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Posted: 2/6/2006 8:57:03 AM EDT
So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:58:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 8:59:58 AM EDT by triburst1]
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:58:46 AM EDT
Just load the damn gun. They aren't very good clubs.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:00:31 AM EDT
I do if I expect to be sitting in a position where i can't "relocate" the weapon or if I'm in/out of the car a lot. I don't trust trigger safeties in a lot of situations.

An empty gun is a useless gun, true. But if it shoots me in the spine it isn't much good, either.

You just have to plan ahead.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:00:39 AM EDT
Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously, are you going to reach into your junk, pull the gun, chamber a round before whatever caused this response kills you? This also isn't taking degradation of fine motor skills into consideration when you add the stress of life or death!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:07 AM EDT
This made me re-think carrying unchambered.

21 ft rule
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?



that part is most definately true... so I've heard...
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:25 AM EDT
I dont carry Mostly cuz I'll only be in TN for like 8 more months. It does me no good while deployed, and when I get back, I go to the Nazi state of Illinois. I'm not spending 120 bucks to carry for 8 months.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 4:23:33 AM EDT by MTUSA]

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



+1 or else send back the Permit. You are not worthy. (for real)
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:39 AM EDT
Who doesn't?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:02:03 AM EDT
Throw away the Smartcarry. Get a pocket holster, chamber round, insert gun into said pocket holster, put into pocket.

The PM9 is so damn small you can hide it anywhere.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:02:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:04:44 AM EDT
By having it "Un-chambered" is'nt that like Assult with a dead weapon ?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:04:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:06:35 AM EDT by GUNGUY1911]

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.

Nonsense! With the correct carry accessories, you can carry pretty much ANY handgun concealed IWB. I'll jump over to another forum and find you a link!
www.gandrtactical.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2720
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:06:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:06:37 AM EDT by BangStick1]
The criminals already have the element of surprise in their favor, why give them more of an advantage?? LOCK-N-LOAD
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:06:20 AM EDT
Lumpy should be here soon to tell you what he thinks your idea.

Look at it this way. If you get into a situation that will justify you pulling your CCW there is a very good chance that you WILL NOT have time to chamber the round. Most "experts" will tell you that you need to be capable of drawing and firing your CCW weapon i 1.5 seconds. Adding a major step, such as chambering the round will make it impossible to accomplish this task.


SBG
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:07:35 AM EDT
Sounds like an expensive hammer with no live ammo loaded.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:09:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



+1
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:09:32 AM EDT
Never.

All my handguns are of modern design and short of a bizarre mechanical failure or abject stupidity on my part they will never fire unless I pull the trigger.

In many defensive situations you're going to have to respond nearly instanteously to the threat. Chambering a round under those circumstances is simply not something I'm willing to deal with.

Identify, draw, front sight, press. Wash, rinse, repeat until the threat stops. Adding additional complex (under high stress) steps is a fools trade for a miniscule amount of perceived (not actual) safety.

My 0.02.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:09:42 AM EDT
I live in TX also I'm 6'3" 265 lbs and carry a full sized 1911 in a Milt Sparks IWB and wear jeans and T-Shirts all the time. It's possible you just gotta be aware of you clothing and situations. You just gotta determine what is more important to you.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:13:01 AM EDT
I don't and wouldn't carry mine unloaded Don't make good sense too me!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:13:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:20:46 AM EDT by triburst1]

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.



Come on dude, anyone can hide a PM9 is a proper holster.

This will help a great deal.


It is a very stable holster design extremely comfortable. It is only a couple millimeters thicker than the gun so it is as easy to conceal as having the gun tucked into your waistband.


The guy offers a money back guarantee, so you've got nothing to lose.


threatsolutions.com/holsterindex.html

Just give it a try, and I promise you will thank me later.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:13:20 AM EDT
Get comfortable with the design of your weapons systems, or stop carrying them.


Seriously.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:13:36 AM EDT
5'6", 150#, I carry a BHP in an IWB holster with an untucked shirt. A gun with an empty chamber is useless.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:14:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:
Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously



Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:16:01 AM EDT
It seems you have your CHL, but no idea how to properly carry. Go get yourself some training. Lots of good classes here in TX.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:19:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:27:20 AM EDT by GUNGUY1911]

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:
Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously



Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.

