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Posted: 1/31/2006 11:43:52 AM EDT
[#1]
So you are not being held liable right?
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Posted: 1/31/2006 11:46:01 AM EDT
[#2]
No - well that's what they are telling us at this time. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:13:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Curious...does she use it at restaurants? I do not like them taking the card out of my sight. I am very close to saying "I'll go with you to the credit card machine" to make sure it only gets swiped in one reader.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:16:42 PM EDT
[#4]
First of all, they tend to call first. Rarely (if at all) so they use E-mail. Did she enter any CC info or use a link etc to contact the CC fraud dept. ALWAYS use the number that is printed ont he back of the card for any calls. Never use a number sent in an E-mail or reply to an e-mail.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:22:39 PM EDT
[#5]
The most ridiculous thing is they will never bother to look for the idiots that did this. The cops will just hope to catch them on something else later.
The banks will just bump up the interest rates for everybody. I have a client who had some credit card checks cashed by someone else. She knew who did it. The cops know who did it and have the proof. The perpatrator moved out of state and nothing else has been done about it. It's been going on for 2 yrs. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:25:29 PM EDT
[#6]
My wife had her credit card stolen last year, but I decided not to report it. Turns out the guy who stole it was spending less than she was, so...
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#7]
+1 i've never heard of Amex sending an email either, that's interesting. 
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:48:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Since I have recently been through this with a Debit Card and talked with the Secret Service, I can tell you that this can happen without a thief ever laying eyes on your card, mail, or internet transaction.
It is probably not due to anything you have done. They keep hacking away until they find a combo that works and then go to war. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I would go back and look at the email to verify that it was AMEX she got the email from. You might be getting scammed right now.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:16:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the replies guys
Tallbob - Few if any Restaurants. However, she uses it just about everywhere else - groceries, gas, clothes etc - there is no telling where the number was stolen. PsyWarrior - We've had the internet scam "talk" - she had called Amex back via the number on the card BangStick1 - It's sickens me that there isn't better followup for this type of fraud. I have a real problem with liars and thieves - the world is better off without them. IMHO WyattEarp - I believe that they have her email as a result of setting up online viewing of the statement. TheCynic - It's a legitimate email from Amex. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:28:00 AM EDT
[#11]
My first thought. When she got the email did she call the number on the email or on the card? ETA: Never mind. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:55:46 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:21:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Yep, that's how they really scam ya. You don't get scammed until you respond to the "you've been scammed message." Good luck with it. M4-AK |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:00:52 AM EDT
[#14]
I had a cart that would some times have a small purchase - around 20 bucks made, and then charged back.
I didnt think too much of it. I thought it was just an error. Then someone charged $150 worth of something in London. Well - that wasnt me. But I wasnt liable for the damage. Thats why Visa, etal, rape the merchants with fees etc, to protect their customers. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:06:14 AM EDT
[#15]
very funny... |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:07:09 AM EDT
[#16]
And the merchants pass the costs on to us via higer prices. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:10:08 AM EDT
[#17]
If it was a credit card and not a debit card, then by law, you're only responsible for a maximum of $50. Even if the cc company wanted to stick you with the bill, they can't. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:18:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Greedy merchant (AND maybe in cahoots, at least the employee, with the perps). Don't they check to see if the person has an ID (or 2) to back up the card. The martians will have it easy taking over.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:33:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Some can, others just get run out of business by the CC company when they take the money back from the merchant. See, guys, the CC companies DON'T lose ANY money on this. They simply take it back from the business. My oldest brother got burned this way and almost lost his business, ended up with $40,000 in debt and the FBI showed ZERO interest when he said that he had one more request for a laptop did they want to try and bust the ring? Yeah, I trust the FBI 
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#20]
CC fraud is out of control.
