Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 2/3/2006 9:02:50 AM EDT

Lets hear it all - lets talk commercial copies

Durability
Reliability
Pr­ice
Ammo
Caliber

the whole nine yards
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:04:22 AM EDT
Tag.


Although I can tell you right off the bat that the SKS is cheaper and fires better ammo.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:05:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
Lets hear it all - lets talk commercial copies

Durability
Reliability
Pr­ice
Ammo
Caliber

the whole nine yards


both durable
both reliable
sks is MUCH cheaper
sks ammo is much cheaper and plentiful
7.62x39 is more powerful. the .30 carbine was invented to replace the handgun, right?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:08:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

Originally Posted By danpass:
Lets hear it all - lets talk commercial copies

Durability
Reliability
Pr­ice
Ammo
Caliber

the whole nine yards


both durable
both reliable
sks is MUCH cheaper
sks ammo is much cheaper and plentiful
7.62x39 is more powerful. the .30 carbine was invented to replace the handgun, right?



What he said!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:11:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 9:13:22 AM EDT by danpass]
cool, keep it coming.


the .30 carbine cartridge seems to be unique in that it is:

110 grain at 1900fps and really sweet with softpoints


dont know much about the 7.62x39 cartridge

I've got an M1 Carbine (Iver Johnson)


what type of SKS would a beginner get ?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:11:57 AM EDT
Since there are no commercial copies of the SKS, we'll assume you meant copies of the M1 Carbine.

Both are good weapons, but I'd think the SKS would have the edge on reliability. They're tough as nails and very robust. The chances of getting a perfectly working SKS vs. a perfectly working commercial copy M1 Carbine are probably better.

That said, both are fun little rifles. The SKS should be considered more powerful, t hough. Ammo is cheaper. Accuracy would probably be about the same with both.

And in the spirit of ARFCOM, I declare, you should

GET BOTH
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:15:42 AM EDT
I have both.

SKS advantages
cheaper
cheaper ammo
more powerful

.30 carbine advantages
lighter
smaller
much better sights
much more user friendly
easier to shoot accurately
uses higher capacity detachable mags


If I had to choose one as a fighting weapon, it would be the .30 carbine. It is well balanced, easy to shoot quickly with accuracy, very good ergonomic, detachable mags, and is quite effective with the proper ammo.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:16:43 AM EDT
SKS is cheap and reliable.

Collector get a Carbine

Max
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:17:17 AM EDT
I'd say the M1 carbine is a little lighter and a tad more compact. I have handled both, but never at the same time. The SKS's 7.62 round certainly has more power than a .30 carbine. The M1 has a detachable magazine though, the SKS (typical) does not.

If I had to pick, I'd say SKS.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:24:08 AM EDT
Do both. If that isn't possible, and you want a shooter, go with the SKS. Carbine's are cute and light and fun to shoot----kind of like a .22 on steroids----but the ammo is not inexpensive and there just isn't the supply of good quality, inexpensive, parts around like there used to be.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

what type of SKS would a beginner get ?



It's an SKS, IMHO there is no difference between one for an experienced SKS shooter and a novice.

They are cheap. Find one that looks to be in good shape, throw down your $125-$300 and be out the door with a rifle that will outlast you.

Chinese and Russian are good. Albanians are rare. Yugoslavians can be found "new" but have all sorts of Yugo goodies hanging off of them, they're ugly (more so than every other ugly SKS)

Enjoy.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:26:40 AM EDT
A man with a dirty SKS has a big advantage over a man with a clean M1 Carbine.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:27:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Tag.


Although I can tell you right off the bat that the SKS is cheaper and fires better ammo.



Define better?

The common Reminton 110Gn JSP .30 carbine load outperforms most 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm loads even trough body armor and auto glass.

www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000084#000000


The only 7.62x39 load that performs as well or better is the Lapua megaspire point which is near impossible to find since midsouth stopped selling it.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:29:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 9:44:02 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
7.62x39 is more powerful...



Not if you define power in wound ballistics terms. Maybe if your definition of "power" is something meaningless like Kenetic energy or velocity.

I'll take an M1 Carbine loaded with Remington 110Gn JSP and a stack of spare mags over an SKS anyday for the carbine's higher capacity, better sights, faster reloads and better terminal performance.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:29:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
A man with a dirty SKS has a big advantage over a man with a clean M1 Carbine.



???

