to get up, but before doing so, he tells the cop, "I'm military, you have to fucking believe me." A second later, he slowly starts to rise and is shot, POINT BLANK after COMPLYING with the officer! Rarely am I shocked, but I'm actually shocked and sickened that this cop not only attempted to murder him for no good reason, but knew he was a military man while doing so. They better charge this animal for attempted murder. 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:30:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Dupe- ther's like a zillion pages on this already....
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:33:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, I think almost everyone agrees the video makes the cop look really bad. Some people are waiting for the cop side of the story before making final judgment, but the video is compelling. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:38:45 AM EDT
[#3]
You just watch TODAY too huh. I'm just glad that the cop wasn't white, and by that I mean the "racist cop" crap as the motivator gets old (applying the standard that only white people can be racist). But the Deputy has some serious explaining to do. He is definatley f-ed up as a cop. I hope he didn't actually shoot the guy thinking he could get away with it, because that just tarnishes the profession that much more.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:39:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Cop's side was spoken through his father - "I felt threatened." What kind of bullshit is that????
Oh yeah, I tried to find that thread, but couldn't. Anyone have the link? I wasn't sure if the video was released today or not. Sorry if its a dupe. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:41:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Yup, just saw it today for the first time. With the exception of the Superbowl, Lost and 24, I rarely flip the tv on. Not much that's worthy of watching. I usually get my news online and didn't see any videos regarding this earlier. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:41:41 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:46:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Obviously, there are both sides being represented here.
The people who have really looked at it think the cop did bad. (My opinion) And the cops, who know people who have been in situations like this, where the cop has been cleared. For the most part, they think the situation was bad, but they are waiting for more evidence. As normal, it got pretty hot. The big thing is that is sucks for that serviceman. FWIW, when I saw it on TV, someone had enhanced the sound, and you could hear the cop say get up, then he shot him. The cop then said something about getting up, when the guy with the videocamera stated plainly, "You told him to get up" I think it's a bad shoot, probably brought on by adrenalin. TXL |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:46:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Figures....at page 31, its WAY off topic now! Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:47:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Three shots fired? If he was that panicky, he should have called for backup. In fact, he should have done that from the very beginning. Funny thing is that the video taker is now in custody for a warrant! Why is it that the video takers are always perps themselves?? 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 4:33:52 AM EDT
[#10]
because the cops dont want the civvies gathering evidence against them.. i keep a recorder with me at all times. its amazing how much less cocky/arogent they get when they find out there on mic/camera.. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:04:16 AM EDT
[#11]
huh? Anybody got more news on this? |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:11:09 AM EDT
[#12]
He had an outstanding out-of-state warrant for assault/agg assault, when popped up when he weny in to chck his INS status. Iy may explain his flight. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:24:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Is there a link to the video anywhere in that huge thread?
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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:25:59 AM EDT
[#14]
How many pages for this thread?
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:41:38 PM EDT
[#15]
One 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:43:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Already covered somewhere in the 31 pages of this thread.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:47:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Big help that was Now, how about a link to the video 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:47:44 PM EDT
[#18]
He's not the 1st one..........
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:49:21 PM EDT
[#19]
 Figures, doesn't it?So what's the word on the driver? He's the one who is really at fault in all this. None of this would've happened if he didn't attempt to flee at high speed, in a Corvette, with a USAF security guard in the passenger seat, then wreck, then fled on foot, thus leaving his passenger to get shot by a PO'ed JBT. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:50:58 PM EDT
[#20]
+1 |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:54:27 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't know, but I just found it on Ogrish: VIDEO LINK WEB PAGE LINK Perp Cop: "get up, get up" Victim/Soldier: "i'm going to get up." BANG BANG Perp Cop: SHOTS FIRED, SHOTS FIRED Vic: OWWWWWWWWWWW OWWWWWWWW Perp Cop: Shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up That's the best of my ability to transcribe it for ya'll! Attempted Murder should be the charge. This cop had NO RIGHT to fire. On the Today show, they had the video with enhanced video and sound (brighter and audio was clearer to their conversation) and its VERY obvious that the cop either: A) Ordered him to stand up as evidence that the vic was "attempting to flee" for an autopsy OR B) Trying to provoke the vic into doing something, which failed. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:59:38 PM EDT
[#22]
can anyone really say they can determine anything from that video, i couldn't see shit?
Has anyone seen a better copy? |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 2:59:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Here is a link with better audio and a transcript: Link
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:01:12 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:03:24 PM EDT
[#25]
You disagree? Obviously you didn't see the video of the victim on the ground, then complying with the PO, only to be shot upon compliance. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:06:18 PM EDT
[#26]
No, I totally agree with you... I'm just pissed that it happened - glad it was put on tape - and I'm wondering what other damage this cop has done to others... I bet this guy is going to get let off easily for what happened... |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:07:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Ummm, ok Corky. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:09:14 PM EDT
[#28]
I'd tend to doubt it. If it were ONE shot, maybe. But three shots fired shows a clear intent to eliminate a thread and not an AD. I'd be SHOCKED if this didn't become a federal civil rights case with the cop being indicted by the Feds. The FBI is now handling the investigation, so there will be no local gov interference.
I'm just glad the guy will be ok. Even happier that he'll become a millionaire. Sucks that he had to go to Iraq, to then come home and have a homicidal sheriff try to kill him. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:09:26 PM EDT
[#29]
From what i just seen i think that asshole needs to be shot himself.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:10:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Ouch. Name calling. Got something relevant to the facts that you'd like to share officer? Didn't think so. Carry on. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:19:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Not for folks such as yourself. Scream and hollar at the top of your lungs, I give no shit! 
