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Posted: 2/5/2006 2:31:38 PM EDT

She is at the reception (or wake or whatever) right now, following the memorial service - just spoke to her on the phone (she went on a beer run, because they ran out).

Guy was in his 40s, a successful lawyer (spent the last twenty years working for an organization that provides legal services to the poor). He jumped off a bridge - highway overpass outside Nashville - a couple of days ago.

I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state. Long-term mental problems? Financial difficulty? Something bad, like gambling or drugs? I know it's none of my business, but somehow I just cannot stop wondering about it. I hope it's not financial trouble, because he probably just screwed his wife out of the life insurance money - if you're going to kill yourself, why not make it look like an accident?


I guess I often think of suicide as something that depressed teenagers, or terminally ill patients, choose - not something that adults with reasonably successful careers do.



Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:33:23 PM EDT
Just be glad he didn't use a gun.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
She is at the reception (or wake or whatever) right now, following the memorial service - just spoke to her on the phone (she went on a beer run, because they ran out).

Guy was in his 40s, a successful lawyer (spent the last twenty years working for an organization that provides legal services to the poor). He jumped off a bridge - highway overpass outside Nashville - a couple of days ago.

I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state. Long-term mental problems? Financial difficulty? Something bad, like gambling or drugs? I know it's none of my business, but somehow I just cannot stop wondering about it. I hope it's not financial trouble, because he probably just screwed his wife out of the life insurance money - if you're going to kill yourself, why not make it look like an accident?


I guess I often think of suicide as something that depressed teenagers, or terminally ill patients, choose - not something that adults with reasonably successful careers do.




You never know what's going inside someone's head. It's usually worse on the family than if they were murdered. That's the worst part of it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:34:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:49:22 PM EDT by LonePathfinder]
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:35:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....





Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:36:14 PM EDT
My condolences to his family as well. It is shocking. I wonder why? An affair? Drugs, embezzling, got mixed up with the wrong crowd?

It would be hard to think that severe of a depression would happen suddenly but maybe a reaction to an everyday medication? There's got to be an answer somewhere.

Patty
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:36:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....









You should have posted this in the Team forum...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:38:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:49:07 PM EDT by LonePathfinder]
...the guy killed himself because he was depressed. Its that simple. There are a million and one things that people can become fixated on and allow themselves to wallow in self pity. I don't much pay attention or question "why" anymore. Some people can't handle life.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:39:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:39:44 PM EDT by Gunplay]
.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:39:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....



jackass
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:48:51 PM EDT by LonePathfinder]
.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:46:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By Gunplay:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....



jackass



Come on. People kill themselves all the time

Did GD suddenly become populated with a bunch of ninnies?



june, 2005?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:47:50 PM EDT
we are not ninnies or jackasses but you seem to be both. good for you.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:49:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
we are not ninnies or jackasses but you seem to be both. good for you.



All you ninnies happy now?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:53:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:53:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By Gunplay:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....



jackass



Come on. People kill themselves all the time

Did GD suddenly become populated with a bunch of ninnies?



I haven't seen any ninnies yet, maybe they are behind all the jackasses.

I do death investigations these days. Suicides are plentiful. Guns predominate (that may simply be a regional thing. Guns are accepted here.)

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:55:41 PM EDT
Life insurance policies often have a 2 year exclusion for suicide.

After 2 years, a suicide pays out just like an accident.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:56:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I do death investigations these days. Suicides are plentiful. Guns predominate (that may simply be a regional thing. Guns are accepted here.)

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".



I'm having a hard time grasping this. Is it not depressing behavior to believe that you would be better off dead? How are you defining being depressed? Seems to me if you think you need to end your life, that in itself is depressing! True wacko's and Darwin awards not withstanding.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:57:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Life insurance policies often have a 2 year exclusion for suicide.

After 2 years, a suicide pays out just like an accident.




Really - I didn't know that! I guess that's good news for his wife, in the midst of all this.

