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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:02:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 10:05:03 PM EDT by GUNGUY1911]
Cleaning up the kitchen tonight, and realized I have almost as much $$'s in kitchen cutlery as I do working knives. I don't even use most of these.


ETA: The 2 boning knives and 1 sandwich knife are in the dish pan waiting to be washed. These things are almost as addictive as guns! Everytime I see a disply, I try to buy something?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:03:59 PM EDT
I like them

I want a set like that. Damn, you should put them to use.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:13:47 PM EDT
It has been my experience that for 98% of all kitchen work, you need a good vegetable knife, and a good paring knife.

BUT, the right tool for the right job and all that. Nice knives!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:14:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
I like them

I want a set like that. Damn, you should put them to use.

It's actually way too many, I really only use the Santoku, the 4 1/2 & 6" cooks, the boning knives, bread knife, and parers. The Big Chef and slicer rarely get used. I just wish they didn't put that cheap assed sticker on the handles!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:16:22 PM EDT
Im building a set out of ones I get at thrift stores
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:20:33 PM EDT
Anybody know if Mundial is any good? Made in Brazil, my mom got a set for Christmas.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:25:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 10:27:56 PM EDT by GUNGUY1911]
Mundial are very nice, but as with Henckels, and Wusthof, department store buyers have gotten the companies to cheapen their products for everyday Jane, so you have to watch what you buy and where. I believe your mother's are part of their "Future" collection, and are high quality forged.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:28:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Florg:
Anybody know if Mundial is any good? Made in Brazil, my mom got a set for Christmas.
www.mundialusa.com/images/products/4100-24.jpg



Yes they are fairly solid blades. The Mundial I have is about 5 years old (utility knife) and has been worked hard. I like my Wustohfs-and even some of the cheap-o Forschners hold up pretty decently ($20- 30 boning knives last forever if you don't let the wrong people near them). Stay away from the ceramic though.

--VT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:32:17 PM EDT
Nice collection. I'm building up a small collection of Wusthof and Messermeister knives and I definitely agree that it's an addicting thing, but there's nothing like preparing food with a quality knife.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:34:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Engineer:
Nice collection. I'm building up a small collection of Wusthof and Messermeister knives and I definitely agree that it's an addicting thing, but there's nothing like preparing food with a quality knife.

No doubt about preparation, it is sooo much easier with good knives. I am meeting with the F. Dick Knives rep next week, so hopefully I'll be starting a new collection!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:46:42 PM EDT
I have a set of Wustdolf Tri-dent knives, they are great knives that served me well for the past 30 years.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:59:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:02:44 PM EDT by NwG]
Brother and sister are both chefs...
I get a different Global for every birthday...

Nice steel

www.metrokitchen.com/item/GL-GS-35/

The most useful knive I have ever had....
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:53:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 6:53:52 AM EDT by GUNGUY1911]
Globals look too weird for me, they are nice, I just don't like the look.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:02:39 AM EDT
My main kitchen knife is a K-BAR I rescued at a funshow for $5.00. But it came polished with no handle, the tang was removed and a bolt brazed onto the back of the blade. I had a flat piece of steel stock brazed on and whittled out a hollow maple handle, glued it on and installer two brass cross pins. Looks oh so good now. And there isn't a thing I can't cut with it, frozen or not.

I have some cheapy bread knife and a long bladed knife with course serrations of unknown heritage, but I rarely use them, especially the bread knife. And then I have a set of six cheap steak knives.

Just I'm just not into fancy knives.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:03:33 AM EDT
I collect knives, so naturally having crap in the kitchen just won't do. Quality is expensive, but... trying to eat anyplace other than my home, has me fighting the urge to pull the Microtech from my pocket.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:05:52 AM EDT
I have a set of Boker Ceramic kitchen knives myself. I love them.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:09:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
I have a set of Boker Ceramic kitchen knives myself. I love them.