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:27:26 PM EDT
[#32]
What threat did the man possibly pose to the officer? He said he was about to get up, as per the deputy's orders, only to be shot!
Cop needs to do 10-15, and I'm feeling leniant. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:31:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Bad Cop
No Donut |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:42:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Still attacking me, yet you have nothing to say about the facts of the case. I'd also like you to point out where I'm "yelling." Using caps on TWO WORDS is hardly yelling. Its making a point. Would you like to address the facts of the incident now or do you have nothing relevant to state? Do you believe this Sheriff is worthy of defending? Go for it, I'd like to see you make the case considering the video evidence. If you believe that if you were put in his same place looking through his eyes, that you would have done the same thing....you should reevaluate your career choice. PS. Its not called yelling, its called righteous indignation at a crime committed by a PO. And no, I'm not a cop basher, I'm quite the opposite. However, I'm disgusted by what I saw. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:44:37 PM EDT
[#35]
I've heard that the department in question has some....issues.
As in they burst into a 90 year old person's house, almost give them a heart attack, sent another guy to the hospital when they pointed out the distress, and nobody knows what the raid was for. They've since started intimidating those involved. Sounds like a bad department from what I've read. I'll try and dig up a link. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:48:29 PM EDT
[#36]
It's holler. I'm just glad I got to contribute something useful to this discussion as well |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 3:49:36 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 2/7/2006 4:48:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Saw it on TV last night. Couldn't believe what I saw so replayed it several times on my DVR. Hope the victim recovers and he deserves to be compensated for the attempted murder. Thank God they had it on video otherwise the PO would or could add another notch or two to his gun.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 4:51:34 PM EDT
[#39]
The driver never fled on foot and was in the driver's seat when his friend was shot. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 4:57:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Damn you and those pesky facts! |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 5:00:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Well for somebody several days late to the party trying to rev up something that is old news to probably everybody else around here your whining is not all that relevant either. If you really want to stir things up why don't you mention that the shootee is now nowhere to be found. Apparently several agencies involved can't find him to interview him. (Maybe he went back to the base - His CSM told him that unless he's dead he better not be late getting back. Not dead so he's reporting back on time?) The big loser in this was the idiot driver. Take your buddy the SP along on a high speed pursuit. He may walk and it was his stupidity that started the chain of events. He's damn lucky, if the shootee had died he could have been looking at a Felony Murder charge (In CA if somebody dies during the commission of a felony, then the perps can be charged with murder. Doesn't matter why the deceased died or whose fault. If somebody dies, that's all they need.) |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:06:03 PM EDT
[#42]
What would the predicate felony be? Fleeing police? Speeding? Being shot by the police doesn't count in felony murder to the best of my knowledge. The perp in the felony murder has to have caused the killing. In this case, the victim wasn't injured by the crash, but after the pursuit ended and the perp cop shot him. The shootee (victim) is in the hospital. He's easily found and the FBI has interviewed him according to a CNN report an hour or two ago. He was shot three times, he's not walking away from this too quickly. And maybe I'm a bit late on this, but I didn't realize that the video had been released days ago. I thought the video was new news. They seemed to think so on the morning news when I created this thread. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:19:28 PM EDT
[#43]
It might, depending on the jurisdiction Not state specific or suitable for legal citation but this wiki article gives a decent overview of felony murder, generally. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:49:33 PM EDT
[#44]
That's taken from that web page. Under proximate causation, I'd tend to doubt the felony murder theory (assuming there was the predicate felony of course!) could function. Basically, you have a surrender decision by the corvette riders. Upon surrender, the original felony is concluded and the perpetrators of the felony have surrendered themselves to the law. Its similar to when you have a burglar who is confronted by a home owner and "retreats" from the house. They've deescalated the situation and if the home owner shoots, its a bad shooting. (Yeah right!) But under the law, it applies. Same situation here, surrender = conclusion of crime. They've placed themselves in the hands of the PoPo executioner-wanna-be and the police takes aim and fires. (Basically allows the police to kill a perp, then set up the other one for the death penalty by the death they themselves caused - imagine that?!) However, if one of the perps made a sudden move or lunged, then the felony murder theory might then bare its ugly face again. Proximate cause! But I digress.... |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Welcome to last week.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:11:30 PM EDT
[#46]
That is a pretty sad statement. Cheers |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:15:43 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:18:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Whatever. Different thread, same exact comments as the original |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:18:38 PM EDT
[#49]
I didn't say that this situation would qualify as felony murder in the event of death, I merely pointed out that felony murder can, in fact, be predicated on someone "being shot by the police." That was the reason I highlighted the text that I did. I am not familiar with CAs felony murder rules and so am not in a position to argue whether or not a death in this situation could serve as the basis of a felony murder charge against some other indiviudal. I feel that I should add that I don't know any of the facts of the case and therefore can't even say that a crime occurred, much less a felony. |
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Posted: 2/7/2006 7:41:07 PM EDT
[#50]
High speed pursuits can be felonys here. That's why I said "could have been" stuck that qualifier in. It would have been a wobbler, depends on number of vehicle code violations, how much he endangered others, etc.
The drivers lucky the passenger was in no condition to beat the living crap out of him for potentially screwing things up good for him with the AF. |
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