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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:24:02 PM EDT
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:25:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:25:53 PM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
no but I do root for the russians when they put the afghan under the track in "The Beast"
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:26:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
no but I do root for the russians when they put the afghan under the track in "The Beast"



I can think of a few people I'd like to re-enact that scene with.....
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:26:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:26:45 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:28:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.



You think the average Russian conscript was a commie?
You think the average German conscript was a Nazi?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:28:35 PM EDT
I was also rooting for the Germans, but I have a tendancy to root for the bad guys.

I did feel sorry for the Russkies that were being gunned down in the opening scene (the charge where the commies sent the men into battle, only 1/2 of them armed, and then shot them for trying to retreat), but when the German sniper was offing Russkies I was happy. I was also displeased in the early scene where the russkie sniper dude killed off 5 german officers. I guess my answer is yes, unless it's a hot Russian chick, then I'm not happy about it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:28:59 PM EDT
In the WWII computer sims I used to play I always liked playing the Germans in the Eastern front scenarios.

I found the simulated killing of communists most fulfilling as, alas, I never have gotten to kill communists in real life. But, the future is alive with possibilities and who knows what adventures tomorrow may hold?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:30:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.



I kind of agree with you. The russians did some stuff in WW2 that made them maybe a little bit worse (overall) that the Germans in that war IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:34:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:35:36 PM EDT by samsong]

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.



I kind of agree with you. The russians did some stuff in WW2 that made them maybe a little bit worse (overall) that the Germans in that war IMHO.



To me, it was Stalin's murder of defensless Polish officers after he was gifted Poland from his buddy, Adolphus.

Oh, that, and 20 million Kulak farmers.

Jagoff! Hope he's roasting in hell with Hitler and Khomeni...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:35:05 PM EDT

I honestly cannot understand why anyone would root against anyone that was fighting the nazis. Not trying to pick a fight, or saying anyone is wrong - just that I cannot understand it.

Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:35:41 PM EDT
Im happy when germans and russians die, I get all warm and fuzzy inside.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



Run the numbers. The Nazis were dilettantes compared to the Reds. The only thing that makes it a moral horse race is the commies' lack of racial motive, except where race could be correlated with politics. Skull by skull, the Reds are the Scourge of God. In terms of motive, the Nazis scrape the bottom of the barrel - unless you count banality and indiscriminacy as mortal ethical shortcomings.

The real answer is that an honest man couldn't tell a commie from a nazi with a microscope and an unabridged dictionary. Enemies of human freedom are enemies of God.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:37:49 PM EDT
Makes me wonder why Communist atrocities are always downplayed.

Kids today are taught to despise the swastika and rightly so.

The hammer and sickle are even blindly worn as a fashion these days.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:38:58 PM EDT
In all respect, a mere jump seat behind the evils of communism.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:39:01 PM EDT
The Russians treated their own people as bad as the nazis and killed many more, jews included.
I like my K98 russian capture because it probably killed some meat heads.


The Finnish Carcano too.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:39:41 PM EDT
WOLVERINES!

'Nuff said.

Actually, it's not. I freaking despise commies and nazis about equally. But the Nazis at least attack openly and don't try to subvert from the inside. That said, I still root for the Germans in "Das Boot".
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:42:33 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I honestly cannot understand why anyone would root against anyone that was fighting the nazis. Not trying to pick a fight, or saying anyone is wrong - just that I cannot understand it.

Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.



One hyphenated word for you, mon frere: Molotov-Ribbentrop. Nothing happened at Stalingrad that the Russians didn't earn when that treaty was concluded.

ETA: Ask any Baltic-State patriot to explain the difference. He can't. There's a reason for that.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:42:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I honestly cannot understand why anyone would root against anyone that was fighting the nazis. Not trying to pick a fight, or saying anyone is wrong - just that I cannot understand it.

Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.



Wrong - they allied themselves against the allies WITH the Nazis well before the Tripartite Pact was signed in 1940. Your noble defenders of eurasia were vicious race and antireligious murderers - antiSemites, anti-Christian killers of everybody who got in their way. They got everything they deserved by allying themselves with The Devil.

You know, Stalin was so shocked by Hitler's betrayal that he locked himself behind closed doors and slept for three days after he heard the news in June 1941.

