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Posted: 2/4/2006 9:41:28 AM EDT

[#1]

As George Washington stated in his not so famous address to his troops "... fuck it men, it isn't worth staying here, the British out number us, the weather sucks as do the taxes, and we're hungry so we're calling it quits and not fighting for what we stand for. Let's go down to Mexico where things will be easier."

The shear number of cowards busting here amazes me.

Truely.

There are four types of people in a fight:

1. Those that stand and fight. (that's me BTW)
2. Those that run away. (see above posters who have identified themselves as cowards right here in public)
3. Those that actively help the enemy. (note the above posters who are encouraging those in the fight to run from it above)
4. Those that actively help the ones fighting (see nobody above)

So most of the posters in this thread are in categories 2 and 3, a few of us in 1, and nobody in number 4. That's the state of America today. The weak and cowardly have their say from the sidelines, enjoy your self, I moved here and I'm staying here until I have spent myself in the fight. It's a good thing that at least 240 years ago men were made of stronger stuff.

Do you think that each of the 14 million conservatives in the state is kept here by lock and chain? How freaking hard is it to run from a fight? I really don't know as I find it impossible. How could I live with myself not having stood up and give it my best shot each and every time. I wasn't born here. I wasn't born in to a service family. My father did two years during Korea until his medical discharge after a crippling injury. Yet I knew that there was honor in serving and fighting for my country - all 50 states, not just the one I was born in.

The shouts of flee from the fight from the #3 people is to be expected from those who have never tested their meddle but from others it is a suprising disapointment. I mean, how hard is it to pull the plug and run - a moving van and a for sale sign. Wow it had never crossed my mind how easy it would be to move to another state, gee thanks Einstein. Other #3 people fling their poo and insults which is another wonderful comment on the state of our nation today.

Most here are too young to remember a great man and Californian named Ronald Reagan. He was born in Illinois, as was I, and moved here. He is credited by more than one with starting the conservative revolution which you now enjoy. That's right, it did start here. In 1964 then Mr. Reagan delivered a speach in support of Barry Goldwater's persidential campaign which has motivated me along with others that followed. Before you continue with the poo flinging have a read at this, and try to understand the concepts.

I am going to talk of controversial things. I make no apology for this.

It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self government."

This idea -- that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power -- is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's age-old dream--the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order -- or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."

The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing.

Public servants say, always with the best of intentions, "What greater service we could render if only we had a little more money and a little more power." But the truth is that outside of its legitimate function, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector.

Yet any time you and I question the schemes of the do-gooders, we're denounced as being opposed to their humanitarian goals. It seems impossible to legitimately debate their solutions with the assumption that all of us share the desire to help the less fortunate. They tell us we're always "against," never "for" anything.

We are for a provision that destitution should not follow unemployment by reason of old age, and to that end we have accepted Social Security as a step toward meeting the problem. However, we are against those entrusted with this program when they practice deception regarding its fiscal shortcomings, when they charge that any criticism of the program means that we want to end payments....

We are for aiding our allies by sharing our material blessings with nations which share our fundamental beliefs, but we are against doling out money government to government, creating bureaucracy, if not socialism, all over the world.

We need true tax reform that will at least make a start toward restoring for our children the American Dream that wealth is denied to no one, that each individual has the right to fly as high as his strength and ability will take him.... But we cannot have such reform while our tax policy is engineered by people who view the tax as a means of achieving changes in our social structure....

Have we the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to traditional proportionate taxation? . . . Today in our country the tax collector's share is 37 cents of every dollar earned. Freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping from our grasp.

Are you willing to spend time studying the issues, making yourself aware, and then conveying that information to family and friends? Will you resist the temptation to get a government handout for your community? Realize that the doctor's fight against socialized medicine is your fight. We can't socialize the doctors without socializing the patients. Recognize that government invasion of public power is eventually an assault upon your own business. If some among you fear taking a stand because you are afraid of reprisals from customers, clients, or even government, recognize that you are just feeding the crocodile hoping he'll eat you last.

If all of this seems like a great deal of trouble, think what's at stake. We are faced with the most evil enemy mankind has known in his long climb from the swamp to the stars. There can be no security anywhere in the free world if there is no fiscal and economic stability within the United States. Those who ask us to trade our freedom for the soup kitchen of the welfare state are architects of a policy of accommodation.

They say the world has become too complex for simple answers. They are wrong. There are no easy answers, but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right. Winston Churchill said that "the destiny of man is not measured by material computation. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we are spirits--not animals." And he said, "There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty."

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done.

