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Posted: 2/3/2006 3:16:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 3:28:56 AM EDT by cheaptrickfan]
Hmmm.... the guy just happened to find an MP40 with an extra barrel lying in a ditch??
(okay, I believe it, but I want to by the Brooklyn bridge too!)

Couldn't have been an Arfcommer that dropped it, after all, our guns fell out of a boat!!

eta: I figure he either got the weapon through some trade (drugs, whatever), or it was a bring-back from a relative. Either way, a very collectable piece of history will, once again, be destroyed.

full story


Man convicted on machine gun charge
By MICHAEL A. SCARCELLA

michael.scarcella@heraldtribune.com
BRADENTON -- When authorities raided Genaro Agustin Jr.'s house last year, they were looking for drugs. What they found was a piece of history.

Snug inside a duffel bag was a World War II-era, German-made MP40 machine gun that Agustin said he found years ago in a ditch on his way home from school.

Agustin, 21, swears he never fired the weapon because it didn't work. But just having one is illegal, and a jury on Thursday convicted him on a machine gun possession charge.

He said he found the gun near the 5700 block of Second Street West in Bradenton. Agustin brushed off the dirt and cleaned up the piece.

"Nothing worked. It was old, rusted. That's it. You know what I'm saying?" Agustin told the jury, explaining that he planned to keep the gun as a souvenir.

A sheriff's deputy testified that the gun's barrel was welded shut. But a spare barrel that apparently accompanied the gun in the ditch was not jammed.

Agustin's attorney, Connie Mederos-Jacobs, argued that after authorities seized the gun they tampered with it -- switching the barrels because they were "desperate" for a conviction.

Prosecutor Garrett Franzen said there was no evidence to support that.

And he didn't buy Agustin's story about finding the gun on the roadside with a spare barrel and an ammunition clip one afternoon.

"This is not somewhere in Europe in 1944 where that might be possible," Franzen said in court.

The six-person jury deliberated for less than an hour before finding that even though the gun didn't work, it could have been readily made operable.

Manatee County sheriff's detectives had turned over the weapon to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms for analysis.

An ATF agent with years of gunsmith experience got the thing shooting in about half an hour, Franzen said.

The MP40 was the most common machine gun used by the Germans during World War II, according to several gun-related Web sites. It can fire its whole clip in seconds. Just pull and hold the trigger.

The machine gun charge and conviction are rare, prosecutors say.

But Agustin has a bigger problem right now.

Sarasota police arrested and charged him in the murder of a 21-year-old man outside Club Envy in Sarasota in October.

The authorities say Agustin stabbed the man multiple times in a large fight. Several others were injured in the brawl.

He'll be sentenced on the machine gun charge after the murder case wraps up.



Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:24:29 AM EDT
I don't buy the story about how he found it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:27:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
I don't buy the story about how he found it.


Especially since the other pending charge against him speaks volumes about his character.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:30:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 3:36:42 AM EDT by dvr9]
Yo Yo your hona, it ain't workin', see what I'm sayin?

Ya see wha happen wuz, my footz tripped ova it in a ditch, see wha I'm sayin?

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:30:45 AM EDT
I wanna know where it REALLY came from.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
I wanna know where it REALLY came from.



Germany?


Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:39:47 AM EDT
Those shoot great in that new XboX game,Big Red 1
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:40:47 AM EDT
if I found one in a ditch I would keep it too.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:41:01 AM EDT
So, let me get this straight, he possesses a machine gun but stabs a guy to death (with a knife presumably) and the machine gun is the object that is dangerous?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:41:53 AM EDT
They shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Machine guns that is.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:43:21 AM EDT
To destroy that weapon would be an unforgivable sin.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:45:16 AM EDT
That's a shame anyway you look at it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:47:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghetto:
Those shoot great in that new XboX game,Big Red 1



The real ones do too!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:55:27 AM EDT
Maybe it fell out of an ice cream truck.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:16:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 4:16:40 AM EDT by Hellhound]
From the article:

"Nothing worked. It was old, rusted. That's it. You know what I'm saying?" Agustin told the jury, explaining that he planned to keep the gun as a souvenir."

I fucking hate that phrase.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:19:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
From the article:

"Nothing worked. It was old, rusted. That's it. You know what I'm saying?" Agustin told the jury, explaining that he planned to keep the gun as a souvenir."

I fucking hate that phrase.



Me, TOO!!! ( Kno wat Ah'm sayin', G.? )
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:19:52 AM EDT

An ATF agent with years of gunsmith experience got the thing shooting in about half an hour by using a shoe string, Franzen said.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:22:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

An ATF agent with years of gunsmith experience got the thing shooting in about half an hour by using a shoe string, Franzen said.







Probably an armorer with files, dremel, pins, and a $50,000 work shop.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:58:33 AM EDT
HEY! thats mine... I lost it in a "boating accident".
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:01:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:15:50 AM EDT
The unfortunate part, thanks to the assholes in gov...it doesn't matter if that gun was found in possession of who it was, a hard core collector, or the vet who brought it home, it would be destroyed regardless, since there is no way to make it legal...

Unless they can maybe find a museum home for it, but doubtful....
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:24:26 AM EDT
PLEASE tell me that will go to a museum and not a blowtorch!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:25:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
PLEASE tell me that will go to a museum and not a blowtorch!




