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Posted: 2/2/2006 5:00:26 PM EDT
No, I don’t mean Kinkos… I mean an actual FedEx building.

I had some blue shirted garden gnome tell me today: “You have to be a firearms dealer to ship firearms.” This after I showed him the FFL of the dealer I was shipping to. I just stood there for a sec and then took a short drive to the UPS about three blocks away.

This is the second bad expirence I’ve had with these people in less than two months. FedEx is totally shitlisted with me. I will never voluntarily use them again.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:02:43 PM EDT
you could just do what I do, box it up, print your own label at home tape it on and drop it off at a fedex location.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:04:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 5:05:00 PM EDT by _DR]

Doesn't sound right.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:04:53 PM EDT
Repeat after me "machine parts"
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:11:05 PM EDT
Do one of two things.

1. Use the preprinted ship from home labels or
2. Print out and bring to Fedex the appropriate page from the Fedex tariff (Fedex or Fedex ground), which can be found on the Fedex website, and underline the portions. When the counter grinch denies you, make him eat his words.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:11:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 5:12:39 PM EDT by Sub-MOA]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Repeat after me "machine parts"



Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Don't you have to notify them that it is a firearm...? I've always thought that you did because of the fees involved.

ETA: Just in case your "machine parts" get stolen by the garden gnome.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:14:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
2. Print out and bring to Fedex the appropriate page from the Fedex tariff (Fedex or Fedex ground), which can be found on the Fedex website, and underline the portions. When the counter grinch denies you, make him eat his words.



I wish I had been that well prepared.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:20:32 PM EDT
the way those fucktards drive , its not suprising!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:25:06 PM EDT
I dont ship guns.
I only pick em up at my FFL.

I have heard with FedEx, UPS, and USPS... that this shit happens ALL THE TIME.

Now I know one guy who found out you can ship USPS. Don't ask me how he does it, I don't know and I don't wanna know but he does, and 3-day Priority saves him much cash... so he's real happy.

I've read marking packages "firearm" greatly increases odds of theft, and many people swear to never do it. I don't ship firearms so I dunno.

You can also have alot of fun trying to ship ammo thru any of the three carriers.


Printing out their regs on whatever your shipping is a real good idea. People run into problems daily, I know, they post about em like you did
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:26:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Repeat after me "machine parts"


Till it gets stolen and you have to file a claim.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:00:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 6:21:42 PM EDT by _DR]
A. If they ask, you inform them the contents are not on their list of prohibited items. That's all they need to know.

B. You insure it for replacement cost.

C. You ensure that YOU are legal (IE sending it to an FFL who has sent you a copy of his license).

D. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER Write that the package contains a firearm on the outside of the box, unless you are expressly trying to have it stolen. This is tempting fate.


You should not put a gun a drop box.
You cannot ship out of the US.
You must follow existing federal and state firearms laws.


You cannot send anything on this list.

Prohibited Hazardous Materials

CLASS NAME LABEL CODE/LABEL
1.1 Explosives 1.1/Explosive 1.1
1.2 Explosives 1.2/Explosive 1.2
1.3 Explosives 1.3/Explosive 1.3
1.5 Explosives 1.5/Explosive 1.5
2.3 Poisonous Gas 2.3/Poisonous Gas
4.2 Spontaneously Combustible Material 4.2/Spontaneously Combustible
4.3* Dangerous When Wet 4.3/Dangerous When Wet
6.1 Poisonous Materials (Inhalation Hazards) 6.1/Poison
6.1* Poisonous Materials (Non-Inhalation Hazards) 6.1/Poison
6.2 Infectious Substance 6.2/Infectious Substance
7 Radioactive Material II and III 7/Radioactive Yellow II & III


OK. So what's the big deal. You get upset when you tell some icounter guy getting minimum wage something he doesn't need to know, and he freaks.

A little common sense goes a long way.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:03:08 PM EDT
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:12:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 6:22:25 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.



Show me this law you speak of and it's source.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:19:11 PM EDT
I just use fed ex.com. I have my own account. No fee for the account you just have it billed to a cc and you can get the supplies at any fed ex box.
List value at what it really is. Put it in a fed Ex shipping box. I have dropped it off at the Fed Ex depot no problems. However the fed ex facility was posted no ccw.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:27:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.