At least two of my M1 Carbines were war bring-backs..neither had ever had their gas tappet cleaned after being staked on at the factory.

Both run just perfectly fine with 60 years of gunk under it.

The only reliability problem I've EVER encountered with an M1 Carbine is that they like to chew through extractors. Easy to fix and replace.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:30:50 AM EDT
Own both. M1 is a plinker at best. Never had decent accuracy from mine. It is light and in the side fold paratrooper version a real light compact package. Mags always seemed to be a real problem. About 1 in 5 would fail to feed properly and up to a few years ago were expensive for the 30 rounders and the 15's were not much better. Ammo was also dear up to a few years ago and then the Koreans opened the floodgates. Spare parts are available but seem to be a little high compared with the AK.
IMHO the AK or SKS is a much better way to go even with the "sky high" prices today for Wolf. Mags are available at any gun show as is the ammo. Accuuracy is acceptable and when the ammo is as cheap as Wolf you don't have to chase the brass. The AK is designed to function in some pretty rough environments and the M1 carbine just doesn't seem to have the same toughness built in.
M1 round is a 25 acp in a world of cals that begin with 4. It can stop but placement is more critical. By the way, the 30 carbine Blackhawk is a real hoot and is really accurate.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:31:37 AM EDT
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.

some GI's quickly traded it in for a better weapon, like a M1 Garand or Tommy gun

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:33:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 9:34:14 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By NumbNut:
Own both. M1 is a plinker at best. Never had decent accuracy from mine.


Mine will shoot 3/4 inch groups at 50meters. Even using it as my trunk gun i doubt I'll be using it at ranges farther than that.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:37:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:38:02 AM EDT
You can shoot a lot more ammo through the SKS for the money.

However, the sights on SKSs are absolutely abysmal. The M1 sights are decent.

I have put a number of rounds through the M1 carbine, don't currently own one, but would like to some day. The M1 Carbine I shot probably had in excess of 10k rounds through it and would shoot 6 inch groups at 100 yards with milsurp ammo.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:38:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Since there are no commercial copies of the SKS, we'll assume you meant copies of the M1 Carbine.

Both are good weapons, but I'd think the SKS would have the edge on reliability. They're tough as nails and very robust. The chances of getting a perfectly working SKS vs. a perfectly working commercial copy M1 Carbine are probably better.

That said, both are fun little rifles. The SKS should be considered more powerful, t hough. Ammo is cheaper. Accuracy would probably be about the same with both.

And in the spirit of ARFCOM, I declare, you should

GET BOTH



+1 that is the only answer.

The SKS is more powerful, the Carbine is a piece of history and is extremely small and easy to use...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:39:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
Lets hear it all - lets talk commercial copies

Durability
Reliability
Pr­ice
Ammo
Caliber

the whole nine yards



What do you mean by 'commercial'? There are some nonmil Carbines on the market and I heard they arent as good in many ways as the mil version. Also mil parts dont always fit the nonmil versions. If you havea choice get the mil version....which is the version I assume in the stuff which follows.

That said Ive experience w/ a Russain SKS and mil M1....lots of range time. I think it all depends on what youre planning to use the weapon for.

Both are very durable and parts are easy to get for both. Both are also fairly easy to work on. I think the M1 is somewhat more refined and a great piece of our countries history.

Both are very reliable and always fire when the trigger is pulled. The SKS can wind up doubling (or more) if its not kept clean. The firing pin gets wedged and fires the next round as the bolt slams forward. Its no big deal if you clean/lube after each range session. Ive never had this sort of problem w/ an M1 or any problem for that matter. I also havent raked them thru the mud either so have not idea how well they do w/ grit and gunk.

The SKS will be less expensive. M1s can be a hot collector item and as such will command higher prices.

30 Carbine is going to be more expensive in general. The good news is that you can get the reloading components for it easily and also there should be some milsurp still on the market. There are also some interesting bullets for it. I did some reloads using once fired mil brass and they ran really good!!! I used carbide dies which made resizing quick.

While both are 30 cal the 7.62 commie that the SKS uses is going to be much more powerful. The 30 Carbine I think its roughly equivalent to a 357 Mag. I believe thats correct. If not Im sure someone will jump in w/ a correction. I dont think it would be terribly effective on a human target past 75 yds...although Ive never tryed it in that way.