Bet it gets this treatment

Fricken shame.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:25:58 AM EDT
Obviously this guy was up to no good.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:39:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 5:40:20 AM EDT by SIG_220]
There was a guy here in OK that found a sterling or some other type of old smg sticking/lying in some mud at lake thunderbird. He didn't know what it was so he took it to a gun store and asked and they told him to destroy it ASAP. I don't know if it is true or not as I was not there.

I imagine some redneck built it and then got nervous about having it around.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:41:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:48:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 5:51:19 AM EDT by gonzo_beyondo]

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
The unfortunate part, thanks to the assholes in gov...it doesn't matter if that gun was found in possession of who it was, a hard core collector, or the vet who brought it home, it would be destroyed regardless, since there is no way to make it legal...



Actually this is more than unfortunate, it's pretty damn troubling...
The gun was a "dummy"... it has a plugged barrel according to that article.

Now lets suppose for a moment we have a parts kit. We have a reciever, hell lets say an 80%, yet it's made in modified format so as to facilitate a semi-auto build, but... can you PROVE it?

My point is, a law abiding individual could be charged this same way, if he had a demilled rifle, but some extra parts, and the hopes he could obtain, maybe not immediately but in the future, the remaining necessary parts to build a semi-auto.

Now fuck this homeboy, he's a criminal for the stabbing and gets NO quarter from me, but I don't like the precedent being set here... unrelated to the person, only to the state of said "machine gun".


Unless they can maybe find a museum home for it, but doubtful....


Joking? Since when are museums safe from the BATFE? Or any of us, for that matter.

Truth be told, this is why I stay away from dummy guns and alot of the part kits that are out there. ANYTHING can be made to fire in a $50,000.00 lab. I can make a 2x4 fire on my kitchen table for fuck sake.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:51:25 AM EDT
I hope it finds a good home besides the smelter.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:58:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:16:44 AM EDT by gonzo_beyondo]
I wonder if this was'nt a legally owned dewat that this POS stole out of someone's house?

It would explain it's existence in the first place.
Also, interesting article about that here...


Ironically, the people who are most likely to be victimized by ATF in future DEWAT situations such as experienced by Mr. Crane are those who have only done their best to follow the law, by applying for the transfer of an NFA firearm for which they have the valid registration document, as did the lawful heir. People who own these DEWATs, and their lawful heirs, have the right to know that ATF is trying to seize their property illegally.



You might also want to note the following-

80% MP40 recievers
Combine that with this functioning replica and are you facing charges?
And by that logic, how would it differ from this , this , or for that matter, this ?

Our Replica "Dummy" Guns are made with the original Military Issued Parts and assembled on a non-firing synthetic receiver, making them inoperable display guns. Fully legal to own and requires no license to purchase. Thats a "Samopal vzor 1958 (submachine gun, model of 1958)"

Alot of guys are buying the $19.97 Suomi kits, intending to build.
I don't really see the difference here.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:08:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:10:11 AM EDT by jimtash9]

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
The unfortunate part, thanks to the assholes in gov...it doesn't matter if that gun was found in possession of who it was, a hard core collector, or the vet who brought it home, it would be destroyed regardless, since there is no way to make it legal...



Actually this is more than unfortunate, it's pretty damn troubling...
The gun was a "dummy"... it has a plugged barrel according to that article.

Now lets suppose for a moment we have a parts kit. We have a reciever, hell lets say an 80%, yet it's made in modified format so as to facilitate a semi-auto build, but... can you PROVE it?

My point is, a law abiding individual could be charged this same way, if he had a demilled rifle, but some extra parts, and the hopes he could obtain, maybe not immediately but in the future, the remaining necessary parts to build a semi-auto.

Now fuck this homeboy, he's a criminal for the stabbing and gets NO quarter from me, but I don't like the precedent being set here... unrelated to the person, only to the state of said "machine gun".


Unless they can maybe find a museum home for it, but doubtful....


Joking? Since when are museums safe from the BATFE? Or any of us, for that matter.

Truth be told, this is why I stay away from dummy guns and alot of the part kits that are out there. ANYTHING can be made to fire in a $50,000.00 lab. I can make a 2x4 fire on my kitchen table for fuck sake.



I agree 100%. Afterall, they can charge you in possesion of a MG with a shoestring so there's nothing there that doesn't lead me to believe they won't try and do the same with a parts kit. I guess it all depends on what kind of mood these jackasses are in on any given day.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:08:53 AM EDT
I live in Bradenton and have been somewhat following this. The kid is dirtbag fucking gang banger and deserves the needle.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:11:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I hope it finds a good home besides the smelter.



IIRC, the only way it could be legally kept would be to have it transferred to a law enforcement agency.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:14:46 AM EDT
Check-out the trigger fingers on these guys. Did they have that trigger disipline way back then?

http://www.sproe.com/images/screenshots/mp40-01-large.jpg
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:14:46 AM EDT
Everyone has a machine gun but me.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:18:45 AM EDT
Please re-read my edit, I've provided some links to illustrate my point.

I'm thinking this is something we need to take real serious. I'm hoping someone will be able to shed some light on the important fact I'm missing here. In this case I'd much rather look like a jackass than be absolutely correct!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:20:40 AM EDT
More news about "clips".

You know, why can't that be used as a technicality in a trial to get it thrown out. If the cop doesn't know what a clip is then how can he be an expert on anything else?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:10:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
I live in Bradenton and have been somewhat following this. The kid is dirtbag fucking gang banger and deserves the needle.

No shit ? How is home ?
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