Show me this law you speak of and it's source.



I'll do it for him:

SOURCE
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:27:52 PM EDT
So can someone post the applicable FedEx and ATF regs on this? I had the same problem trying to ship guns with these jokers, and it would be GREAT to have the paperwork to rub in their faces.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 6:32:54 PM EDT by rcoers]

Originally Posted By Beltfedleadhead:
So can someone post the applicable FedEx and ATF regs on this? I had the same problem trying to ship guns with these jokers, and it would be GREAT to have the paperwork to rub in their faces.



Found this from FedEx's website, it's their policy:

Firearms

FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: (1) you agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by local, state or federal regulations; (2) the shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law.

Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. or with a signature release. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx is required to notify the FedEx employee who accepts the package that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

You also agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the samepackage. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:31:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.



Show me this law you speak of and it's source.


from the BATFE website:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.



Bullshit. But, if it makes you feel any better, common bullshit.

The citation the BATFE uses to claim it's illegal to ship without informing the carrier says nothing like that. This has been brought up before on this (I believe) and other boards. Both 18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31 deal with the SHIPPERS obligations under federal law (i.e. it is illegal for a shipper to knowingly ship a firearm to someone not authorized to receive it), and with your obligation to notify the shipper if you're shipping it to someone OTHER than someone authorized to receive it.

Here's 18 USC 922 a.2.A:

a. It shall be unlawful:
2. for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector;



See any reference there to not informing the carrier?

Here's 27 CFR 178.31:


178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.



My empahsis added.

But, don't take my word for it. Here's the BATF's OWN interpretation.




So, you might be violating FedEx or UPS policy, but not the law.

Scott
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:46:20 PM EDT

Thank you for clarifying that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:48:49 PM EDT
Never had them refuse to ship a gun, but I sure as hell had them drop off a handgun on my front porch and leave it. I had sent a handgun back to the manufacturer........when they shipped it back FedEx just decided to leave it on the doorstep while I was at work. Of course it was stolen. The only way I figured it out was that the gun had been gone like 3 months.....when I contacted the manufacturer they provided me with the tracking number and sure enough, it had been left on my door step about 7 weeks prior. I don't even want to get into how that one got settled!!!!


-REAPER2502
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paul1911:
However the fed ex facility was posted no ccw. hr


Yeah, Fedex has some anti-gun company policies, similar to those of Weyerhauser and ConocoPhillips (if you've been following the NRA stories). It isn't well known, but it's true. I'm surprised they even accept firearms shipments.

Also true: Fedex reserves the right to open and inspect any package in their possesion.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:10:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
No, I don’t mean Kinkos… I mean an actual FedEx building.

I had some blue shirted garden gnome tell me today: “You have to be a firearms dealer to ship firearms.” This after I showed him the FFL of the dealer I was shipping to. I just stood there for a sec and then took a short drive to the UPS about three blocks away.

This is the second bad expirence I’ve had with these people in less than two months. FedEx is totally shitlisted with me. I will never voluntarily use them again.



I just did today. Overnight express. Even declared it as a firearm. FedEx policy is that the weapon be rendered inoperable by disassembly, so that if someone opened the package, they would not be able to use said firearm without first having to reassemble it. I know, kinda dumb, but they still ship firearms. If the clerk behind the counter says no, tell him to get 1-800-Go-FedEx on the phone. I called first to make sure, and was even told the closest drop-off facility.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:14:32 PM EDT
Remember, you can use Fedex ground for long guns and machineguns.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:17:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Remember, you can use Fedex ground for long guns and machineguns.




they shipped probaly 5-10 for me ground, even taped them up there. then one day they said they done ship guns, never have.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:26:11 PM EDT
Had the same problem a while back. I politely explained to the gent that he was wrong and perhaps he should call someone who actually knew FedX policies. I was sending a M14 to a Border Patrol Agent's FFL in AZ via FedX Ground. He agreed and responded, "oh, I guess you were right". Then he asked me if anything in the container was liquid, perishable or hazardous. Geez.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:35:11 PM EDT
I print my own label. I clearly identify what is in the package, or fudge a bit, but still identifiable. That satisfies their need to be "notified". It doesn't say verbal.