-- Ronald Reagan 1964

Posted: 2/4/2006 10:02:55 AM EDT

[#2]

i beg to differ noone is telling you to cut and run. they are telling you that when you have a choice between a place where you are free to exercise the rights you ought to have and a place where you cant/dont its up to you to choose where you want to be.

some of you dont have the choice and must live in occupied territory, so be it, but harrass the enemy at every turn(legally i mean) and hopefully one day freedom will return.

Posted: 2/4/2006 10:29:45 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
As George Washington stated in his not so famous address to his troops "... fuck it men, it isn't worth staying here, the British out number us, the weather sucks as do the taxes, and we're hungry so we're calling it quits and not fighting for what we stand for. Let's go down to Mexico where things will be easier."

The shear number of cowards busting here amazes me.

Truely.

There are four types of people in a fight:

1. Those that stand and fight. (that's me BTW)
2. Those that run away. (see above posters who have identified themselves as cowards right here in public)
3. Those that actively help the enemy. (note the above posters who are encouraging those in the fight to run from it above)
4. Those that actively help the ones fighting (see nobody above)

So most of the posters in this thread are in categories 2 and 3, a few of us in 1, and nobody in number 4. That's the state of America today. The weak and cowardly have their say from the sidelines, enjoy your self, I moved here and I'm staying here until I have spent myself in the fight. It's a good thing that at least 240 years ago men were made of stronger stuff.

Do you think that each of the 14 million conservatives in the state is kept here by lock and chain? How freaking hard is it to run from a fight? I really don't know as I find it impossible. How could I live with myself not having stood up and give it my best shot each and every time. I wasn't born here. I wasn't born in to a service family. My father did two years during Korea until his medical discharge after a crippling injury. Yet I knew that there was honor in serving and fighting for my country - all 50 states, not just the one I was born in.

The shouts of flee from the fight from the #3 people is to be expected from those who have never tested their meddle but from others it is a suprising disapointment. I mean, how hard is it to pull the plug and run - a moving van and a for sale sign. Wow it had never crossed my mind how easy it would be to move to another state, gee thanks Einstein. Other #3 people fling their poo and insults which is another wonderful comment on the state of our nation today.

Most here are too young to remember a great man and Californian named Ronald Reagan. He was born in Illinois, as was I, and moved here. He is credited by more than one with starting the conservative revolution which you now enjoy. That's right, it did start here. In 1964 then Mr. Reagan delivered a speach in support of Barry Goldwater's persidential campaign which has motivated me along with others that followed. Before you continue with the poo flinging have a read at this, and try to understand the concepts.

I am going to talk of controversial things. I make no apology for this.

It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self government."

This idea -- that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power -- is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's age-old dream--the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order -- or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."

The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing.

Public servants say, always with the best of intentions, "What greater service we could render if only we had a little more money and a little more power." But the truth is that outside of its legitimate function, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector.

Yet any time you and I question the schemes of the do-gooders, we're denounced as being opposed to their humanitarian goals. It seems impossible to legitimately debate their solutions with the assumption that all of us share the desire to help the less fortunate. They tell us we're always "against," never "for" anything.

We are for a provision that destitution should not follow unemployment by reason of old age, and to that end we have accepted Social Security as a step toward meeting the problem. However, we are against those entrusted with this program when they practice deception regarding its fiscal shortcomings, when they charge that any criticism of the program means that we want to end payments....

We are for aiding our allies by sharing our material blessings with nations which share our fundamental beliefs, but we are against doling out money government to government, creating bureaucracy, if not socialism, all over the world.

We need true tax reform that will at least make a start toward restoring for our children the American Dream that wealth is denied to no one, that each individual has the right to fly as high as his strength and ability will take him.... But we cannot have such reform while our tax policy is engineered by people who view the tax as a means of achieving changes in our social structure....

Have we the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to traditional proportionate taxation? . . . Today in our country the tax collector's share is 37 cents of every dollar earned. Freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping from our grasp.

Are you willing to spend time studying the issues, making yourself aware, and then conveying that information to family and friends? Will you resist the temptation to get a government handout for your community? Realize that the doctor's fight against socialized medicine is your fight. We can't socialize the doctors without socializing the patients. Recognize that government invasion of public power is eventually an assault upon your own business. If some among you fear taking a stand because you are afraid of reprisals from customers, clients, or even government, recognize that you are just feeding the crocodile hoping he'll eat you last.

If all of this seems like a great deal of trouble, think what's at stake. We are faced with the most evil enemy mankind has known in his long climb from the swamp to the stars. There can be no security anywhere in the free world if there is no fiscal and economic stability within the United States. Those who ask us to trade our freedom for the soup kitchen of the welfare state are architects of a policy of accommodation.