I had a Kyocera ceramic, and my ex DROPPED it! One beautiful knife, in a million dazzling pieces.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:10:28 AM EDT
I collect kitchen knives also. I am currently building out the Henckels Twin-Cuisine line. I currently have the 8-inch chef, 8-inch carver, 8-inch bread, 7-inch Santoku, 5.5-inch boning, 4-inch paring and a 3-inch paring. Very nice knives.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:12:00 AM EDT
My best kitchen knife says "Stainless Taiwan". It's survived college life, single life, and marriage life. It flexes enough not to break, and it's serrated to cut through through everything I need to it to cut. I don't even know what brand it is.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:12:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:14:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
I have a set of Boker Ceramic kitchen knives myself. I love them.

I had a Kyocera ceramic, and my ex DROPPED it! One beautiful knife, in a million dazzling pieces.


Knives that break if they get dropped? How pointless.

I agree to a point, but they are extremely sharp and thin, and cut like you wouldn't believe! Just don't drop them!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:17:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
I have a set of Boker Ceramic kitchen knives myself. I love them.

I had a Kyocera ceramic, and my ex DROPPED it! One beautiful knife, in a million dazzling pieces.


Knives that break if they get dropped? How pointless.

I agree to a point, but they are extremely sharp and thin, and cut like you wouldn't believe! Just don't drop them!



+1

There is nothing like a good ceramic blade. Extremely sharp. You just have to not be clumsy when handling them.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:18:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
I have a set of Boker Ceramic kitchen knives myself. I love them.

I had a Kyocera ceramic, and my ex DROPPED it! One beautiful knife, in a million dazzling pieces.


Knives that break if they get dropped? How pointless.



Well you are'nt supposed to drop them. Wine and ketchup bottles break if dropped, glasses or coffee mugs will too. And God help your floor tiles if you drop a cast iron skillet!

Ceramic knives have their good points, so does carbon steel, I prefer stainless, even though its arguably the worst choice... you've got to weigh the pros and cons. Also, I don't know about your wives, but I've never known a woman who did'nt leave knives soaking in soapy water, or break shit being careless. I think men tend to be alot more careful with our tools.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
Also, I don't know about your wives, but I've never known a woman who did'nt leave knives soaking in soapy water, or break shit being careless. I think men tend to be alot more careful with our tools.

I wash my knives in VERY hot water, and rarely anything else, and dry them after each use.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:27:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By Engineer:
Nice collection. I'm building up a small collection of Wusthof and Messermeister knives and I definitely agree that it's an addicting thing, but there's nothing like preparing food with a quality knife.

No doubt about preparation, it is sooo much easier with good knives. I am meeting with the F. Dick Knives rep next week, so hopefully I'll be starting a new collection!



I used to have a roll of F Dick cutlery. I had no problems with any of it. Every piece held an edge very well. It was a LOT less expensive than Henkles or Wustoff. That's back when I was a working Chef.

I did have a Wustoff vegitable knife that I used because it 'fit' my hand a bit better for turning shrooms etc..

You'll really like your new Dicks!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:28:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 7:31:58 AM EDT by JH225]
I have a full set of Zwilling/Henckels knives. Top of the line and purchased right at the US headquarters near my job. They are what I would call OK. They lose their edge too fast, I have had one break (replaced under warranty) and now have one with a cracked wood handle (which they don't cover under warranty). I won't be buying them again. Stainless knives just won't hold an edge during hard use.

I will however let everyone in on a couple of little secrets......

1. Spyderco make a line of kitchen knives. Fairly inexpensive and friggin' awesome. I have a Santuko which sees more use than any other knife. Any knifenut will tell you that Spyderco rocks, and the fact that I get dealer pricing makes it even more of a bargain.

2. Search around garage sales and flea markets for Case kitchen knives. NOT the Old Forge (or something like that). I have a bunch of old Case knives that are forged carbon steel blades, hold an incredible edge, and will last forever. The only thing you have to do is keep them oiled (virgin olive oil) or they will get pitting. They stopped making them years ago, but there are plenty out there and can be found for a couple of bucks. Slicers, Carvers, Butchers, Boning, Cleavers, etc.

Also, NEVER put you kitchen knives in a dishwasher. It will take the edge off quicker than you can put one on.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:29:53 AM EDT
No one using Ron Popeils Six Star cutlery knives huh?

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:54:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 8:07:20 AM EDT by MonkeyGrip]
Those really aren't that good. Henkels, Wustoff, Forshner, etc. use a OK steel but still quite soft which means that edge retention is not long. If you hang around the "In the Kitchen" sub-forum of KnifeForums.com, knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ you'll learn that other brands (particularly Japanese) such as Global, MAC, Falkniven, Tojiro DP, even the cheap Old Hickory line of carbon steel knives use harder steels and are superior for edge holding.