Didn't see that coming, didj'a, Joe?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:44:13 PM EDT
I suspect that there may be an intrinsic loathing of communists because we've spent so much time and treasure fighting them since WWII. The Russians were our mortal enemies up until very recently, so we spent decades preparing for a fight to the death with them while the Germans have been our allies since the war (although I suppose we must use the term "ally" loosely these days). The Nazi threat was relegated to an issue for historians, for the most part, in 1945.

Except for a kooky fringe movement, the U.S. isn't infested with Nazis. Commies on the other hand...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:46:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:
I suspect that there may be an intrinsic loathing of communists because we've spent so much time and treasure fighting them since WWII. The Russians were our mortal enemies up until very recently, so we spent decades preparing for a fight to the death with them while the Germans have been our allies since the war (although I suppose we must use the term "ally" loosely these days). The Nazi threat was relegated to an issue for historians, for the most part, in 1945.

Except for a kooky fringe movement, the U.S. isn't infested with Nazis. Commies on the other hand...



Well said! Somebody should design a sporty uniform for the commies, so they'll out themselves.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:48:00 PM EDT
Sadistic nazi bastards getting whacked, godless commie bastards getting whacked, it's a win-win scenario. I was cheering no matter who got a piping hot serving of lead.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:49:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.



They did try to make some more Lebensraum for themselves by trying to make Finland a part of the Soviet Union and ship the Finns to Gulag camps in Siberia.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:51:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Sadistic nazi bastards getting whacked, godless commie bastards getting whacked, it's a win-win scenario. I was cheering no matter who got a piping hot serving of lead.



Good point. Sort of like North Korea vs Iran in the World Cup Soccer finals.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:54:14 PM EDT
Gimme a fucking break.

All Russians were communists?

All Germans were nazis?

There was actually someone worse than the nazis during that time?

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.



- rem
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:54:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Sadistic nazi bastards getting whacked, godless commie bastards getting whacked, it's a win-win scenario. I was cheering no matter who got a piping hot serving of lead.



Good point. Sort of like North Korea vs Iran in the World Cup Soccer finals.



Yeah, no kidding. I wasn't too torn up in 1985 to 1988, when Iraq and Iran had similar antagonisms.

Kinda like now in Palestine. I hope Hamas and Fatah go through the whoe IED/suicide bomber route, it ought to tie those fucksticks up for a decade or more. Maybe our Israeli brothers can get some relief.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:55:40 PM EDT

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.

Get a fucking history book before you embarass yourself more.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:56:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.




Correct, the Ruskies let them work themselves to death in Gulag instead.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:57:34 PM EDT
they aren't the Russians ...they were the Soviets...Communists...just like the Nazi's were not indicative of all Germans...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



Run the numbers. The Nazis were dilettantes compared to the Reds. The only thing that makes it a moral horse race is the commies' lack of racial motive, except where race could be correlated with politics. Skull by skull, the Reds are the Scourge of God. In terms of motive, the Nazis scrape the bottom of the barrel - unless you count banality and indiscriminacy as mortal ethical shortcomings.

The real answer is that an honest man couldn't tell a commie from a nazi with a microscope and an unabridged dictionary. Enemies of human freedom are enemies of God.



I'm more interested in motives than numbers.

The nazis invaded my country. The communists helped liberate it.


I don't question that the commies were evil in a fundamental way, but in terms of WW2, I sympathise with the Red Army.

One day after VE-day, they were undoubtedly the new enemy.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:58:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
<Snip> piping hot serving of lead. <Snip>


We now know that if Swindle decides not to pursue a career in ghostbusting he has a talent for pulp westerns or British crime novels.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:02:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 9:03:07 PM EDT by samsong]

Originally Posted By remedy:
Gimme a fucking break.

All Russians were communists?

All Germans were nazis?

There was actually someone worse than the nazis during that time?

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.

- rem



WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?

Ever heard of the Rape of Nanking? The purges by Stalin? It is unknown how many Chinese were slaughtered by our ever-over-enthusiastic Nipponese friends, although one source claims almost 6 million killed or worked to death by war's end. Stalin whacked 20 million... OF HIS OWN PEOPLE! This does not include what Hitler killed, ostensbily 3.5 million.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:04:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
<Snip> piping hot serving of lead. <Snip>


We now know that if Swindle decides not to pursue a career in ghostbusting he has a talent for pulp westerns or British crime novels.