They say the world has become too complex for simple answers. They are wrong. There are no easy answers, but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right. Winston Churchill said that "the destiny of man is not measured by material computation. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we are spirits--not animals." And he said, "There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty."

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done.
-- Ronald Reagan 1964

Trust me if I were a coward I would have stayed. I like you chose to serve my country. I am here in Camp Lejeune NC and love it. I have a CCW permit, I am a responsible Marine I have served in Iraq twice and I am looking to volunteer for a third tour most importantly I am an American.

What is there to fight in California? High home prices? High taxes? Alternative lifestyles? How do you propose to fight the liberals? To do that it takes money. Do you have it? I think there is a higher calling to protect our country.

You make an analogy of George Washington fighting the British. Well guess what, there were no British there in California to fight.

A better analogy is that of the Civil War. But that was a war that freed the slaves and prevented the split of our great nation.

The fight in California is against Californians. What people don't get is that you cannot legislate stupidity and the criminal mind out of anyone. Who are we kidding. The state schools are pushing their beliefs on students. That is high schools and liberal bastions such as Berkeley. How do you propose to fight liberal making factories? For every one you turn there are 100 more. It is fashionable to be a liberal. It is unfashionable to be otherwise.

I voted with my service. I left. Stay if you like I will live in a free state. BTW be careful who you call a coward. There are many fine men and women who left that state for whatever reason. If you can afford home prices in the 600k region then you did some outstanding financial planning. I'll stick where it's cheaper to own a home.

Max

Posted: 2/4/2006 10:40:43 AM EDT

[#4]

When law enforcement acts outside the law, violates its own rules, regulations and restrictions, elects to determine for itself what rights the People should have, they become nothing more than a socialist goon squad, equal to any other enemy of the US, including a foreign invader, and should be treated as such.

Posted: 2/4/2006 10:51:43 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do Californians allow this kind of crap to go on????

Because most of California WANTS this to go on!

You sir, are ignorant. (COC violation observed)

Posted: 2/4/2006 10:54:03 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I foresee a bunch of stripped lowers appearing on EE in the near future.

What, you thought you were going to get a fair shake from the government and they'd let you keep your guns?

You guys crack me up. The right to bear arms does not exist in California. Read the AG's words:

It should be noted that individuals who timely registered ACategory 1@ and ACategory 2@
assault weapons were allowed to keep or add the PC section 12276.1 features on their
firearms.

The right to bear arms does not exist in California. You own guns only with the government's permission.

That much is true.

Posted: 2/4/2006 11:09:49 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What gets me is most of you guys could move to a "free" state and earn HALF of the wage you make in Commie land, and still enjoy a higher standard of living because taxes are lower and the liberal fucktard housing bubble won't be problem.

But then again I love how some feel it is easy to just get up and move... some of us just cant... we CANT. I would have moved out of here a year ago if I could... had the chance but due to circumstances we are unable.

I can't move without going to court first. I have shared custody of my daughter so neither my ex-wife nor I can move without the others consent. Oh, she'd have no problem with me moving but no way she's going to let me take my daughter with me. I don't blame her. I wouldn't consent to her taking my daughter out of state either.

I stay here for my daughter, and I don't owe anyone an apology for that. I have my priorities, fuck whatever anyone else thinks.

But when she goes off to college next year it will be a different situation. We've been looking into the Charlotte NC area.

Posted: 2/4/2006 11:15:38 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do Californians allow this kind of crap to go on????

Because most of California WANTS this to go on!

You sir, are ignorant. (COC violation observed)

If not true, why does it continue?

Posted: 2/4/2006 11:23:32 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

This will only be resolved in court.

I wonder which poor schmuck will be the test case?????????????

Hmmmmmmm...I'm seeing something...yes..yes, there it is...

"The State of California vs. Mike_Mills"

Posted: 2/4/2006 11:26:59 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:

This will only be resolved in court.

I wonder which poor schmuck will be the test case?????????????

Hmmmmmmm...I'm seeing something...yes..yes, there it is...

"The State of California vs. Mike_Mills"

There is no way this will be resolved in favor of gunowners in the CA state court system. And if it ends up in Fed court more of the same. The 9th Circus sure isn't going to decide in our favor.