Go ahead and stuff your pistol(unloaded of course) down the front of your pants, tuck in your shirt, and then try to draw, chamber and present your pistol. Then to simulate stress, give yourself time limits, say 2.5 seconds to do this in. Report back on your findings. Or don't, whatever, just trying to help!

As another excercise, repeat these steps with one hand only. Then with weak hand only.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:19:57 AM EDT


Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.



I'm the same size, and I can hide a 1911 under a t-shirt that is too small. ANd my short stocky friend can hide an N-frame.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:20:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?


Not really,depends on who you are and not me. If and when your attacked,be sure to ask the BG if it's ok to chamber a round before he attacks you.
Carry a round chambered or don't carry at all.In the time it takes you to clear your holster,rack the slide, get a sight picture the BG will have already killed you.
If your being attacked , the nerves will already be hyped up enough to cause your muscle memory to have a hard time operating,having to rack the slide will be one more thing for you to deal with and could quite possibly cost you ( or someone else's ) your/their life.
I'd add getting some training into your budget.
Also get a real holster.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:21:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:
Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously



Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.



What if you run into an armed thug? DO you think he will wait while you play with your gun to hurt or kill you? If your affraid to carry loaded then you have no trust in your weapon and/or training. I would change tactics if I were you and also get more training if needed.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:23:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.


So what,I'd rather be a little warm with an extra shirt on than be unarmed.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:23:34 AM EDT
Too further add, Smart Carry is really only designed for the times when you absolutely cannot carry in a more conventional way. It gives up some time for concealability. By carrying unchambered with Smart Carry, you are giving up even more time, time that you WILL need if presented with a situation. If you are in a situation that you know "well" beforehand is going to deteriorate in to drawing down, then you probably have time to get out of the area as well.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:24:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Come on dude, anyone can hide a PM9 is a proper holster.

This will help a great deal.
i34.photobucket.com/albums/d141/chriswoodall/kahr.jpg



True, but then, an AD could still mean a titanium hip but that's better than a eunuch Might give it a try anyways, thanks.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:24:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:28:44 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:25:40 AM EDT
Ain't much more useless than an unloaded gun.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:29:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:
Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously



Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.


After you get some training ( your permit course doesn't count ) , or before doesn't matter to me, ask the instructor about presentation and the added unchambered round.
You admit to having the gun unchambered is a disadvantage,why do you want to give the BG more advantage than he already has?
Get some training man. PLEASE!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:30:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:32:46 AM EDT by cheaptrickfan]
I'm not sure how long you've been carrying, but if I were to guess, I would say you're fairly new. I could be wrong. Nevertheless, when I first started carrying I stuck with a S&W 442 in a pocket holster - with only 4 rounds, the chamber under the hammer was empty. I was concerned with AD (no, not ED!!). After a couple of years of concealed carry with different pistols/revolvers, everthing from Bersa to Kel-Tec, Taurus, S&W, Makarov, etc., my comfort level and proficiency improved. I think you might just need more time and experience. I've carried a 1911 C&L under a t-shirt in Florida during 105 degree temps. Sure, I'm sweating, but it isn't the pistol making me sweat - its the heat/humidity.

ETA: if I made an improper assumption, I apologize and did not mean to embarrass you.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:34:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:40:57 AM EDT by photoman]
1. People who are mandated to by thier agency,job, whatever.

2. People who lack confidance in thier ability to handle thier firearms, and their firearme itself in some cases.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:44:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.



I have the same build. I conceal a larger gun IWB with just a t-shirt all the time.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:51:53 AM EDT
Cocked and locked is the only way to carry IMHO.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:53:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Never.

All my handguns are of modern design and short of a bizarre mechanical failure or abject stupidity on my part they will never fire unless I pull the trigger.

In many defensive situations you're going to have to respond nearly instanteously to the threat. Chambering a round under those circumstances is simply not something I'm willing to deal with.

Identify, draw, front sight, press. Wash, rinse, repeat until the threat stops. Adding additional complex (under high stress) steps is a fools trade for a miniscule amount of perceived (not actual) safety.

My 0.02.



Not sure what modern design has to do with anything







Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber
2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene
2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:53:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CFII:
Throw away the Smartcarry. Get a pocket holster, chamber round, insert gun into said pocket holster, put into pocket.

The PM9 is so damn small you can hide it anywhere.



I carry an MK9 most times. Yes, you're right.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:55:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photokirk:
5'6", 150#, I carry a BHP in an IWB holster with an untucked shirt. A gun with an empty chamber is useless.