I used to investigate CC crimes and you wouldn't believe how fucked up the CC companies are. I have NO sympathy for them whatsoever. Without going into the how-to's, the CC companies make it too easy with little fear of prosecution for the suspect. The consumer foots the bill for everything. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 11:05:26 AM EDT
[#21]
JJ, I feel for you guys, it's never good to hear this happened. However, look at the bright side... They called the CC company who then authorized the sale, thats their fault. The signatures on the reciepts are neither yours, nor your wifes. You cannot be held liable. You won't be held liable. Ok, maybe for $50. But, I'd even fight that. You won't have to fight hard. Chances are, someone at a gas station or supermarket, anyplace you recently used the card... did a reciept "reprint". What that means is, you can have the register spit out two reciepts... and with some stores having card numbers printed on the reciept, they've got the relavent info. Its hard not to notice somebody writing down your account number, but with a reprint they dont have to... maybe just remember the last 4 digits, until you leave the store. There is also an excellent chance that the thieves are now on a security camera tape someplace. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 2:06:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Cliff notes version...Exxon card several years ago. Maybe used card once a month and the local convenience store. Get bil...over $1k. Several calls to Exxon later with no satisfaction, I ask them if they want this on the 6 oclock news. Finally admit they were having 'major problems in the south east'. I'd love to know what that 'major' problem cost. I did know some 'bank employees' several years ago that said they were keeping a lid on the cost of card problems because they were afraid the board of directors might get wind of it.
Reason I asked about restaurants...several road warriors I know have had various issues at upscale restaurants. I think some of the employees think no one ever looks at the monthly statemens. When clerck/server whatever hand you your card back make sure it is your card. My dad and another friend had this happen recently. They start running a lot of credit card transactions and get the cards mixed up. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 2:19:48 PM EDT
[#23]
That's where my buddies card info was stolen. A few days after the restaurant, he had 4 tickets to Las Vegas charged, then somehow refunded so they got the money. They did catch the guy, and he was an employee of the restaurant. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:20:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the veal! |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 6:45:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Anyone got matches?
Great News!!!!! The scumbag got greedy, and attempted another purchase, he's now in the Philadelphia jail. I can only hope that he's being made to feel very comfortable and doesn't accidentally bump his head or worse. Apparently he's been caught doing this before - fortunately he's not all that smart and will now be spending some time away from the rest of humanity - Not my personal preference but you guys know how I feel about it by now. Thanks again for the encouraging words - a good ending (well, so far) |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 6:48:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Then relax. The credit card company eats the bill. Of course, they'll raise their interest rates ever so slightly to recoup their losses. So the moral of the story is don't have credit cards |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 6:58:59 PM EDT
[#27]
 Artist/Band: Keith Toby Lyrics for Song: Beer for My Horses Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news Said somebody's been shot, somebody's been abused Somebody blew up a building Somebody stole a car Somebody got away Somebody didn't get too far yeah They didn't get too far Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son A man had to answer for the wicked that he done Take all the rope in Texas Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that (Chorus) Justice is the one thing you should always find You got to saddle up your boys You got to draw a hard line When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune We'll all meet back at the local saloon We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds We've got too much corruption, too much crime in the streets It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down You can bet he'll set 'em down 'cause (Chorus x2) |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:06:48 PM EDT
[#28]
I got a good credit card story. When I was 19 (currently 27) I recieved a debt collection notice. I called the company to see what it was for and they told me it was for an unpaid balance on a Mobil Gas credit card. I told them I didn't have a Mobil card and asked when the charges were made. They said in 1986hem I STILL HAD TO FILL OUT A FRUAD PACKAGE!!!! Debt retrievele services can be MORONS!!!
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Posted: 2/1/2006 7:18:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Outstanding news. Be sure to keep the pressure up on AMEX and the Authorities. All to often they let these assholes slide. They are worse than an armed robber. More cowardly.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:10:58 PM EDT
[#30]
My brother had a thief rip-off a bunch of stuff from inside the house.