I guess it's like an urban legend. I remember talking to my wife about it, and we both thought that was the case, but weren't actually sure.

Thanks for the correction.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:57:38 PM EDT
No suspected murder conspiracy? Perhaps from some pro bono work someone didnt want him doing?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:00:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sp0rk:
No suspected murder conspiracy? Perhaps from some pro bono work someone didnt want him doing?




Apparently there were numerous witnesses that saw him jump off the overpass. (For locals in Nashville, I believe it was the Natches Trace parkway overpass where it hits Hwy 100.)

We don't know if there was a note, but I think there probably was.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:00:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state.




People are more screwed up that we generally know. For all you know that sweet charming wife was sucking off a crack dealer every day while hubby was at work. For all you know that really nice guy has been sexually abusing a troop of cub scouts for 10 years. Nobody knows what goes on in anothers heart or mind.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
She is at the reception (or wake or whatever) right now, following the memorial service - just spoke to her on the phone (she went on a beer run, because they ran out).

Guy was in his 40s, a successful lawyer (spent the last twenty years working for an organization that provides legal services to the poor). He jumped off a bridge - highway overpass outside Nashville - a couple of days ago.

I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state. Long-term mental problems? Financial difficulty? Something bad, like gambling or drugs? I know it's none of my business, but somehow I just cannot stop wondering about it. I hope it's not financial trouble, because he probably just screwed his wife out of the life insurance money - if you're going to kill yourself, why not make it look like an accident?


I guess I often think of suicide as something that depressed teenagers, or terminally ill patients, choose - not something that adults with reasonably successful careers do.







Actually, if you make it past a certain time period many life insurance policies will pay on suicide. The amount may be less than full, but what they are attempting to stop is someone who chooses to acquire a policy specifically to get the cash.

No sane person can understand why an otherwise happy & healthy person would ahve the desire to end their life. My condoloences to you and your wife.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:03:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state.




People are more screwed up that we generally know. For all you know that sweet charming wife was sucking off a crack dealer every day while hubby was at work. For all you know that really nice guy has been sexually abusing a troop of cub scouts for 10 years. Nobody knows what goes on in anothers heart or mind.



I know - it could be ANYTHING. Perhaps the guy has been struggling with mental illness his whole life, or perhaps he squanderd all their savings on a huge cocaine habit.


Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:04:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Life insurance policies often have a 2 year exclusion for suicide.

After 2 years, a suicide pays out just like an accident.




Really - I didn't know that! I guess that's good news for his wife, in the midst of all this.

I guess it's like an urban legend. I remember talking to my wife about it, and we both thought that was the case, but weren't actually sure.

Thanks for the correction.



My dad grew up on a farm out in ohio and knew several guys who killed themselves so the family could save the farm by paying off debts with the insurance payment.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:05:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
I do death investigations these days. Suicides are plentiful. Guns predominate (that may simply be a regional thing. Guns are accepted here.)

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".



I'm having a hard time grasping this. Is it not depressing behavior to believe that you would be better off dead? How are you defining being depressed? Seems to me if you think you need to end your life, that in itself is depressing! True wacko's and Darwin awards not withstanding.



Since it appears you have a hard time grasping a lot of things, I'm not going to bother. I suggest you google it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:06:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Life insurance policies often have a 2 year exclusion for suicide.

After 2 years, a suicide pays out just like an accident.




Interesting, didnt know
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:09:25 PM EDT
Depression is a real bitch. Lexapro is your friend...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:29:27 PM EDT
I have to tell you all that I do not like to let people know about this.

An employee once asked me about this, and within a week he killed himself. I often regret that conversation. His wife did get the $300,000.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:39:48 PM EDT
Depression takes many forms. A lot of people with depression don't show the classic symptoms. It's hard to recognize sometimes. I have it and my closest friends don't have a clue. One of my brothers has it also. I've been to that "horrible mental place" and I don't like it, so I work hard at staying away.

Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it is possible. Maybe the real story will come out over time.

A guy at work shot himself early last month. I posted the story here. It bothered me more because I had sold the gun to another guy at work who loaned it to the suicide. I wondered then how tortured his mind must have been.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:40:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 3:49:39 PM EDT by junker46]

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Since it appears you have a hard time grasping a lot of things, I'm not going to bother. I suggest you google it.



What's the problem here? Seem a few weeks ago this site couldn't make enough jokes concerning a guy killed by a chipper.

Interesting to note, this guy was a successful lawyer, probably with all the trappings (I'm just guessing here) but I know people who's life are walking trains wrecks or are marked by shear drudgery and manage to chug through. I wonder what the stats are (no, I not going to google it).
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:43:24 PM EDT
maybe he was murdered by a former client - made it look like a suicide
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:48:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
She is at the reception (or wake or whatever) right now, following the memorial service - just spoke to her on the phone (she went on a beer run, because they ran out).

Guy was in his 40s, a successful lawyer (spent the last twenty years working for an organization that provides legal services to the poor). He jumped off a bridge - highway overpass outside Nashville - a couple of days ago.

I've met the guy several times. Really nice guy, with a sweet and charming wife. We had a party in Nashville in the Fall, and I saw them there, and my wife saw them at a Christmas party. While I feel terrible for the wife, and great sympathy for the guy (and what a horrible mental place he must have been in to convince himself that suicide was a good solution) - I also cannot help but wonder WHY he ended up in that state. Long-term mental problems? Financial difficulty? Something bad, like gambling or drugs? I know it's none of my business, but somehow I just cannot stop wondering about it. I hope it's not financial trouble, because he probably just screwed his wife out of the life insurance money - if you're going to kill yourself, why not make it look like an accident?


I guess I often think of suicide as something that depressed teenagers, or terminally ill patients, choose - not something that adults with reasonably successful careers do.






His family and yours will be in our prayers.

As to the issue of Suicide quality of life can be a big factor. It does not appear a factor in this case.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:48:54 PM EDT
It may sound cold but you really leave behind a hell of a mess that your family has to deal with. And it goes way beyond the cleanup. Had to go through this last year when my father-in-law did the deed. There was no talk about "I'm going to----". Life was normal, if you can say that after being diagnosed with lung cancer 2 days earlier. He conducted his affairs "normally", left no note, just did it.
It was surprizing to be told that those people who are bent on suicide do it, and tell no one. As far as I know there are no signs to tell you what they are thinking.
The act of telling someone is the cry for help because they really don't want to do it. Same with those that swallow pills etc. The guy that swallows a bullet, jumps in front of a train or off a overpass really means to do it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:59:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".



That covers the method, but what did she state as her reason?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:37:15 PM EDT
DK, sorry to hear about your wife's friend.

LonePathfinder...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:55:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:07:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:



What is up with these newbie morons? Does anyone have any Raid?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:10:06 PM EDT
I feel sorry for his family.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:56:08 PM EDT
sometimes its the people around them who are to demanding and eventually it will wear a person down and then they see suicide as a way to be free.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:52:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:



What is up with these newbie morons? Does anyone have any Raid?



now be nice!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:08:27 AM EDT
DK, please let your wife's friend's wife know that Camy and I are praying for her. I hate stories like this, and they seem plentiful If she is not a spiritual person, let her know we are sending good thoughts of comfort her way. Sorry man.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:27:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GoGop:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".



That covers the method, but what did she state as her reason?



In a nutshell, she was tired of being Bi-Polar, tired of all the doctor visits and tired of the voices in her head, so she was giving "Robert" what he wanted.

"Robert" was one of the voices that had been trying to kill her since she was 5. 9 attempts in all.

She suicided about 45 minutes after her weekly psych appointment. Really makes you wonder what the doctor said.