As I said above what youre doing w/ the rifle will dictate which you get (I know get both). The M1 is lighter and far more handy. It would be good for shooting at indoor distances (not long range). You also shouldnt expect it to defeat obstilcles in the same way the 30 cal commie would. The later is going to give excellent penetration at a MUCH farther distance.

The SKS has a fixed mag which holds 10 rounds. The Carbine mag is removable and can be had in 15 and 30 rds sizes. If your thinking along the lines of 'tactical' reloads then youll want to strip up your ammo for the SKS. It has a clip cut in the bolt carrier that makes loading off a stripper pretty quick. Strippers for the M1 can also be had and have the charger built in which makes reloading magazines very fast. Carbine mags are still easy to get and are very inexpensive.

Both rifles can be accessorized w/ various bits and pieces. The SKS probably has many more available than the Carbine. As a stock weapon the Carbine is a pretty complete and really doesnt need much.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:40:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 9:43:16 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
7.62x39 is more powerful...



Not if you define power in wound ballistics terms. Maybe if your definition of "power" is something meaningless like Kenetic energy or velocity.

I'll take an M1 Carbine loaded with Remington 110Gn JSOP and a stack of spare mags over an SKS anyday. higher capacity, better sights, faster reloads and better terminal performance.


i'm talking strictly in standard noncombat type measurements like velocity and foot pounds, whatever that's called. i'm assuming he's not deploying to iraq or sierra leone.

some other tips on the sks: it comes with a 10rd fixed mag or a 20rd fixed mag (chicom police). both are good and reliable. there are a variety of after-market 10, 20, 30, 50 rd mags but they can be problematic. axe folks here for good models and hope they'll work in yours.

same goes with after-market stocks. pachmayr, choate make excellent stocks including folders but ad tec (ati) and fiberforce make crap. check out tapco, they have more sks add ons; some good, some not so...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:47:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:06:01 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Since there are no commercial copies of the SKS, we'll assume you meant copies of the M1 Carbine.

Both are good weapons, but I'd think the SKS would have the edge on reliability. They're tough as nails and very robust. The chances of getting a perfectly working SKS vs. a perfectly working commercial copy M1 Carbine are probably better.

That said, both are fun little rifles. The SKS should be considered more powerful, t hough. Ammo is cheaper. Accuracy would probably be about the same with both.

And in the spirit of ARFCOM, I declare, you should

GET BOTH



Yep, get both. I did.

Actually, danpass, you said you already have an M1 Carbine, so where's the question. Add an SKS to your collection.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:47:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:

Originally Posted By danpass:
Lets hear it all - lets talk commercial copies

Durability
Reliability
Pr­ice
Ammo
Caliber

the whole nine yards



What do you mean by 'commercial'? There are some nonmil Carbines on the market and I heard they arent as good in many ways as the mil version. Also mil parts dont always fit the nonmil versions. If you havea choice get the mil version....which is the version I assume in the stuff which follows.

That said Ive experience w/ a Russain SKS and mil M1....lots of range time. I think it all depends on what youre planning to use the weapon for.

Both are very durable and parts are easy to get for both. Both are also fairly easy to work on. I think the M1 is somewhat more refined and a great piece of our countries history.

Both are very reliable and always fire when the trigger is pulled. The SKS can wind up doubling (or more) if its not kept clean. The firing pin gets wedged and fires the next round as the bolt slams forward. Its no big deal if you clean/lube after each range session. Ive never had this sort of problem w/ an M1 or any problem for that matter. I also havent raked them thru the mud either so have not idea how well they do w/ grit and gunk.

The SKS will be less expensive. M1s can be a hot collector item and as such will command higher prices.

30 Carbine is going to be more expensive in general. The good news is that you can get the reloading components for it easily and also there should be some milsurp still on the market. There are also some interesting bullets for it. I did some reloads using once fired mil brass and they ran really good!!! I used carbide dies which made resizing quick.

While both are 30 cal the 7.62 commie that the SKS uses is going to be much more powerful. The 30 Carbine I think its roughly equivalent to a 357 Mag. I believe thats correct. If not Im sure someone will jump in w/ a correction.



Doctor GK Roberts conclusions:

"The best ammunition choice for the M1 Carbine is the Remington 110 gr JSP (R30CAR)—at an average velocity of 1864 f/s, it expands to .54” to .58” and penetrates 13” to 16” whether in bare gelatin, through automobile windshields, or Level IIIa body armor. This is as good as the best .223’s. M1 carbines have a poor reputation when using GI ball ammo, but good expanding bullets offer a stunning leap in incapacitation potential and should cause us to rethink the M1 carbine as a law enforcement patrol rifle.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.