Roger THAT, dude. Swindle has MAD SKILLZ with respect to pulp fiction talents.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:07:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



Run the numbers. The Nazis were dilettantes compared to the Reds. The only thing that makes it a moral horse race is the commies' lack of racial motive, except where race could be correlated with politics. Skull by skull, the Reds are the Scourge of God. In terms of motive, the Nazis scrape the bottom of the barrel - unless you count banality and indiscriminacy as mortal ethical shortcomings.

The real answer is that an honest man couldn't tell a commie from a nazi with a microscope and an unabridged dictionary. Enemies of human freedom are enemies of God.



I'm more interested in motives than numbers.

The nazis invaded my country. The communists helped liberate it.


I don't question that the commies were evil in a fundamental way, but in terms of WW2, I sympathise with the Red Army.

One day after VE-day, they were undoubtedly the new enemy.




Trust me when I tell you that I read the letters written to my grandfather after the war, where my relatives told him stories of the fine treatment they received at the hands of the Nazis (the ones that lived, that is) that I'd pay big coin to stake a living Hitler to the 200 yard marker and blow him to pieces with my Garand... slowly.

But the Commies had me - and you - under the nuclear gun for 45+ years, and were the biggest bunch of shitheels on the planet. To this day, in the guise of vaunted senators and congressmen, they are actively trying to destroy my country and enslave me.

I HATE them.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:17:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



Run the numbers. The Nazis were dilettantes compared to the Reds. The only thing that makes it a moral horse race is the commies' lack of racial motive, except where race could be correlated with politics. Skull by skull, the Reds are the Scourge of God. In terms of motive, the Nazis scrape the bottom of the barrel - unless you count banality and indiscriminacy as mortal ethical shortcomings.

The real answer is that an honest man couldn't tell a commie from a nazi with a microscope and an unabridged dictionary. Enemies of human freedom are enemies of God.



I'm more interested in motives than numbers.

The nazis invaded my country. The communists helped liberate it.


I don't question that the commies were evil in a fundamental way, but in terms of WW2, I sympathise with the Red Army.

One day after VE-day, they were undoubtedly the new enemy.




Trust me when I tell you that I read the letters written to my grandfather after the war, where my relatives told him stories of the fine treatment they received at the hands of the Nazis (the ones that lived, that is) that I'd pay big coin to stake a living Hitler to the 200 yard marker and blow him to pieces with my Garand... slowly.

But the Commies had me - and you - under the nuclear gun for 45+ years, and were the biggest bunch of shitheels on the planet. To this day, in the guise of vaunted senators and congressmen, they are actively trying to destroy my country and enslave me.

I HATE them.




Got you - for a second there I misunderstood the "rooting for" in your first post, and mistakenly thought you were symapthetic to their side.

I understand compeltely now, and feel very similarly. Ultimately, both were completely evil - I guess I just come down on that tiny percentage on the side of hating the nazis a SMIDGE more.



Keep in mind that the job I trained for in the infantry in Denmark was to dig in close to the coast of Denmark, and essentially die slowly, while trying to slow down the WAPA armored divisions (inlcuding enslaved Polish and East German divisions, that would crush us), as they came to steal my country. So I've got plenty of the hate for the commies myself.

Sorry if I misunderstood your original post.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.



- rem



dear lord--you really don't know what went on? not to be uncivil, but you really need to read a bit of history, man. start with the japanese occupation of china. specifically, manchuria. progress then to unit 731. stalin's mass murders have already been mentioned.

seriously dude, RUN to the library.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:24:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Got you - for a second there I misunderstood the "rooting for" in your first post, and mistakenly thought you were symapthetic to their side.

I understand compeltely now, and feel very similarly. Ultimately, both were completely evil - I guess I just come down on that tiny percentage on the side of hating the nazis a SMIDGE more.



Keep in mind that the job I trained for in the infantry in Denmark was to dig in close to the coast of Denmark, and essentially die slowly, while trying to slow down the WAPA armored divisions (inlcuding enslaved Polish and East German divisions, that would crush us), as they came to steal my country. So I've got plenty of the hate for the commies myself.