She was a 4.0 grade average in an incredibly difficult field of study, well liked by her friends, and roommates, NOT stupid or an outcast by any means.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:59:25 AM EDT
It makes me wonder too.

Especially the story of the brilliant student, these people who are smarter, wealthier, living a far better life than me yet they choose to end it.

And then you see the people in super poverty who use every inch of themselves every day to just stay alive.

And then you think about the families left behind, and if they blame themselves...

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:15:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
I have to tell you all that I do not like to let people know about this.

An employee once asked me about this, and within a week he killed himself. I often regret that conversation. His wife did get the $300,000.



It wasn't your fault- how were you to know?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:26:10 AM EDT
I'm sorry to hear of your wife's friends Prof.

Many years ago my best friend's brother-in law took his life. His wife, baby and mother-in law was in the living room when he went downstairs and swallowed his .22 rifle. All because he was down about having more bills than money. Funny thing is there's always a better way out of that situation. I havn't seen his wife in a few years but their daughter must be a high school jr. or senior now.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:26:12 AM EDT
An overpass jump??? Yikes.

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:45:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By GoGop:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

It's a serious mistake to tie suicide to depression. My latest was a 21 year old female co-ed. Left a 27 page note better than many term papers. She wrote it to help her roommates understand. She chose her method off of a suicide website, "satanservice.com" Her computer was still logged on and she had stapled a printout of her chosen method, funeral home, and payment check to a yellow note stating "Dear Police".



That covers the method, but what did she state as her reason?



In a nutshell, she was tired of being Bi-Polar, tired of all the doctor visits and tired of the voices in her head, so she was giving "Robert" what he wanted.

"Robert" was one of the voices that had been trying to kill her since she was 5. 9 attempts in all.

She suicided about 45 minutes after her weekly psych appointment. Really makes you wonder what the doctor said.

She was a 4.0 grade average in an incredibly difficult field of study, well liked by her friends, and roommates, NOT stupid or an outcast by any means.



That sounds more like schizophrenia than bi-polar disorder. Either way very sad and unfortunate.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:46:57 AM EDT

Thanks everyone.

My wife said the memorial was nice, as was the event afterwards. Apparently, hundreds of people were there, including the mayor of Nashville, local politicians, judges, etc. He apparently had made a career of helping people, not just the poor and was very respected and universally liked. Go figure.



Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
An overpass jump??? Yikes.



That was my reaction too.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:17:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunplay:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
No pie from his wife....



jackass


Why call LonePathfinder a name? I worry about many of the guys I work with. For all but one of them, lack of sex with their wife is the major reason they're depressed. Every single day at work I hear the complaints. That very well could be the reason. When a man can't live without something, but isn't willing to break their marital vows to get it, something has to give.

I agree with Johninaustin about the fact that suicides and depressions don't always go hand in hand. Sometimes logical people come to the logical conclusion that they're better off dead. I know several guys that killed themselves that were in that position. If you don't have anything to look forward to, then it is really hard to justify continuing on. I know that, because that's how I feel. It isn't in anyway depression. It's the simple fact that I have nothing to live for. None of my children lived. None of my relatives have younger children which spending time with them would be something to look forward to. None of my siblings or their children are still alive. My wife doesn't even remember my name after I think she had another stroke in November. I just have nothing to look forward to.

DK_Prof, it's interesting that you mentioned he had a "career of helping people." Having people always ask you for something will take its toll. One of the nicest guys I've ever known was an Anglican priest that, while he didn't kill himself, he intentionally did not get treatment for a heart attack that killed him. I never once heard him ask for something for himself. The man would, and I've seen him do it, give you the last dollar out of his pocket if he thought you needed it. I strongly believe that three decades of having people ask of him wore him down.z
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:22:14 AM EDT
There is far more mental illness out there than most people realize. Most are just barely holding it all together in public and after dealing with so many of them they are relatively easy to spot now. Bottom line though, is that there are a lot. I don't know if it is a result of modern society or if it has always been this way. I suspect the former.



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