Posted: 2/4/2006 12:17:19 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
There are four types of people in a fight:

1. Those that stand and fight. (that's me BTW)
2. Those that run away. (see above posters who have identified themselves as cowards right here in public)
3. Those that actively help the enemy. (note the above posters who are encouraging those in the fight to run from it above)
4. Those that actively help the ones fighting (see nobody above)

Why pay taxes to support a state government that wants to incarcerate you for the mere possession of something that is legal in almost every other state? They have no use for you. They don't like you. As far as they are concerned you are a criminal. They want to take your liberty from you and let you rot or better yet die in a prison cell. Just to be clear “They” are your fellow citizens in the majority who through their elected officials have enacted these laws that want to put you in the same class as a thief, rapist or murderer.

Whether you choose to stay or leave you will be dead soon enough. Why not leave and enjoy what life you have left. In any case that’s my plan when the time comes that my state adopts CA type restrictions/bans/registration on what is currently legal to possess. I don’t see any cowardice in that. I’m not abandoning my fellow combatants on the battlefield. Anyone who chooses to can leave to make a better life for themselves.

My great great grandparents left their homelands, friends and family with nothing but the clothes on their backs and few small possessions for freedom and a better life in America for their families. Were they cowards too?

Posted: 2/4/2006 12:29:33 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
When law enforcement acts outside the law, violates its own rules, regulations and restrictions, elects to determine for itself what rights the People should have, they become nothing more than a socialist goon squad, equal to any other enemy of the US, including a foreign invader, and should be treated as such.

+1,

I feel this is a national problem and no one in a state where machineguns are regulated has a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing Californians. Consider California a testbed for what will eventually become federal law.

We're never going to convince enough people to vote away the problems in this country, the government is too good at vulgar displays of power. Most thinking people cast a vote for the guy they feel will do the best out of the two major parties, and go to sleep at night feeling they've done everything they can do to change the government.

No one has the balls to stand up to them, because every few years they pick a domestic victim and throw their full weight into a beatdown to scare everyone else into keeping in line. It's no different than the public torture and execution comitted by almost all governments throughout history, notably the Nazis, Romans, and all of Christian Europe throughout the middle ages. After all, it is better to be feared than loved.

Not only that, but voting our way to a freer nation is numerically impossible. The speed at which welfare families breed voters is equalled only by the speed at which the public education system throws them in with your kids, marginally educates them, and indoctrinates them all with socialism.

Short of a world war on the scale of WWII (ie multiple countries with first-and-second-world armies/aircraft/missiles/even nukes; not one of the 'concept' wars like "drugs, terror, poverty, etc.") in which our nation was constantly under attack, or so strained by a war effort that everyone was affected in a major way (like a draft, rationing, blackouts, etc.) nothing is going to change here. It's just going to keep getting worse. Without something like that to unite us, the only other possibilities on the table are civil revolution by force, or bending our knees to the ever restrictive and abusive authority of the technocratic police state.

Posted: 2/4/2006 12:44:15 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When law enforcement acts outside the law, violates its own rules, regulations and restrictions, elects to determine for itself what rights the People should have, they become nothing more than a socialist goon squad, equal to any other enemy of the US, including a foreign invader, and should be treated as such.

+1,

I feel this is a national problem and no one in a state where machineguns are regulated has a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing Californians. Consider California a testbed for what will eventually become federal law.

We're never going to convince enough people to vote away the problems in this country, the government is too good at vulgar displays of power. Most thinking people cast a vote for the guy they feel will do the best out of the two major parties, and go to sleep at night feeling they've done everything they can do to change the government.

No one has the balls to stand up to them, because every few years they pick a domestic victim and throw their full weight into a beatdown to scare everyone else into keeping in line. It's no different than the public torture and execution comitted by almost all governments throughout history, notably the Nazis, Romans, and all of Christian Europe throughout the middle ages. After all, it is better to be feared than loved.

Not only that, but voting our way to a freer nation is numerically impossible. The speed at which welfare families breed voters is equalled only by the speed at which the public education system throws them in with your kids, marginally educates them, and indoctrinates them all with socialism.

Short of a world war on the scale of WWII (ie multiple countries with first-and-second-world armies/aircraft/missiles/even nukes; not one of the 'concept' wars like "drugs, terror, poverty, etc.") in which our nation was constantly under attack, or so strained by a war effort that everyone was affected in a major way (like a draft, rationing, blackouts, etc.) nothing is going to change here. It's just going to keep getting worse. Without something like that to unite us, the only other possibilities on the table are civil revolution by force, or bending our knees to the ever restrictive and abusive authority of the technocratic police state.

Don't know how to even if I was willing. And I am not.

Posted: 2/4/2006 12:50:25 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Don't know how to even if I was willing. And I am not.