Sorry if I misunderstood your original post.



De nada! Seriously, would the Enemy have ever gotten to Denmark? I have a feeling that he would have had a very, very hard time of it in Western Germany. Our weapons would have laid the smack-down, a' la Gulf War 1, and they'd have probably gone nuclear when their attack shit the bed.

God only Knows what would have happened then.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:32:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Got you - for a second there I misunderstood the "rooting for" in your first post, and mistakenly thought you were symapthetic to their side.

I understand compeltely now, and feel very similarly. Ultimately, both were completely evil - I guess I just come down on that tiny percentage on the side of hating the nazis a SMIDGE more.



Keep in mind that the job I trained for in the infantry in Denmark was to dig in close to the coast of Denmark, and essentially die slowly, while trying to slow down the WAPA armored divisions (inlcuding enslaved Polish and East German divisions, that would crush us), as they came to steal my country. So I've got plenty of the hate for the commies myself.

Sorry if I misunderstood your original post.



De nada! Seriously, would the Enemy have ever gotten to Denmark? I have a feeling that he would have had a very, very hard time of it in Western Germany. Our weapons would have laid the smack-down, a' la Gulf War 1, and they'd have probably gone nuclear when their attack shit the bed.

God only Knows what would have happened then.



Oh - they would have come. Amphibious assault with armored divisions on the coastline. Landing craft, ships, etc - would leave from Polish and East German ports, and then land on the coastline of Zealand. We pretty much knew where they would be coming from, and where they would land (roughly). Poorly disguised East German surveillance craft, made to look like fishing boats, would routinely map and survey our coastline.

The plan for the defense of Denmark was the bitter realization that we would lose Copenhagen early, and so the role of the combat brigades on the main island with Copenhagen was to "slow down" the advance enough to give our armored divisions in Jutland time to get organized (and to get U.S. and Brit reinforcements) and to coordinate with German armored divisions.

Plus, our subs, minelayers and fast torpedo boats would do everything they could to bottle up the soviet Baltic Fleet - the Danish straits are VERY narrow, which was one of the reasons the soviets needed to take the Danish islands.

But the main island would be lost, and regiments like mine would be annihilated. While we trained things like ambush, movement etc. we spent a LOT of time training to dig in, and fight from prepared positions, with no fallback or retreat planned. It would have sucked ass bigtime, and training for a fight that you pretty much know you'll be killed in is a sobering thought.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



Same thing… a distinction without a difference.

Stalin and Moa both murdered far more people than Hitler.

A pox on all of them
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:39:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

I'm more interested in motives than numbers.

The nazis invaded my country. The communists helped liberate it.


I don't question that the commies were evil in a fundamental way, but in terms of WW2, I sympathise with the Red Army.

One day after VE-day, they were undoubtedly the new enemy.




Oh please the fucking Soviets never liberated anyone.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:17:05 PM EDT
When the Russians and Germans are slaughtering each other I ALWAYS root for the Germans

I really, REALLY Dislike the Russians, Patton was right, we shoulda allied with the surrendering Germans, re-armed them, and pushed back toward Russia
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:20:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
no but I do root for the russians when they put the afghan under the track in "The Beast"


isn't it funny how things change???
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:29:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Oh - they would have come. Amphibious assault with armored divisions on the coastline. Landing craft, ships, etc - would leave from Polish and East German ports, and then land on the coastline of Zealand. We pretty much knew where they would be coming from, and where they would land (roughly). Poorly disguised East German surveillance craft, made to look like fishing boats, would routinely map and survey our coastline.

The plan for the defense of Denmark was the bitter realization that we would lose Copenhagen early, and so the role of the combat brigades on the main island with Copenhagen was to "slow down" the advance enough to give our armored divisions in Jutland time to get organized (and to get U.S. and Brit reinforcements) and to coordinate with German armored divisions.

Plus, our subs, minelayers and fast torpedo boats would do everything they could to bottle up the soviet Baltic Fleet - the Danish straits are VERY narrow, which was one of the reasons the soviets needed to take the Danish islands.