One item was an old purse his wife hadn't used since she graduated from college. Her and my brother forgot that she had a low limit credit card in it that they got before they were married. They never updated it after they moved twice. 9 months after it was stolen she (not my brother) gets a call from the credit card company asking for payment on a $21,000 dollar bill that's 6 months behind on payment. Long story short the local police and sheriff fraud detectives went after her full bore for about 2 months because they never declared the purse or the credit card as one of the stolen items. Come to find out that it was the credit card company that was driving the issue, they thought that she had not claimed the card as being stolen and had racked up the purchases. Another city police department in the same county ended up catching this guy with stuff he had stolen from their general neighborhood area over the past 18 months. They found the stolen credit card on him and almost all of the purchases still unwrapped in the boxes. The police cleared her, but by then the credit card company had turned the bill over to a collection agency. They spent about 9 months clearing up that little fuck-up. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:16:55 PM EDT
[#31]
My dad had his AMEX hit for about 5k and they traced it back to a restaurant. He hadn't used it for months and then had the one charge in Tallahassee for a business lunch then bam, fraud all over the Tallahassee Best Buy. No harm to him , all it took was a phone call and they made it right. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:24:00 PM EDT
[#32]
It's American Express. They will not hold you liable for the charges. Period. Besides, it's a credit card and the law protects you. Thankfully it wasn't a debit card because then you'd be $11,000 poorer and have to fight the bank to get your money back. The law does not protect debit cards nearly as well as it does credit cards.z |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:35:33 PM EDT
[#33]
What if it's one of those dual-use debit cards? It can work as a debit card with the PIN, or as a credit card using the Visa number function?
NTM |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 10:16:22 PM EDT
[#34]
It's not that hard to memorize 16 digit number, a 3-5 digit CCA(?) on the sig box, and the expiry date. Someone could swipe it right in front of you, and have the whole thing memorized... Jim |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:08:09 AM EDT
[#35]
It is true that you are only liable for $50 of fraud on a credit card but in the past, American Express was NOT a credit card--it was a CHARGE card, and that's why the bill was due in full every month.
On a credit card, you can pay a minimum and let the balance ride to the next month. On the Amex website it says now that you can "pay charges over time" and I don't got an Amex so I don't really know. ----- And as I have said before--your bank or credit-card info is much more likely to get stolen from a computer network than the guy at the local restaraunt is to copy the number down and start spending on it. Two recent examples- computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,108069,00.html ".... JANUARY 26, 2006 (COMPUTERWORLD) - The U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has imposed a $10 million civil penalty against data aggregator ChoicePoint Inc. for a massive data security breach that resulted in the compromise of nearly 160,000 consumer records last year....." (-those "comsumer records" probably contain complete personal info and any active credit card and bank accounts-) and this one is even better: www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/02/01/subscriber_credit_data_distributed_by_mistake/ "....Credit and bank card numbers of as many as 240,000 subscribers of The Boston Globe and Worcester Telegram & Gazette were inadvertently distributed with bundles of T&G newspapers on Sunday, officials of the newspapers said yesterday...... ......The confidential information was on the back of paper used in wrapping newspaper bundles for distribution to carriers and retailers. As many as 9,000 bundles of the T&G, wrapped in paper containing subscribers' names and their confidential information, were distributed Sunday to 2,000 retailers and 390 carriers in the Worcester area, said Alfred S. Larkin Jr., spokesman for the Globe...." Some days you just can't win.
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:15:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Not directly. All responsible cardholders pay indirectly through higher fees and rates. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:21:16 AM EDT
[#37]
So how do they make fake cards? Are the fakes easy to spot if you know what to look for? This is some messed up stuff, identity theft is getting way the hell out of hand.
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:34:51 AM EDT
[#38]
I like how CC companies try to sell those protection plans so "you aren't held liable".
