User Panel
Posted: 2/2/2006 1:13:46 PM EDT
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Note to self....
1) Don't bring knife to gun fight 2) Don't bring pistol to rifle fight 3) Bring bunker to rifle fight |
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i was tuaght there is no such thing a true "cover" in the real world. consider everything you are behind as concealment. tends make you think about keeping your head down if you think everything you are behind can be penitrated.
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forgot to add,
my above post applies to everything but bread. As we all know, bread is bullet proof. unless you are standing behind chuck norris with a loaf of bread, your ass is grass. |
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Woodland Park, a mountain town just west of Colorado Springs |
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Be careful when shooting at steel targets so close. I have a scar on my cheek from a miscommunitaction between me and another shooter. She asked me which target to shoot. I said whichever one she wanted - refering to the two silouettes I had just posted. She shot at the steel swinger target between and under the two paper targets. The jacket came back and imbedded itself in my cheek. This was at 25 yards.
-K |
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Shouldn't you shoot from a bit further out for a more realistic result?
IIRC bullets are still accelerating after they leave the barrel Do not most rounds achieve max velocity (thus penitrative ability) beyond 25 yards. A average of various distance would also be nice to see for a best case and worst case scenario for each round. |
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Where is that WTF cat picture????? |
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Bullets cease to accelerate as soon as they leave the barrel. |
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We shoot at steel at ridiculously close ranges, like 10 yards. I should clarify this is with pistols. We get hit occasionally, but as long as you are wearing glasses it's not a big deal. The bullet has used up so much of its energy that it's really just bouncing back. I've been hit in the face a number of times and nothing has ever left more than the tiniest scratch. I did get thunked about 1" from the jewels one day, and that one hit hard enough to make me hop around and cuss. Oddly, the shooter (I was a spectator) was shooting at 40 yards. It was a pretty freak deal as I think the bullet actually richocheted off the stand, not the target. Now, rifles at 25yards would make me nervous. When I took these two shots, we had everyone hunkered down behind the truck so I was the only idiot exposed. |
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I thought that as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel, the propellant gases are no longer acting on the bullet, hence no more acceleration.... |
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Im in Fort Collins, Now the only question left is what would have a 7.62x39 round done. |
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Anybody that is shooting at steel with a rifle at 25 yards sure ain't competing with me. I am kind of fond of these old eyes. |
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Maybe I'm having a brain fart but I swear I remember reading that most bullets still accelerate after leaving the barrel. I mean not like out to 300m, but up to 25 or 50 m at most. This was in reguards to the fact it is better to shoot something thats a few feet away than point blank for max penitration.
I don't know what I'm talking about. |
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Well, come on down if you have one and we'll give it a try. I'm hoping to add a .50BMG hole to it in the next couple of weekends. |
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Where do you guys shoot? Have I been enough of an asshole on ARFCOM that I would get shot or beaten up if I arrived and admitted who I was? |
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You may be thinking about the fact that some rifle bullets "settle down" and are more stable at longer ranges as compared to right at the muzzle. But it isn't because they are going faster. As soon as the propellent gases are no longer pushing against the base of the bullet, it will begin to slow down. |
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There's nothing propelling bullets once they leave the barrel. However, they wobble a bit out of the barrel and take a distance (I have NO idea how long) for the centrifugal force to make the bullet stabilize. This might account for a bullet's tendency to not penetrate very well close up, penetrate good for a certain distance, and then not penetrate very well toward the end of its flight. |
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Here you go. |
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I'm no physicist but that wouldn't make any sense at all. |
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National forest mostly, but recently on the private property of a friend. Can't find anyplace in the forest where I can take a safe shot at more than 200 yards though so I'm always looking for a new spot. As to your second question, considering who I shoot with I think you'll get no trouble from us. |
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4) Also bring superior firepower to rifle fight. 5) Bring many friends with rifles to back you up in rifle fight. |
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I'm so sorry but I can't help myself.