Here's a good review of some kitchen knives:
www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=129#conclusion

Here's a good source for good kitchen knives:
www.premiumknives.com/
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:29:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkeyGrip:
Those really aren't that good. Henkels, Wustoff, Forshner, etc. use a OK steel but still quite soft which means that edge retention is not long. If you hang around the "In the Kitchen" sub-forum of KnifeForums.com, knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ you'll learn that other brands (particularly Japanese) such as Global, MAC, Falkniven, Tojiro DP, even the cheap Old Hickory line of carbon steel knives use harder steels and are superior for edge holding.

Here's a good review of some kitchen knives:
www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=129#conclusion

Here's a good source for good kitchen knives:
www.premiumknives.com/

You'll also find that the Japanese knives are 50% more money than Wusthof, Henckels, Forscner, etc. while not exhibiting much in the way of performance improvement. The Old Hickory knives that you can by are not the same as they used to be, and do not hold up to much more than moderate use. I work in the kitchen business, and 80% of commercial kitchens use cheap Dexter Russell knives due to the employee quality. Those who make their living in the kitchen, as in Corporate Chefs from some of the major kitchen equipment manufacturers predominately use Wusthof, Henckels, some Global, but that is pretty much it.b
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 12:05:02 PM EDT by MonkeyGrip]

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By MonkeyGrip:
Those really aren't that good. Henkels, Wustoff, Forshner, etc. use a OK steel but still quite soft which means that edge retention is not long. If you hang around the "In the Kitchen" sub-forum of KnifeForums.com, knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ you'll learn that other brands (particularly Japanese) such as Global, MAC, Falkniven, Tojiro DP, even the cheap Old Hickory line of carbon steel knives use harder steels and are superior for edge holding.

Here's a good review of some kitchen knives:
www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=129#conclusion

Here's a good source for good kitchen knives:
www.premiumknives.com/

You'll also find that the Japanese knives are 50% more money than Wusthof, Henckels, Forscner, etc. while not exhibiting much in the way of performance improvement. The Old Hickory knives that you can by are not the same as they used to be, and do not hold up to much more than moderate use.



Not always true regarding price, and definately not true regarding performance.

Here's a typical Henckels 6" utility knife that many would buy at this "sale" price of $61. The Rockwell C hardness of these are in the low 50s (which is not very good) and performance will relect that. Most people pay way too much for these types of knives simply because they're ignorant.
www.ikitchen2000.com/prod/db/prod.php3?prodNo=H0231020160
Here is a MAC knife for $55 with a 6.5' blade, that has a better design IMO, tests at Rockwell C 60 and will hold an edge much longer and cut circles around that Henckle.
www.premiumknives.com/


My new Old Hickorys hold their edges much better than my Forshners because the non-stainless steel they use in the blades is harder than the soft stainless used by Forshner, Henckels, Wustoff, etc. Granted the Old Hickory are very crudely made and will rust easily if left wet. Still, they cut better.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:59:01 AM EDT
Oooooooh.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:07:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:01:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:16:41 PM EDT by GUNGUY1911]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
I've got a decent quality Henckels set that I bought with a gift card or something, and I keep them sharp (imagine that...). People who come to my house and do anything in the kitchen sometimes comment, "Boy, this knife is really sharp."

As opposed to what?

A dull knife is nothing but a hammer, and a damned inefficient one at that.



To those of you who make your money with a chef's knife in your hand, how do you store/arrange your knives if you're buying various knives individually and not a set that comes with a pre-cut block? Do you have a magnetic rack or some other way of keeping them from banging around and getting damaged, or do you just look at it as normal wear and tear? Thanks.

Jarhead, I use a plastic sleeve called a blade keeper for the knives stored in the drawer, they can be purchased from about any kitchen supply store for a couple bucks each. I also have and 18" knife magnet hung on the wall, or a nylon knife roll for travel.