Me either. I almost hope Hillary wins the next election just so we can get this shitstorm on the road.

Posted: 2/4/2006 12:58:34 PM EDT

[#15]

I don't care what state we live in, the Cali laws can happen in any of them. 1 year or 20 years, it can happen.... and if you study history of gun laws and gun control in THIS country it is slowely creeping right across the Good "O" USA. And please I don't want to read or see anyone here say it Can't happen in my state. So flame on...............................

Posted: 2/4/2006 1:31:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I foresee a bunch of stripped lowers appearing on EE in the near future.

What, you thought you were going to get a fair shake from the government and they'd let you keep your guns?

You guys crack me up. The right to bear arms does not exist in California. Read the AG's words:

It should be noted that individuals who timely registered ACategory 1@ and ACategory 2@
assault weapons were allowed to keep or add the PC section 12276.1 features on their
firearms.

The right to bear arms does not exist in California. You own guns only with the government's permission.

And I suppose you're ALLOWED to purchase a new full auto firearm? Are you ALLOWED to have active RPG rounds? Are you ALLOWED to change your pistol to fire full auto? Are you ALLOWED to put a buttstock on that pistol? Are you ALLOWED to grab a hacksaw and remove as much of your rifle's barrel as you want? Are you ALLOWED to own and operate an M1 Abrams tank? Even if you could accord it, are you ALLOWED to own an FA-22 Raptor?

Don't talk to me about ALLOWED. You're not ALLOWED to do anything either. I have TWO restrictions over you, CCW and "assault weapons." That doesn't make you a "Free American" and me a slave.

This whole situation is rediculous, but it may turn out to be a good thing after all. This may be the straw that broke the camel's back, there are alot of people REALLY fired up about this issue, and some of them have alot of money. We're even starting a legal fund to push this as far as it needs to go. We're not backing down quietly and selling our lowers out of state, we are fighting for them.

Posted: 2/4/2006 1:36:56 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Don't talk to me about ALLOWED. You're not ALLOWED to do anything either. I have TWO restrictions over you, CCW and "assault weapons." That doesn't make you a "Free American" and me a slave.

Posted: 2/4/2006 3:25:27 PM EDT

[#18]

Those of us in the less restrictive states find it easy to point at Kalifornia and snicker at the poor bastards. Truth is, we are all just a soccer mom and local newspaper report away from those same, restrictive laws. The Second Amendment doesn't mean jack shit all to Joe and Jill Citizen, who most likely still get their news from the Dan Rather ilk, be it newspaper, TV or NPR. Because of the leftists, the public knows more about the First Amendment due to the fact that the commie reporters are always squawking about how it is getting trampled on. The liberal dominant media paints us all as jackoff sociopaths, not defenders of freedom, and NOBODY wants to be associated with the jackoffs. So, the legislatures do their thing, and only get what amounts to a whimper from the guys with the guns, because we who sit here and stroke each others egos with how "powerful" we all are, are still in the minority of gunowners. It's easier for the soccer moms to vote for a ban on "assault weapons" than it is for them to ban shotguns. "Assault weapons" conjure up images of Bin Laden, while shotguns remind them of Grandpa. Even though it's the same friggin thing in the end. Incrementalism, my dear Watson.

I live in New Hampshire. Even with the freedoms I enjoy, it's staggering the number of people who look at my cadre of toys in my safe and say "is that legal?" or "do you have a license for that stuff?" It's sickening when you hear it every day. Most of America's gunowners don't even appreciate the freedom they have, granted to them by the fact they were born-given by God. And so, with the mentality that the government "allows" them to have guns, they go forth with the notion of "reasonable gun laws", then punch in the affirmative in the voting booth-BAM!!!-another Assault Weapons, .50BMG, High Capacity Mag., etc. ban.

Yeah, some of us rest easy now. But I cast no aspersions to those who have to live on the left coast, 'cause I live in New Hampshire, and I'm only 65 miles from the Peoples Republic of Cambridge in Massachusetts, where the "enlightened" live. I'm more fearful of them than the Taliban.

The water is gettin' damn hot for us frogs, isn't it? Is it time to jump out yet?

Posted: 2/8/2006 11:26:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Sickening... this needs to be confronted in their own fashion. If frivolous lawsuits can be filed against the gun industry then they should be able to reciprocate. They're losing business and potential profits. Sue them. What about the citizens who have guns that are/will be banned? Maybe they bought them as an investment. Once again, they should be made to pay for their loss. Hit them where it hurts in their damn wallets since that's all they care about. We need to band together. We need a front in CA, NY, and in DC. We need to become active because it's already too late. One morning we'll wake up and this will be banned. Another and something else will be banned. NRA's not going to help us. Neither is GOA. They'll do just enough to justify their existence so we continue to send them money. Insead send your money to an organization that will actually work for you. If there's not one form one. If the government is going to tell us how we should live then they should be held accountable when life doesn't fit into their ideal plan.