What kind of holster do you use for the BHP? Other than my Kahr, my BHP is the other carry gun.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:03:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Originally Posted By Airwolf:




Not sure what modern design has to do with anything

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun1.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun2.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/pants.jpg

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber
2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene
2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

As far as the incident you are alluding to, it is also taught by some to remove any kind of drawstrings from garments that you wear to conceal a weapon with, for exactly this reason. Therefore, this too could be called a "training issue". The fact of the matter is, you came here to ask the opinion of others, and do not seem to like what you are hearing. Some of us carry EVERYDAY, on and off the job, so if you want to resort to callin g me or anyone else gung-ho or whatever, that's your perogative. You asked a question, you were given MANY answers, you didn't like them so you counter attack. So I ask you, why did you bother asking opinions if you didn't want the answers?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:06:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Never.

All my handguns are of modern design and short of a bizarre mechanical failure or abject stupidity on my part they will never fire unless I pull the trigger.

In many defensive situations you're going to have to respond nearly instanteously to the threat. Chambering a round under those circumstances is simply not something I'm willing to deal with.

Identify, draw, front sight, press. Wash, rinse, repeat until the threat stops. Adding additional complex (under high stress) steps is a fools trade for a miniscule amount of perceived (not actual) safety.

My 0.02.



Not sure what modern design has to do with anything

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun1.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun2.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/pants.jpg

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber
2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene
2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.



You really seem to be assuming a whole lot. The scenario you think you will encounter will be completely opposite of what will happen. You are pointing fingers at people who are prepared because they would rather have something than need it. Which is why you are carrying isn't it? You carry because the need might arise to defend yourself to the death. If you want to play around with the chances of you surviving by giving away valuable seconds, by all means, we will not stop you. Your comments seem to be centered around how afraid you are of the gun. That is not meant as an insult just advice.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:06:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 10:07:14 AM EDT by mcnielsen]

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Not sure what modern design has to do with anything

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun1.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun2.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/pants.jpg




What is that a picture of? you know holsters are designed to wrap around the trigger guard so they don't just "go bang" in your pants, right?




Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber shouldn't engage in this scenario. Your car is your best weapon.

2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene again, should be running the other way unless it is a loved one you are protecting.

3) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here Yes, you are at a disadvantage here.

I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.



Sounds like you may need to re-think carrying at all. Whatever you decide, be safe and get more training.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:07:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?



Firstly, I have carried concealed semi-automatic pistols for years, and never has one discharged on me during daily carry.

Secondly, in an actual self defense scenario you might well find yourself in a position where you CANNOT chamber around, thus making your weapon absolutely useless. Proceeding as if you will be able to chamber a round if trouble starts is a pretty good way to get your butt in a sling. Ever tried manually chambering a round in an automatic pistol in a hurry? Care to guess how many malfunctions I have seen induced that way?

If you are afraid of a chambered pistol going off, the better solution is to carry a revolver which IS perfectly safe, and which will still allow you to have a fully functional weapon at the ready.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:08:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Ditch the gun panties, get a holster, and pipe up.



I'm fairly thin (6', 170lbs), live in a warm client, I can't really hide a IWB holster with a t-shirt.



Yes you can. With the right shirt, belt, and holster, you can conceal a big 1911.

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:10:06 AM EDT
Smartcarry is for places like the anti-gun office which won't allow concealed carry - with a smaller pistol, it's the shiznit, as there is no way anyone will accidently bump/touch/feel it there (under normal circumstances). That being said, I carried my glock there with one in the pipe, and I didn't feel like I was endangering myself. YMMV
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:11:47 AM EDT
I used to carry a Glock unchambered in a groin carry when I first got my CHL.

As I got more practice, I switched to a H&K compact USP with a round chambered. It is all about your comfort level.
I also realized most people are not trying to check if you are wearing a gun. Now I sometimes even carry outside my waistband with a long t-shirt. No one notices, not even other CCW's.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:14:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Not sure what modern design has to do with anything

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun1.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/gun2.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/shield13/pants.jpg

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber
2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene
2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.



Sh*t does not just "happen" with firearms. Sh*ht "happening" with firearms usually refers to someone doing something incredibly stupid. There is a REASON you reholster SLOW and with DELIBERATE attention: to avoid doing anything damnably stupid.

The odds of a weapon firing on its own inside a holster are probably far lower than the odds of you being hit by lightning.
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