Here's one type:
www.chefscatalog.com/catalog/productlargeimage.aspx?item=20424&sku=
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:08:15 PM EDT
My prized kitchen possession (and the most expensive piece of cookware I own...until I get all-clad, anyway) is a $100 Shun 8" chef's knife.

My mom managed to bang up the edge by putting it in the dish rack (and putting dishes ON TOP of it).


Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:08:33 PM EDT
I want a decent set of knives but am not sure of whats considered good. I dont want to spend alot though, would you guys recommend the MAC brand as a "best buy"?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:10:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:14:15 PM EDT
I use the blade keepers myself. They work well, but you have to remember to dry your knives off before putting them in. The close contact doesn't let it air-dry and promotes rusting if you're careless.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:15:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:15:44 PM EDT by gaspain]
like if it were AR's would a MAC be considered a Bushy, Colt, or Oly?

What would the ranking go like?

Colt-?
Bushy-?
Armalite-?
DPMS-?
Oly-?
Hesse-?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:
like if it were AR's would a MAC be considered a Bushy, Colt, or Oly?

What would the ranking go like?

Colt-?
Bushy-?
Armalite-?
DPMS-?
Oly-?
Hesse-?

Having no personal or professional experience with them, I cannot say. MonkeyGrip seems to like them, as does Bon Appetite?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:31:47 PM EDT
I tell you what, I'd be walking around with a raging hard-on all day if my woman even knew the difference between a Chef's Knife and a Butter Knife.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:33:30 PM EDT
I have the Japanease Nenox (white Corian) it is heavy & very sharp. It is oriented to the right hand and will tend to cut at an angle. It is not dishwasher safe as are my henkels and woostoffs. The Macs are not dishwasher safe either.

Knife gurus hivemind braintrust: Which is the top stainless dishwasher safe knife??
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 7:51:00 PM EDT by MonkeyGrip]
I would buy kitchen knives piece by piece. A good start is that MAC santoku which is a great knife for that price and will serve most of your cutting needs.

You'll also want a paring knife, and an 8" or 10" chef knife. You should also get a sharpening method. I like the Spyderco Sharpmaker and Lanskey system too. Either will work.

I briefely looked at the Kitchen knife forum over at KnifeForums.com and it looks like the best bargain in a great knife are these Tojori knives, which are a sandwich construction of softer corrosion resistant stainless steel over a core of very hard edge holding carbon steel. I don't have a Tojori, but I have a handmade Japanese santoku knife with this sandwich construction and it's very good:

japanesechefsknife.com/DPSwdenSteelWoodenHandleSeries.html#WIDTH:%20367px;%20HEIGHT:%20174px

If you don't have enough at first for MAC or a Tojori, or a Global (which are quite good and are my current personal "next to get" knife) I would look at Forschner which are used in Restaurants quite a bit and are a softer steel like Henkels, Wustoff, etc. but are quite servicable and are what I'd have if I was going to put them in the dishwasher.

www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?range=41&Mode=Cat&Cat=67&SKU=F40521

Knives like Forschner, Henkels, Wustoff, etc. won't hold an edge as long as a MAC, Tojori, Shen, Global, etc. but are faster to resharpen, so your Henkels/Forschner can be just as sharp as anything, but won't be as sharp for as long as a harder steel knife, but will come back after you sharpen it. So I'm not totally against Forschner, Henkels, Wustoff, etc., and if your going to really abuse them even to the point of breaking them (as might happen in a restaurant) , they are arguably better since there's less invested and they'll work as good as anything, you just have to sharpen more. I let my wife use my MACs and she can dull them but not ruin them and they work much better at edge holding than Forschner, Henkels, Wustoff, etcs. It's really nice to have a razor sharp knife on hand when you want it, and with the better steeled knifes your more likely to have that. I've trainined my wife not to put them in the dishwasher or to try not to bang the edges around much to help retain the edge.

This MAC is a great knife for the price too. I have this knife and it's the work horse of our kitchen:
209.35.185.42/ShopSite/MAC_Knives_UK_60_Utility_6_1_2_inch.html
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:28:23 PM EDT
I bought my wife a sixteen piece set of Wusthoff knives (10 specialty knives and six steak knives) with the wooden block for Christmas, and you would've thought I bought her a car by her reaction. I got quite an education in the process of buying them, too. I couldn't understand how a steak knife could exist and function without serations......that is until I used these things. I think that was the closest I'll ever get to feeling what it must be like to open up someone's abdomen with a razor sharp scalpel. The steak practically fell apart. Damn, CrMo is not just for target AR barrels, I guess.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:43:48 PM EDT
tagged for links
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 9:38:58 PM EDT by gaspain]
You guys need one of these for your sets


http://www.gizmag.com/go/3791/
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:44:46 PM EDT
I have a full set of Wusthoff...