No one will read this and take any action. I just wanted to vent on the subject too. But by god if you're going to do it let the rest of us know so we can back you up.

Posted: 2/9/2006 2:58:58 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do Californians allow this kind of crap to go on????

Because most of California WANTS this to go on!

You sir, are ignorant. (COC violation observed)

What the hell are you talking about? I live in California, and I love it here. However, this place is full of "liberals" who would be perfectly happy if all guns were banned. Anyone who lives here knows that. Let's face it, we are the minority. That doesn't mean we can't fight. Do you disagree with this somehow? Calling me ignorant for pointing out the facts is not right.

Posted: 2/9/2006 3:04:57 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
BOHICA. You guys should be used to it. In fact you must damn well enjoy it.

Yep.

GR

Posted: 2/9/2006 3:14:45 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
As George Washington stated in his not so famous address to his troops "... fuck it men, it isn't worth staying here, the British out number us, the weather sucks as do the taxes, and we're hungry so we're calling it quits and not fighting for what we stand for. Let's go down to Mexico where things will be easier."

The shear number of cowards busting here amazes me.

Truely.

There are four types of people in a fight:

1. Those that stand and fight. (that's me BTW)
2. Those that run away. (see above posters who have identified themselves as cowards right here in public)
3. Those that actively help the enemy. (note the above posters who are encouraging those in the fight to run from it above)
4. Those that actively help the ones fighting (see nobody above)

So most of the posters in this thread are in categories 2 and 3, a few of us in 1, and nobody in number 4. That's the state of America today. The weak and cowardly have their say from the sidelines, enjoy your self, I moved here and I'm staying here until I have spent myself in the fight. It's a good thing that at least 240 years ago men were made of stronger stuff.

Do you think that each of the 14 million conservatives in the state is kept here by lock and chain? How freaking hard is it to run from a fight? I really don't know as I find it impossible. How could I live with myself not having stood up and give it my best shot each and every time. I wasn't born here. I wasn't born in to a service family. My father did two years during Korea until his medical discharge after a crippling injury. Yet I knew that there was honor in serving and fighting for my country - all 50 states, not just the one I was born in.

The shouts of flee from the fight from the #3 people is to be expected from those who have never tested their meddle but from others it is a suprising disapointment. I mean, how hard is it to pull the plug and run - a moving van and a for sale sign. Wow it had never crossed my mind how easy it would be to move to another state, gee thanks Einstein. Other #3 people fling their poo and insults which is another wonderful comment on the state of our nation today.

Most here are too young to remember a great man and Californian named Ronald Reagan. He was born in Illinois, as was I, and moved here. He is credited by more than one with starting the conservative revolution which you now enjoy. That's right, it did start here. In 1964 then Mr. Reagan delivered a speach in support of Barry Goldwater's persidential campaign which has motivated me along with others that followed. Before you continue with the poo flinging have a read at this, and try to understand the concepts.

I am going to talk of controversial things. I make no apology for this.

It's time we asked ourselves if we still know the freedoms intended for us by the Founding Fathers. James Madison said, "We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self government."

This idea -- that government was beholden to the people, that it had no other source of power -- is still the newest, most unique idea in all the long history of man's relation to man. This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American Revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capital can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's age-old dream--the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order -- or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."

The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing.

Public servants say, always with the best of intentions, "What greater service we could render if only we had a little more money and a little more power." But the truth is that outside of its legitimate function, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector.

Yet any time you and I question the schemes of the do-gooders, we're denounced as being opposed to their humanitarian goals. It seems impossible to legitimately debate their solutions with the assumption that all of us share the desire to help the less fortunate. They tell us we're always "against," never "for" anything.

We are for a provision that destitution should not follow unemployment by reason of old age, and to that end we have accepted Social Security as a step toward meeting the problem. However, we are against those entrusted with this program when they practice deception regarding its fiscal shortcomings, when they charge that any criticism of the program means that we want to end payments....

We are for aiding our allies by sharing our material blessings with nations which share our fundamental beliefs, but we are against doling out money government to government, creating bureaucracy, if not socialism, all over the world.