That "boxotruth" does not address the .30 Carbine round. I am not saying that the thing about the Chicoms is true or not, just pointing out that the page you linked to does not address that.

Yeah, they mentioned it at the bottom of the page, but they did not test it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:05:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
both durable
both reliable
sks is MUCH cheaper
sks ammo is much cheaper and plentiful
7.62x39 is more powerful.



I can agree with almost everything he said.
However, 7.62 is in short supply, and expensive right now,
On the other hand WOLF makes .30 these days

So we sorta negate the ammo cost/availability aspects...

The M1 Carbine is quite a bit more expensive, a Yugo SKS can be had for $79-$89
I wish I could find a cheapish M1, even a copy $400+ it seems.

Next consider, the M1 is a part of OUR history. My Grandfather fought with one in WW2, therefore it has considerably more historic/sentimental value to me.

The SKS is very cheap right now, and there is no reason not to own one.

M1 Carbines are not cheap, and you want one thats milspec. Theres good reason not to own some of the copies, considering GI replacement parts may not fit.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:08:51 AM EDT
I have the M1 carbine, sure the SKS is cheaper and so is the ammo, but I like the idea that I shoot what many soldiers used in WWII and the Korean War, a little in the Vietnam War. I quess it's the novelty. And of coarse it's fun................
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:09:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.



That reputation came from trying to use it as a main battle rifle at distances out to 600 yds. When used for what it was intended , midrange distances out to 200 yds, it does just fine.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:19:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:20:31 AM EDT by gonzo_beyondo]
Oh, and for what it's worth...
I find the AK47 to be the best buy, for a few different reasons... a big one being magazines.

Then consider size, and the 7.62x39mm, and I believe that it's better suited for the business at medium range... than either the M1 or SKS. It's also priced inbetween them.

I consider the AK to be the best choice, not a compromise. Loose tolerances make it quite rugged in any situation.

And not to slam the AR15, but that is more expensive than the other three rifles/carbines could be had for... and .223 is also a cost/availability factor so, as far as ammo is concerned I'd say it's pretty much a wash since Wolf makes all three.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:26:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Since there are no commercial copies of the SKS, we'll assume you meant copies of the M1 Carbine.

Both are good weapons, but I'd think the SKS would have the edge on reliability. They're tough as nails and very robust. The chances of getting a perfectly working SKS vs. a perfectly working commercial copy M1 Carbine are probably better.

That said, both are fun little rifles. The SKS should be considered more powerful, t hough. Ammo is cheaper. Accuracy would probably be about the same with both.

And in the spirit of ARFCOM, I declare, you should

GET BOTH



Yep, get both. I did.

Actually, danpass, you said you already have an M1 Carbine, so where's the question. Add an SKS to your collection.




Whether or not its worth getting an SKS as my go-to gun in a CHTF situation. I like the bigger round (.30/7.62) over a .223.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:40:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I can tell you right off the bat that the SKS is cheaper and fires better ammo.



Question answered!......................there you go!

The Yugo SKS's that I've seen are high quality and some are new........

Buy some stripper clips and learn to use them!!!!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:43:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
Oh, and for what it's worth...
I find the AK47 to be the best buy, for a few different reasons... a big one being magazines.

Then consider size, and the 7.62x39mm, and I believe that it's better suited for the business at medium range... than either the M1 or SKS. It's also priced inbetween them.

I consider the AK to be the best choice, not a compromise. Loose tolerances make it quite rugged in any situation.

And not to slam the AR15, but that is more expensive than the other three rifles/carbines could be had for... and .223 is also a cost/availability factor so, as far as ammo is concerned I'd say it's pretty much a wash since Wolf makes all three.




The SKS is far more accurate than an AK. Besides, I just don't like the AK.

As for .223/5.56 ammo, where do you get that that availability is a factor or even cost? I can buy 500 rounds of .223 from Georgia Arms for $90 right now. Now, that may be more than surplus cost, but I don't have to worry about whether I get a good batch or not.