My favorite was the Santoku, then I bought a Shun Elite santoku. I have a new favorite knife. Wowza!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:42:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 10:47:54 PM EDT by MetalChef]
Yes, you could say I am into culinary knives..*drops hard knife case*...I have several thousand dollars in knives and cutting tools as they are my professional tools.

Actually, Wustof/Henckles have harder steel than most Japanese knives-just ask any pro chef like myself who has tried to sharpen one! Getting a fine edge on a Wustof or Henckle can take some time. German knives are designed with the heavier/harder cutting done in western cuisine, so the bevel of the edge is greater-around 22-24 degrees or so.

The steel in most Japanese(not all-most) knives is a bit softer than most high carbon stainless because it's easier to sharpen to a VERY fine edge. The Japanese makes much finer, more precise cuts than your average French chef for the most part. Japanese chefs are fanatical about keeping their knives razor sharp-they will spend a few minutes eatch day, or every few days, working them on water stones to insane level of sharpness. The harder metal knives(a alloy called "VG-10" is used often-Shun and Masamoto use them in their knives) are usually boning knives or Sashimi slicers so the edge will hold up under heavy slicing. I have a Shun Pro 10" Sashimi slicer made of VG-10, and it withstood almost 8 months of heavy use in a pro kitchen before needing some sharpening.(and I need to find a skilled Japanese knife sharpener in the Twin Cities , MN area. Sharpening a Single Bevel Japanese knife is no small feat)

BTW-the Japanese bevel their blades at a tighter angle. 20 degrees or less is not uncommon-Macs average around 15 degrees. Even if the steel is harder, the edge is much more fragile, and will wear down a bit faster.

Mac knives are great-I have 2 of the "Mighty" level knives in my knife kit for work-a santoku and a 8" chef's knife. If you use a mac constantly, it will dull out pretty fast actually-which can be quickly fixed on a ceramic sharpening tool.(note:using regular steels and sharpening tools can ruin MAC knives) I have a wheel sharpener called a "MinoSharp" and it keeps my Macs sharp under heavy use at work.

Basically, the heavier edges of the German knives are great all around the kitchen. They are also the best knife to use for any sort of heavy cutting/chopping. Japanese knives are better suited to fine dicing/slicing and other precision cuts. Believe me-you DO NOT want to take a fine edged Mac/Misono/Masamoto and cut a lobster in half-you WILL put deep chinks and burrs into the edge. Much like you don't want to try a very thin, fine cut on raw Ahi Tuna with a big Wustof knife-a fine edged Sashimi slicer will do it cleaner and smoother without leaving any sort of damage.

This is in all my experience anyway. It all boils down to in the end what feels best in your hand, and what job you are taking the knife to.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MetalChef:
Yes, you could say I am into culinary knives..*drops hard knife case*...I have several thousand dollars in knives and cutting tools as they are my professional tools.

Actually, Wustof/Henckles have harder steel than most Japanese knives-just ask any pro chef like myself who has tried to sharpen one! Getting a fine edge on a Wustof or Henckle can take some time. German knives are designed with the heavier/harder cutting done in western cuisine, so the bevel of the edge is greater-around 22-24 degrees or so.

The steel in most Japanese(not all-most) knives is a bit softer than most high carbon stainless because it's easier to sharpen to a VERY fine edge. The Japanese makes much finer, more precise cuts than your average French chef for the most part. Japanese chefs are fanatical about keeping their knives razor sharp-they will spend a few minutes eatch day, or every few days, working them on water stones to insane level of sharpness. The harder metal knives(a alloy called "VG-10" is used often-Shun and Masamoto use them in their knives) are usually boning knives or Sashimi slicers so the edge will hold up under heavy slicing. I have a Shun Pro 10" Sashimi slicer made of VG-10, and it withstood almost 8 months of heavy use in a pro kitchen before needing some sharpening.(and I need to find a skilled Japanese knife sharpener in the Twin Cities , MN area. Sharpening a Single Bevel Japanese knife is no small feat)

BTW-the Japanese bevel their blades at a tighter angle. 20 degrees or less is not uncommon-Macs average around 15 degrees. Even if the steel is harder, the edge is much more fragile, and will wear down a bit faster.