I hand the package to them. They say thank you. Over and over again.

I have heard them hassling folks who told them what they are shipping: "Is the firing pin removed"?

They asked me once. I said "why of course it is...."

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:50:53 PM EDT
OK so what about shipping a pistol to myself? What can I do?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:05:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
OK so what about shipping a pistol to myself? What can I do?



Um, no. You can ship it to an FFL holder who can in turn give it back to you, but you can not ship a firearm to a private party who does not have an FFL.

Just don't ship it, take it with you.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:09:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:11:33 PM EDT by Hokie]
why on EARTH would you describe the contents as anything other than ...

"Misc. machine parts, springs, and plastic components

Geez people

Ship it. It's LEGAL provided you're shipping to an FFL. Make your parcel "PC" and call it good.

Remember the worst case scenario - Joey Fed Ex is in love with Michael Moore....act accordingly.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:48:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
OK so what about shipping a pistol to myself? What can I do?



Only if you are shipping it from you to you c/o who ever lives @ the ship to address.

David
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:50:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:51:31 PM EDT by diveriter]

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
OK so what about shipping a pistol to myself? What can I do?



Um, no. You can ship it to an FFL holder who can in turn give it back to you, but you can not ship a firearm to a private party who does not have an FFL.

Just don't ship it, take it with you.




(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By REAPER2502:
I don't even want to get into how that one got settled!!!!


-REAPER2502



Why not? I'd be curious to know.

I had a new replacement S&W 908 sent to replace my POS Sigma SW9M (HUGE POS) and they left the new gun on the porch. Fortunately we are rural and have little crime (knock on wood) but they leave stuff on my porch all the time with nothing but a doorbell ring.

So I'd like to be aware of what works if this happens to me.


_DR
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:44:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
why on EARTH would you describe the contents as anything other than ...

"Misc. machine parts, springs, and plastic components

Geez people

Ship it. It's LEGAL provided you're shipping to an FFL. Make your parcel "PC" and call it good.

Remember the worst case scenario - Joey Fed Ex is in love with Michael Moore....act accordingly.



+1

Complete AR15 receiver = Machined aluminum parts.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:59:17 AM EDT
A gunsmith recommended I ship My IPSC pistol FEDEX because, he said, it was cheaper. I called the1-800 number and spoke with a very pro-gun operator. He said no problemo. COOL.

However, When I talked to the idiot female at the local FEDEX hub(not kinkos) she acted like I was trying to break the law, said it had to go "FFL to FFL". (gunsmith is FFL, I'm not). made a big deal out of it, with contempt in her menopausel voice.

OK, Fuck you, Lady.



The gun went out UPS.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:32:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 9:01:29 AM EDT by scrum]
"In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm." 18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31

As far as "notify" - it means different things and is further not defined by the regulation the ATF provide. Call FedEx, tell them you are shipping a firearm and what the tracking # is, then pass it without a written description on the package. At least that way you don't have to bother telling the clerk at the shipping desk. Since the carrier is prohibited from requiring a label that indicates the package contains a firearm - just comply with the law and notify using some means you can document.

Alternatively, one could open a specific account with them for only shipping firearms, and send the carrier a letter to their general mailing address, using return receipt with signature, that notifies them:

"all packages shipped with [XXXXXXX] account will contain firearms, that any and all shipments will be in accordance with [carrier] posted policies on shipping firearms, that [carrier] must notify promptly in writing of any changes to such policies, that any and all shipments using this account will be in accordance with all federal and state laws and regulations, and that this letter constitutes notification for every packaged shipped wuth [XXXXXXX] account per 18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31."

Then the carrier would always have notice, and you'd never have to argue with the clerks over what laws and policies apply.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:04:26 AM EDT
...and always select the signature required option!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:04:34 AM EDT

My wife shipped a rifle a couple of days ago . We used FEDEX from one of those
third party shipping stores . She told him that it was a firearm . He asked if it was going to
a FFL . No problems . They did not require Priority Overnight service .
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:07:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:09:03 AM EDT by TheTracker]

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm that you tell the carrier that the package contains a firearm.



Show me this law you speak of and it's source.



Only with USPS
I stand corrected
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