Besides, his question was a choice between the SKS and an M1 Carbine, so the AK does not even factor in.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:46:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.

some GI's quickly traded it in for a better weapon, like a M1 Garand or Tommy gun




Sound familiar? People claim the M4 is no good against terrorists hopped up on drugs.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:57:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.



That "boxotruth" does not address the .30 Carbine round. I am not saying that the thing about the Chicoms is true or not, just pointing out that the page you linked to does not address that.

Yeah, they mentioned it at the bottom of the page, but they did not test it.



From the Box O' Truth #8 (the page AR15fan linked):




Rumors had it that the .30 Carbine had problems penetrating the thick clothing of the North Koreans during the Korean War.

Let's see what happens.



The bullet, a military Ball, went through the entire box set-up, blew up the water jug, and flattened itself out against the solid concrete block, knocking out a big chunk of cement.




Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:07:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zrxc77:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.



That "boxotruth" does not address the .30 Carbine round. I am not saying that the thing about the Chicoms is true or not, just pointing out that the page you linked to does not address that.

Yeah, they mentioned it at the bottom of the page, but they did not test it.



From the Box O' Truth #8 (the page AR15fan linked):




Rumors had it that the .30 Carbine had problems penetrating the thick clothing of the North Koreans during the Korean War.

Let's see what happens.

www.theboxotruth.com/images/8-11.jpg

The bullet, a military Ball, went through the entire box set-up, blew up the water jug, and flattened itself out against the solid concrete block, knocking out a big chunk of cement.

www.theboxotruth.com/images/8-12.jpg





Oops, I guess I scrolled right past that picture. My bad.

One thing however. Again, I don't know if the Chicom thing is true, but the clothing used in that demo was nowhere near as thick as the padding that the Chicoms wore. Some of that stuff was at least a couple inches thick and not nearly as loosely packed as the demo material.

I don't know if it is true or not. I have an Inland, as well as 3 SKSs, and I would trust the Carbine every bit as much as the SKSs.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:48:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Oops, I guess I scrolled right past that picture. My bad.

One thing however. Again, I don't know if the Chicom thing is true, but the clothing used in that demo was nowhere near as thick as the padding that the Chicoms wore. Some of that stuff was at least a couple inches thick and not nearly as loosely packed as the demo material.

I don't know if it is true or not. I have an Inland, as well as 3 SKSs, and I would trust the Carbine every bit as much as the SKSs.


I wasn't making any claims one way or the other either. I don't have enough expertise to do so. I was just letting you know that you overlooked the test shot.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:27:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zrxc77:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Oops, I guess I scrolled right past that picture. My bad.

One thing however. Again, I don't know if the Chicom thing is true, but the clothing used in that demo was nowhere near as thick as the padding that the Chicoms wore. Some of that stuff was at least a couple inches thick and not nearly as loosely packed as the demo material.

I don't know if it is true or not. I have an Inland, as well as 3 SKSs, and I would trust the Carbine every bit as much as the SKSs.


I wasn't making any claims one way or the other either. I don't have enough expertise to do so. I was just letting you know that you overlooked the test shot.



I understand that. Lighten up. I guess I was just wondering out loud, so to speak.

As I said, I trust my M1 Carbine as much as my SKSs.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:53:19 PM EDT
I have a Yugo SKS and a Blue-Sky re-import M1 Carbine.

Both are fun weapons, but the little carbine fits real nice behind the seat in the pickup, is fast to get on target with, etc.

I don't feel under-armed having it bouncing around in the truck with me.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:00:29 PM EDT
If I had to bet my life on either one, I would pick the M1 carbine.

I can hit a man sized target at 300 yards with mine. That is good enough accuracy for me. I also belive that getting hit with a .30 carbine soft point will put most men down instantly.

Magazines change out fast also.......

Remember, you are going to have to carry the rifle a hell of a lot more than you will ever shoot it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:06:54 PM EDT
There's no way I would trust the combloc weapon over my M1 carbine. It's light, fast, accurate, and much more handy, plus it's just dead nuts reliable. I can carry a pile of 15 or 30 round magazines, for fast reloads.

Then there's the whole "I will not carry a weapon designed to kill Americans" thing...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:39:26 PM EDT
With appropriate ammo selection either one is a good self defense carbine. Sadly most people will never make the effort to learn what the better performing rounds in the tow calibers are, and istead will handicap their chances with the cheapest ball they can find.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:50:11 PM EDT
The M1 is a powerful semiautomatic subgun. It's a blast to shoot. The SKS is a rifle.