We need true tax reform that will at least make a start toward restoring for our children the American Dream that wealth is denied to no one, that each individual has the right to fly as high as his strength and ability will take him.... But we cannot have such reform while our tax policy is engineered by people who view the tax as a means of achieving changes in our social structure....

Have we the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to traditional proportionate taxation? . . . Today in our country the tax collector's share is 37 cents of every dollar earned. Freedom has never been so fragile, so close to slipping from our grasp.

Are you willing to spend time studying the issues, making yourself aware, and then conveying that information to family and friends? Will you resist the temptation to get a government handout for your community? Realize that the doctor's fight against socialized medicine is your fight. We can't socialize the doctors without socializing the patients. Recognize that government invasion of public power is eventually an assault upon your own business. If some among you fear taking a stand because you are afraid of reprisals from customers, clients, or even government, recognize that you are just feeding the crocodile hoping he'll eat you last.

If all of this seems like a great deal of trouble, think what's at stake. We are faced with the most evil enemy mankind has known in his long climb from the swamp to the stars. There can be no security anywhere in the free world if there is no fiscal and economic stability within the United States. Those who ask us to trade our freedom for the soup kitchen of the welfare state are architects of a policy of accommodation.

They say the world has become too complex for simple answers. They are wrong. There are no easy answers, but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right. Winston Churchill said that "the destiny of man is not measured by material computation. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we are spirits--not animals." And he said, "There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty."

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done.
-- Ronald Reagan 1964

+1000000000

We may have some stupid laws here, but this is still America. I live in one of most liberal parts of the state (the bay area) and there are at least 4 outdoor ranges within an hour from my house. There are 2-3 indoor ranges too.

All of you who say shit like "I hope California falls into the Pacific"...you REALLY need to think about what you are saying. If you were truly a supporter of our RKBA and your fellow gun owners, you would find a way to help us. State boundaries mean nothing in this fight. What happens in one state will spread to others. In case you have forgotten, certain so-called "Assault Weapons" were banned federally until recently. Next time this happens, it will be more similar to the California ban (much more strict). If all you can do is come up with mindless insults, then go to hell. Keep them to yourself.

Posted: 2/9/2006 5:01:32 AM EDT

[#23]

California is the belweather for the rest of the country. What gets banned there is but a microcosm for the rest of our future(s). I'd be leery about what happens there, and use it as a warning to be on the lookout for what they are thinking on Capitol Hill. California is the petri dish.

By God, we better all be concerned.

Posted: 2/9/2006 8:01:19 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
California is the belweather for the rest of the country. What gets banned there is but a microcosm for the rest of our future(s). I'd be leery about what happens there, and use it as a warning to be on the lookout for what they are thinking on Capitol Hill. California is the petri dish.

By God, we better all be concerned.

Thank you sir, you're right.

Posted: 2/9/2006 6:56:21 PM EDT

[#25]

In a nutshell what they are saying is that they can add names to the list, and even if the names of the lowers weren't on the list, and you can now theoretically get a lower registered, you still can't built one into a banned by features weapon. And arguing intent is going nowhere, clearly the intent of the legislature was to ban further import, manufacture, etc etc etc. a lot of guys decided that there was in fact a loophole and they were going to take advantage of it.

The AG is closing that apparent loophole in a way most guys don't care for. Is he right or wrong? My gut feel is that unfortunately he is going to be right until we get the Second applied to CA (and NY, and MD, etc etc) or come up with the right case to have a court find he is wrong. Otherwise, except for the guys that want crazy buying "off-list" lowers, nothing has changed in the last few months. Unfortunatley, it's going to be harder than hell to convince a jury that any AR lower doesn't fit into AR "Series".

And as usual, we welcome all the help we are getting from folks in other states. I'm sure I saw some in there amongst all the assholes, bitchers and whiners. I'm sure somebody must have offered help instead of shooting his mouth off.

Posted: 2/9/2006 8:00:23 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
In a nutshell what they are saying is that they can add names to the list, and even if the names of the lowers weren't on the list, and you can now theoretically get a lower registered, you still can't built one into a banned by features weapon. And arguing intent is going nowhere, clearly the intent of the legislature was to ban further import, manufacture, etc etc etc. a lot of guys decided that there was in fact a loophole and they were going to take advantage of it.

The AG is closing that apparent loophole in a way most guys don't care for. Is he right or wrong? My gut feel is that unfortunately he is going to be right until we get the Second applied to CA (and NY, and MD, etc etc) or come up with the right case to have a court find he is wrong. Otherwise, except for the guys that want crazy buying "off-list" lowers, nothing has changed in the last few months. Unfortunatley, it's going to be harder than hell to convince a jury that any AR lower doesn't fit into AR "Series".