But the main island would be lost, and regiments like mine would be annihilated. While we trained things like ambush, movement etc. we spent a LOT of time training to dig in, and fight from prepared positions, with no fallback or retreat planned. It would have sucked ass bigtime, and training for a fight that you pretty much know you'll be killed in is a sobering thought.


fucking danes are hardcore! your sos jaegerkorps is chomping at the bit to get trigger time in a-stan and iraq. the head is saying that you're missing a great opportunity to get real experience instead of training all the time. apparently the danish govt wants to double it's contingent in a-stan but it may be a tradeoff with pulling troops out of iraq (your social democrats are pushing for that). i kinda get the impression the danes have no prob kicking rag ass...
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 6:31:25 AM EDT by jbweld]
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the Nazi's left the Danish royalty in charge of running a puppet government.. The German invasion pretty much consisted of planes circling above the capital dropping leaflets warning of "Poland" type consequences if they resisted. There was some resistance with the heaviest casualties being taken by the guards of the royal palace.

ETA: I believe the life expectancy of a unit stationed on the Fulda Gap during the cold war was like 30 seconds.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:39:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jbweld:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the Nazi's left the Danish royalty in charge of running a puppet government.. The German invasion pretty much consisted of planes circling above the capital dropping leaflets warning of "Poland" type consequences if they resisted. There was some resistance with the heaviest casualties being taken by the guards of the royal palace.



There were two stages to the occupation of Denmark.

The first was immedialy following the invasion, where the government and the king had been given the choice of surrendering, and being allowed to largely govern Denmark themselves - with Nazi oversight, or fight the invasion (and still lose) and then get a very heavy-handed and potentially burtal occupation. Because the Danish army was very small and hed been totally neglected since WW1, the king and government decided to capitulate. (You are correct that there were intense gun battles at the royal palace in Copenhagen, and a few places in southern Jutland - German troops crossed the broder in Jutland, and German troops were landed by troop carriers in Copenhagen. I believe the invasion force was two divisions and a motorized brigade.)

However, the peaceful occupation ended in August 1943 (and there had been a lot of sabotage and resistance all along, since 1942, including heavy involvement by British SOE) and the Danish government refused any collaboration with Germany, and resigned - and Germany (and the Gestapo) started governing Denmark directly. And things just got worse from there, with the Germans trying to round up all the Jews in October, and eventualyl sending a lot of Danish police to concentration camps for refusing to cooperate with the Germans.


But yeah - the collaboration was absolutely there, and is a demonstration of what happens to small countries when they neglect their military power. During WW1 Denmark managed to stay out of the war and remain neutral because it was much more powerful militarily.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:42:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Oh - they would have come. Amphibious assault with armored divisions on the coastline. Landing craft, ships, etc - would leave from Polish and East German ports, and then land on the coastline of Zealand. We pretty much knew where they would be coming from, and where they would land (roughly). Poorly disguised East German surveillance craft, made to look like fishing boats, would routinely map and survey our coastline.

The plan for the defense of Denmark was the bitter realization that we would lose Copenhagen early, and so the role of the combat brigades on the main island with Copenhagen was to "slow down" the advance enough to give our armored divisions in Jutland time to get organized (and to get U.S. and Brit reinforcements) and to coordinate with German armored divisions.

Plus, our subs, minelayers and fast torpedo boats would do everything they could to bottle up the soviet Baltic Fleet - the Danish straits are VERY narrow, which was one of the reasons the soviets needed to take the Danish islands.

But the main island would be lost, and regiments like mine would be annihilated. While we trained things like ambush, movement etc. we spent a LOT of time training to dig in, and fight from prepared positions, with no fallback or retreat planned. It would have sucked ass bigtime, and training for a fight that you pretty much know you'll be killed in is a sobering thought.


fucking danes are hardcore! your sos jaegerkorps is chomping at the bit to get trigger time in a-stan and iraq. the head is saying that you're missing a great opportunity to get real experience instead of training all the time. apparently the danish govt wants to double it's contingent in a-stan but it may be a tradeoff with pulling troops out of iraq (your social democrats are pushing for that). i kinda get the impression the danes have no prob kicking rag ass...



Id wager that the Jægerkorpset have been doing a whole lot more than just chomping at the bit..

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:49:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



The Red Army was bled out by the fighting to get to Berlin. You can call it "ripped them a new asshole" but it was also bad for them. They earned that city in blood.