The M1 carbine is very underrated and suffers because people compare it to medium to long range rifles. It has the same power of a .357 yet how many people claim that's underpowered. It's a formidable weapon at urban/jungle combat ranges.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:52:29 PM EDT
M-1 Carbine. But get a GI one. Commercial copies can be a crap shoot but I've never seen an unreliable GI carbine.

As was already said, the detachable mags are nice and you won't have a problem with them as long as you stick to GI mags. Most who bitch about mags are buying cheap POS aftermarket thirty rounders. Just get 15 round GI mags, they are cheaper and easier to find. 15 round detachable mags are still a leap ahead for the carbine over the SKS.

SKS's are ugly and much heavier plus they have no resale value. GI carbines will double in 5 years and are very light and accurate if you find one with a good barrel. Use softpoints and it will stop anyone.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:10:17 PM EDT
If you want a SKS find a decent Norinco or Yugo, very nice if not excellent Yugo's can be found at Aim Surplus darn cheap with Excellent service to boot.I own Norinco's,Yugo and a prized Russian Tula hope this helps.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:23:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By DienBienPhu54:
during the Korean war, the M1 carbine had a reputation as being a poor stopper, GI's firing M1 carbines at Chinese troops wearing heavy quilted winter uniforms.





www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm


BTW: the NYPD stackout squad reported the .30 Carbine was a better stopper than 12 Guage buckshot.



That reputation came from trying to use it as a main battle rifle at distances out to 600 yds. When used for what it was intended , midrange distances out to 200 yds, it does just fine.



+1

Dont forget that in the bone chilling weather, our guys were shivering, and firing those M2s on full auto. I'm sure that when fired full auto and while being cold, you are gonna miss the target with most of your rounds.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:25:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:27:11 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Anyone ever see one of those 16" polytech(?) SKS that came with the olive colored Butler creek stock and grey pakerized finish?

I got one around 1995. Much nicer handling than my standard SKS as the stock give it a better LOP than the chicom wood.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 4:57:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Tag.


Although I can tell you right off the bat that the SKS is cheaper and fires better ammo.



Define better?

The common Reminton 110Gn JSP .30 carbine load outperforms most 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm loads even trough body armor and auto glass.

www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000084#000000


The only 7.62x39 load that performs as well or better is the Lapua megaspire point which is near impossible to find since midsouth stopped selling it.





My comment was strictly that, in general, 7.62x39mm is considered a far better anti-personnel round than the .30 Carbine.

I'm no expert in ballistics. I'm simply stating what I've heard from those who know more than I.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:04:35 PM EDT
I must be missing something here . . .

SKS rifles run somewhere between $100 and $200 depending on country of origin and condition. Ammo is dirt cheap.

M1 Carbines (G.I. issues anyway) are higher than a cat's back. You can almost buy an AR for what folks are asking for decent M1 Carbines these days. We're talking at least $500 and possibly even as high as $700 or $800. Also, ammo is expensive for the M1 Carbine.

Doesn't seem like a realistic comparison to me.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:12:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Anyone ever see one of those 16" polytech(?) SKS that came with the olive colored Butler creek stock and grey pakerized finish?

I got one around 1995. Much nicer handling than my standard SKS as the stock give it a better LOP than the chicom wood.



I've never seen the 16" Polytech SKS you are referring to, but have you had a chance to try out the Yugo SKS's. They definitely handle nicely, more so than the 'chicom wood' you refer to.

BTW, thanks for posting the M-1 Carbine info. I didn't realize how well it performs with the soft points. I learn something useful every time I come to this site.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:02:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
I must be missing something here . . .

SKS rifles run somewhere between $100 and $200 depending on country of origin and condition. Ammo is dirt cheap.

M1 Carbines (G.I. issues anyway) are higher than a cat's back. You can almost buy an AR for what folks are asking for decent M1 Carbines these days. We're talking at least $500 and possibly even as high as $700 or $800. Also, ammo is expensive for the M1 Carbine.

Doesn't seem like a realistic comparison to me.



First, if it a USGI carbine, there is some history involved.

Second, I don't know if I would want one of these $500 ARs.

Third, I don't consider $95.00 for 500 rounds (new ammo, not surplus) expensive.

I have both. While my SKSs are a blast to shoot and very reliable, I would grab the M1 Carbine in an emergency if those were my only choices.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top