By law, you are not liable anyway. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:41:16 AM EDT
[#39]
i think you are getting worked up over nothing. look at it this way--if someone wanted to defraud you, they wouldn't need to take the card out of your sight. number, exp date, full name, and 3-digit security code are all one needs. swiping is merely an efficient way of entering this info into the computer. any time you use your card, you are taking a risk. i get people in my bar that refuse to hand over a card to secure a bar tab becuase they are worried about fraud. that's fine with me, but it means that they don't get to run a tab. i don't give no-collateral loans. these same people, however, will then use their card for each drink purchase. i try to explain to them that, once they use their card to pay for anything, i have enough info to buy a radar for my boat, if that's what i wanted to do. it would be tracked down, certainly, and they wouldn't be liable for the cash, but it is possible after any CC transaction. my point is that the card itself is a worthless piece of plastic that contains some very valuable numbers. worry about the numbers, not the card. a daily check of your card account via website is a far better preventative measure than protecting the physical card. my daily web routine is... 1. check email 2. check bank website 3. check CC website 4. check arfcom i've had several unauthorized charges over the last few years, and i have caught every one of them within 36 hours. after a call to customer service, i haven't had to worry about a thing, and i haven't been liable for a penny. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:55:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Depends on how they run the purchuse. If it's run as a debit where you used your pin number, VISA does not protect that transaction. If it's run as a credit where you sign for it, VISA will protect that transaction. Moral of the story, always run the card as a credit. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 12:02:42 PM EDT
[#41]
+1. never use your PIN unless it's absolutely unavoidable. protect your numbers. i always go credit for reasons of liability, plus i always have my signature. this is a purchasing pattern, and therefore counts in my favor in the event of ID theft. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 12:13:40 PM EDT
[#42]
They dont have to memorize the numbers. There is such a thing as a pocket scanner, where the croooked waiter or waitress takes your card to run it on the restaurants CC machine, they run it thru the pocket scanner too. If is a device the holds the numbers in memory. After a night working, they might have 40-50 CC numbers on the memory of the pocket scanner |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 12:23:58 PM EDT
[#43]
+1 ... I'd much rather find out 1 business day after someone misappropriated my card #, rather than waiting for 25+ days until the end of the month to find out! I check my cc websites daily (I only use 1-2 cards at a time and never carry a balance). |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 12:32:08 AM EDT
[#44]
not to be rude, but you're simply not reading what i'm writing. i had 70+ CC transactions tonight, and i wouldn't need a "pocket scanner" if i wished to steal from any one of the CC holders. i could, at this very moment, log onto bushmaster.com and buy a new upper with any of the CCs i took tonight. i don't need a "pocket scanner". i need a pen. or even easier, i need to hit "reprint" on my CC machine 6 hours after you've escorted me to the CC machine to ensure that i only run it once. what you're not understanding is that YOU HAVE NO POWER TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING. if i never touch, see, or smell the card, i can still do it. the only reason that it doesn't happen, aside from morality, is that all CC transactions are traceable. why do you think that criminals make all their purchases with cash? as a civilian, it would take me 24-36 hours to track you down with a full name, state, and a couple of bits of personal data. once that happens, i can trace your movements within an hour by looking at your CC purchases. and i'm not a LEO--all of my info would be open source. so let's say that greygoose came into my bar. if you run a CC at any point, your info is mine. with the info on your card, plus the fact that you're from ohio, i could track down your mother's maiden name, and therefore have a 50% chance of logging onto your CC and hijacking the entire account. even without that, i would still have first, last, and MI, plus your CC#, exp, and security code, which would allow me to buy anything on the web. of you want secure transactions, man up and pay with cash. if, however, you want the convenience of a credit card, take the proper precautions and oversee your account. otherwise, you deserve whatever happens to you. [edit: greygoose actually spells his handle properly.  ] |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 5:01:14 AM EDT
[#45]
You are right, we are all pretty much powerless to having this happen. I was just pointing out other ways that the number can be had. The problem with the pocket scanner use, if overdone, is easily traceable back to the original crook. Example, crook scans 20 cards in the course of a night. Crook uses numbers from the 20 cards. This would be easily traceable back. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 7:27:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Make sure you get all the thief's personal info. Address, DL number, etc. You may want to file a civil suit against him.
GunLvr |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 7:38:05 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm glad they got the scumbag, now he'll get no jail time and a $50 fine under our revolving door justice system.
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