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Quoted:
Maybe I'm having a brain fart but I swear I remember reading that most bullets still accelerate after leaving the barrel. I mean not like out to 300m, but up to 25 or 50 m at most. This was in reguards to the fact it is better to shoot something thats a few feet away than point blank for max penitration. Of course they do. Also, hot water freezes faster than cold water. Seriously, the only acceleration on a bullet after it leaves the barrel is 1) Drag force (changing the velocity IS acceleration, or decelleration if you will), and 2) Gravitational acceleration, since the bullet's mass is no longer supported by the barrel. I know they are still going up when they leave the barrel. That a sighting issue. They'd go up more without gravity. |
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Maybe its just me, but that pretty much sounds like the dumbass statement of the day...... |
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yeah, that whole "still accelerating" thing is a myth, brought upon due to the fact that some bullets, such as the 5.56x45mm, penetrate more media at greater distances, this is not because it is going faster, but because at close range the bullet fragments, but at longer ranges, it is slower and holds together.
anyways, how would an AK have done? does the AK penetrate steel better than the AR? Thanks |
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We go up to the National Forest a lot too. You ever go up to the informal range at Gunbarrel Creek near Pine? It's on a section of highway between Pine and Deckers. Not great for range though, just somewhere we go sometimes. |
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Um, what size(dimensions) is that I-beam? Just curious. You could put, like, a beer can in the pic next time for comparison.
ByteTheBullet (-: |
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I've used a 500 count ream of paper as a backstop. For a function check of a few rounds of 5.56 FMJ at 10yd in the back yard it works well. The rounds disintegrate.
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There is a round that still accelerates after leaving the barrel.
A .30-06 Accelerator cartridge has a .22 caliber projectile in a plastic sabot. When it exits the barrel, the sabot falls away, reducing mass. The reduction in mass results in slight acceleration of the bullet. This is what I have been told happens, I'm not a physicist nor do I play one on TV. |
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And gyrojet rounds too, of course. |
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Well you're finally right about something |
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As others mentioned, max bullet velocity is at the muzzle. Unless the barrel is too long, then the bullet can start loosing velocity there. Sometimes, particularly in softer stuff, bullets can penetrate more at greater distances. For example, in Hatcher's Notebook, he shows that .30-06 penetrates deeper in oak at 200 yards than 50 yards. This is because the bullet hasn't settled down as much at the closer range, or because the high velocity impact causes it to rapidly transfer energy, hence momentum, on impact. |
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What is it about guns that attracts such stupid hearsay? |
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It's not worded the best, however we shoot steel with pistols up pretty close as well. I've been hit by a few jackets on the hands. The only thing ever really exposed. It'll scratch you but thats about it. We have pretty muched switched over to frangible ammo now though so even that doesn't happen anymore. Up close ricochets are more of a problem when you shoot the big slow rounds (45ACP) |
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Nope, not just you. That's the most idiotic thing I've heard today. |
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Sabot jackets also reduce the friction between the projectile and the bore which allows for higher velocity. |
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I'd put money that if you shot a plate of steel worth the thickness of the two I Beams flanges (for example if the flange is .125", a .250" piece) it would penetrate.
How thick is the steel where the bullets penetrated? Im actually impressed that it stopped the bullets. I've always wondered how much better two thin sheets of steel would stop a bullet than one thicker piece. I guess Im operating under the theory that one piece will deform the bullet to the point it cannot penetrate the second piece. I do realize its defeated if you put another bullet down the the first hole... |
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Bruce got the noose for stealing a goose from a moose of the back of a caboose. Loost velocity is loost forever. |
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And what exactly is the force that accelerates the bullet? There has to be an outside force acting to accelerate the bullet. |
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My Dad hung out in Woodland Park in the '20's. Talked about the board sidwalks and muddy main drag. |
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jk O_P, your still the best! |
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Woodland Park, a mountain town just west of Colorado Springs
Nice area |
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I think what you are saying(or trying to say) is that the bullet goes faster after dumping the sabot,than it would have gone with the sabot!! No acceleration there! Bob |
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