It's doubtful they could have done much more once they got there, hence the easy time the West had dealing with Stalin after the war. I don't doubt he'd have gone farther had he the manpower left to do it with.


Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:50:08 AM EDT
I rarely have empathy for anyone getting whacked in movies. It's fiction and frankly it hardly ever makes me really upset when I see it happen*

Dave Grossman, is that you?

* I'm not heartless. I've just seen enough real people getting whacked on video that it takes a GREAT movie with some excellent acting for me to get upset about it... Saving Private Ryan comes to mind as being very well done.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:50:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
Gimme a fucking break.

All Russians were communists?

All Germans were nazis?

There was actually someone worse than the nazis during that time?

Sorry but even though the Japs were rough and the Russians were brutal, they didn't gas/burn millions of people (including their own citizens of various races and social status) in a systematic genocide.



- rem



yikes. Someone needs to brush up on their history.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:51:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I honestly cannot understand why anyone would root against anyone that was fighting the nazis. Not trying to pick a fight, or saying anyone is wrong - just that I cannot understand it.

Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.



Tell that to the volunteers who signed up SPECIFICALLY to fight against Stalin, from all over Europe, including Russians.

Hitler was bad, yeah, that's very obvious, Stalin was just as bad and we shouldn't have helped him in any way.

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:53:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I honestly cannot understand why anyone would root against anyone that was fighting the nazis. Not trying to pick a fight, or saying anyone is wrong - just that I cannot understand it.

Russians especially. They were attacked by the Germans, and were pretty much just defending themselves for most of the war, until they finally got the momentum. Whether they were communists or not, they were defending themselves against ruthless invaders, and then decided to take the fight to the germans.



Your kidding right? The only reason the Russians and Germans fought each other is because Adolph broke the deal that he had with Stalin. They were both brutal dictatorships that killed millions of people. Stalin refused to believe for days that his buddy Adolph was really serious when the germans attacked. Just because Adolph broke the deal first does not make the Russians in anyway the good guys. They are just as evil and brutal and killed far more people in the Gulags then the Nazi's did in the death camps.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:56:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By samsong:
Really, in Enemy at The Gates, I kept rooting for the Germans.

I HATE communists 2/10 of 1% more than I despise Nazis.




The evils of communism take a back seat to the evil of nazism, in my opinion.

The germans got what was coming to them, when the Red Army ripped them a new asshole, all the way to Berlin.



I disagree with your first sentence; and partially agree with the second.

Their evils were both equal, in my view. Perhaps, as a Dane, with all that happened in WWII it would be logical for you to dislike the Nazis more as there was more direct involvement with your country. But, by any other measure, both were evil, and the only issue between them was whose evil would win and rule. Genocides? Look at Stalin: even the most conservative estimates show he killed twice as many (as if that mitigated the other - it doesn't), but merely makes him another butcher. And, some whose countries were occupied by the Russians might debate with you about which was worse.

As far as the Germans getting what was coming to them, they started the march, so finish it or someone else will. Though there is debate about the issues in Poland (the Russian officers, who it is now known and documented were killed by the Russians to make it looke like the Germans did it), the Germans could indeed have occupied Poland and stopped there to hold it as a buffer, rather than expose aarmies to the large Russian land area. And, it would have been more justifiable. The Germans did indeed make further war on Russia, whether it was an attempt to re-write WWI's ending or something else, and there were atrocities. SInce they couldn't carry it all the way, they got it. Stupid Hitler didn't know his history. A simple reading of Napoleon's campaign would have been instructive. Even with their Blitzkrieg and speed, that went for a while. Destroy the oilfields, and a resurrected Bagration or deToller could have defeated the German armies.

In an equal sense, I do not feel sorry for the German cities bombed by the British. The Germans bombed the British a "little" too, didnt they? Shoe was on the other foot. But, that doesn't make the British any better, either: let's remember, they declared war on Germany. Sure, it was in response to a treaty obligation, but it was a fact.

So, who is evil in all this? Those who order men to go kill for no particular reason other than their own ambition.

One thing I was curious about, which you may know. You say later on that the Danes were not involved in WWI. Did the Danish Navy have any involvement at all with the Battle of Jutland?
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