Mac knives are great-I have 2 of the "Mighty" level knives in my knife kit for work-a santoku and a 8" chef's knife. If you use a mac constantly, it will dull out pretty fast actually-which can be quickly fixed on a ceramic sharpening tool.(note:using regular steels and sharpening tools can ruin MAC knives) I have a wheel sharpener called a "MinoSharp" and it keeps my Macs sharp under heavy use at work.

Basically, the heavier edges of the German knives are great all around the kitchen. They are also the best knife to use for any sort of heavy cutting/chopping. Japanese knives are better suited to fine dicing/slicing and other precision cuts. Believe me-you DO NOT want to take a fine edged Mac/Misono/Masamoto and cut a lobster in half-you WILL put deep chinks and burrs into the edge. Much like you don't want to try a very thin, fine cut on raw Ahi Tuna with a big Wustof knife-a fine edged Sashimi slicer will do it cleaner and smoother without leaving any sort of damage.

This is in all my experience anyway. It all boils down to in the end what feels best in your hand, and what job you are taking the knife to.



what brands are these German knives?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:26:18 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:16:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By MetalChef:
Yes, you could say I am into culinary knives..*drops hard knife case*...I have several thousand dollars in knives and cutting tools as they are my professional tools.

Actually, Wustof/Henckles have harder steel than most Japanese knives-just ask any pro chef like myself who has tried to sharpen one! Getting a fine edge on a Wustof or Henckle can take some time. German knives are designed with the heavier/harder cutting done in western cuisine, so the bevel of the edge is greater-around 22-24 degrees or so.

The steel in most Japanese(not all-most) knives is a bit softer than most high carbon stainless because it's easier to sharpen to a VERY fine edge. The Japanese makes much finer, more precise cuts than your average French chef for the most part. Japanese chefs are fanatical about keeping their knives razor sharp-they will spend a few minutes eatch day, or every few days, working them on water stones to insane level of sharpness. The harder metal knives(a alloy called "VG-10" is used often-Shun and Masamoto use them in their knives) are usually boning knives or Sashimi slicers so the edge will hold up under heavy slicing. I have a Shun Pro 10" Sashimi slicer made of VG-10, and it withstood almost 8 months of heavy use in a pro kitchen before needing some sharpening.(and I need to find a skilled Japanese knife sharpener in the Twin Cities , MN area. Sharpening a Single Bevel Japanese knife is no small feat)

BTW-the Japanese bevel their blades at a tighter angle. 20 degrees or less is not uncommon-Macs average around 15 degrees. Even if the steel is harder, the edge is much more fragile, and will wear down a bit faster.

Mac knives are great-I have 2 of the "Mighty" level knives in my knife kit for work-a santoku and a 8" chef's knife. If you use a mac constantly, it will dull out pretty fast actually-which can be quickly fixed on a ceramic sharpening tool.(note:using regular steels and sharpening tools can ruin MAC knives) I have a wheel sharpener called a "MinoSharp" and it keeps my Macs sharp under heavy use at work.

Basically, the heavier edges of the German knives are great all around the kitchen. They are also the best knife to use for any sort of heavy cutting/chopping. Japanese knives are better suited to fine dicing/slicing and other precision cuts. Believe me-you DO NOT want to take a fine edged Mac/Misono/Masamoto and cut a lobster in half-you WILL put deep chinks and burrs into the edge. Much like you don't want to try a very thin, fine cut on raw Ahi Tuna with a big Wustof knife-a fine edged Sashimi slicer will do it cleaner and smoother without leaving any sort of damage.

This is in all my experience anyway. It all boils down to in the end what feels best in your hand, and what job you are taking the knife to.



what brands are these German knives?




Wustof/Henckles
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:28:35 AM EDT
Another high quality German knife, not so mainstream as Henckels & Wusthof.

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