And as usual, we welcome all the help we are getting from folks in other states. I'm sure I saw some in there amongst all the assholes, bitchers and whiners. I'm sure somebody must have offered help instead of shooting his mouth off.

I'd be interested in what sort of help you Kali guys are looking for?
It is MO that was is rtequired is some leadership in your state, and nationally for that matter, to unify gunowners and create a true grassroots effort. NRA and GOA do a fair job of lobbying and paying off corrupt politicians but until gunowners are truly willing to stand together and say enough, this shit will continue. And there has been a total lack of leadership within our ranks to rally the troops so to speak. Of course that is MO and probably not shared by many, which in fact, sumarizes the problem excellently.

Hell, I don't even buy into the incorporation bullshit you (and a long list of others who seek to, or justify, infringe on our freedoms) keep spewing. But I am interested in what sort of help you think would be useful from those in other states.

Signed,
bitchy, whiny asshole who shoots his mouth off.

Hey, you did incorporate the 1st Amend didn't you?

Posted: 2/10/2006 8:24:55 PM EDT

[#27]

Why do Californians allow this kind of crap to go on????

because elections are won and lost in SF and LA at the wim of fags and commies!

Posted: 2/10/2006 8:41:38 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not getting into this. Alot of you out of staters can be real assholes.

Yes, like Redcap

fucking out of state assholes

they are next, lets see how the little asswipes piss themselves when the government comes for them

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

First off, they try every year here, and we show up by the bus load to fight them, they have not been able to yet...

You all seem to be too lazy to get off your quads, or off your jet ski's to do anything about it...

You all make your bed, now sleep in it!...

Or...

GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!. (and I have noticed a bunch of you have, just by buying your lowers , that is good!...Power in numbers, now dont stop fighting!)

BTW: Im a California Native, Born in San Bernardino Co. A large amount of my family live down there now. Im a Cali Rifle and Pistol Assn member, and do what I can from here.

I wish you all the best of luck, but dont go trying to spread your hate to those of us in Free America, Because your are getting fucked over.

[personal attack removed - Paul]

Posted: 2/10/2006 9:30:40 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
In a nutshell what they are saying is that they can add names to the list, and even if the names of the lowers weren't on the list, and you can now theoretically get a lower registered, you still can't built one into a banned by features weapon. And arguing intent is going nowhere, clearly the intent of the legislature was to ban further import, manufacture, etc etc etc. a lot of guys decided that there was in fact a loophole and they were going to take advantage of it.

The AG is closing that apparent loophole in a way most guys don't care for. Is he right or wrong? My gut feel is that unfortunately he is going to be right until we get the Second applied to CA (and NY, and MD, etc etc) or come up with the right case to have a court find he is wrong. Otherwise, except for the guys that want crazy buying "off-list" lowers, nothing has changed in the last few months. Unfortunatley, it's going to be harder than hell to convince a jury that any AR lower doesn't fit into AR "Series".

And as usual, we welcome all the help we are getting from folks in other states. I'm sure I saw some in there amongst all the assholes, bitchers and whiners. I'm sure somebody must have offered help instead of shooting his mouth off.

I'd be interested in what sort of help you Kali guys are looking for?
It is MO that was is rtequired is some leadership in your state, and nationally for that matter, to unify gunowners and create a true grassroots effort. NRA and GOA do a fair job of lobbying and paying off corrupt politicians but until gunowners are truly willing to stand together and say enough, this shit will continue. And there has been a total lack of leadership within our ranks to rally the troops so to speak. Of course that is MO and probably not shared by many, which in fact, sumarizes the problem excellently.

Hell, I don't even buy into the incorporation bullshit you (and a long list of others who seek to, or justify, infringe on our freedoms) keep spewing. But I am interested in what sort of help you think would be useful from those in other states.

Signed,
bitchy, whiny asshole who shoots his mouth off.

Hey, you did incorporate the 1st Amend didn't you?

No bitchy whiny Asshole I didn't. The people that have the legal ability to do it did. And as ignorant as you are you need the help more than we do. I bet you don't have the balls to ask on the legal forum about incorporation. None of the retards with your view ever do. wonder why?

If you really wanted to help rather than drool get the 2nd incorporated. Fuckwad.

Or if you don't have the balls to do that, why don't you tell us which corrupt politicians they paid off? Names and dates? maybe, or are you just drooling about that too?

Posted: 2/10/2006 9:33:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Enough. Repeatedly attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - California DOJ creates new law without legislation - AR/AK ban (Page 2 of 2)

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