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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:30:28 PM EDT
[#1]
I just plead guilty to mine.
Loss of driving for one year. Took the Air Force rehab class. Co-worker lived across the street from me and I was also closs enough to work to ride a bike. About a year later got orders for Kadena AB (Okinawa). Driving record doesn't follow you to another country, so I was back to 0 points for insurance. A few months after returning to the states I was back to 0 points here and on the road again. I saved a bundle and was off the road for just over 1 year. Fast forward 10 years and no further violations, not a single point of any kind in fact. And that's my story, YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:48:45 PM EDT
[#2]
DUI is not a 'violation', it is a 'criminal offense'. You should handle it as such. Keep your mouth shut, be cooperative, and hire a competent attorney.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 4:23:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Lawyer Up!
And be a lot smarter next time. Don't drink and drive. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 4:32:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm a probation/parole officer at the county level and have seen my fair share of defendants come through the system here in PA so I'd like to put in my two cents.
First off, if it is correct that your girl does not have a criminal record, she may be eligible for the ARD(Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition) or known in other states as a the Pre-Trial Diversion Program. What this is essentially is an opportunity for non-violent first time offenders to get their criminal record expunged. This means, specificially for DUIs, no jail time, no loss of license, no criminal record, less court costs, etc. What is required of ARD participants is that they complete the CRN(Court Reporting Network)recommendations for treatment which mostly is outpatient treatment and counseling, as well as Alcohol Safe Driving School, 50 hours of community service, paying fees and costs, and reporting once a month to an officer. First off, let me reiterate that I work in PA so laws may differ in your state. That being the case, from my perspective an attorney does very little with DUI cases, especially if the the commonwealth's case is rock-solid. If she understands that she has no outs she might want to save the $2-3K on attorney's fees and put it towards court/counseling costs. If your girls is going the ARD route the paperwork is so simple that anyone with a little grey matter can figure it out. I have a lot of clients that get real pissed off when they see someone with a PD or who is PRo Se get a better deal than they did, considering that their offenses are quite similar(ie: both 1st time DUIs, 3rd tier BAC). With all that being said, if she thinks she may want an attorney to look at her case to see if there's any outs then by all means get one. Also, in the state of PA, attorneys don't usually have much leverage in bargaining with DUIs because there is no lesser included offense in the DUI statute, ie: previously mentioned "generally impaired" however in other states there may be that option. Again, I'm no attorney but I've been in the system long enough where I think my opinion carryies some weight. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 4:47:04 PM EDT
[#5]
We need more drunks working with children?  I hope a drunk never hits me (again) and injures my wife (didn't have one the first time). 
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:04:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Absolutely. After she gets the DUI behind her, sit her down and explain this was a once in a lifetime occurance. It will NEVER happen again. If she has so much as one beer or glass of wine (with a meal, etc) she is through driving for the day. Only have a drink if there is a non drinker that can drive her home. If she is out on the town with no "driver", she is to leave the car and call a taxi, friend, etc. for a ride. But she can not drive. If she is caught again in the next 20 years, her driving days are behind her. And if she hurts someone, she will go to jail, period. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:29:57 PM EDT
[#7]
She is in the legal system now, and going to court, of course she needs a lawyer.
You need a new girlfriend. Cost of first offense should be around $7000.00 total if she does not loose her job. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:34:17 PM EDT
[#8]
LOSE! David! L O S E! |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:38:19 PM EDT
[#9]
If you get arrested and indicted for ANYTHING get a fucking attorney! Why even ask this question? Tell her to lawyer up and support her as best as you can.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:38:38 PM EDT
[#10]
They must do it just to mess with you at this point. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:40:16 PM EDT
[#11]
NEVER go to court for ANY reason without a lawyer ESPECIALLY on a DUI charge.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:50:48 PM EDT
[#12]
My advice is this: She should consider herself lucky that she didn't kill an innocent person and ruin her (and their) lives. She needs to plead guilty, not "no contest," guilty. That's what she is. Only when she takes full responsibility can she learn her full lesson. Pay the fines, etc., and then move on. Oh, and never, ever do it again. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:20:49 PM EDT
[#13]
 Let me be blunt, because the bad advice keeps on coming. From now until the time this is cleared up, the government is her enemy. Not friend, not counselor, not rehabilitator, but enemy. That is how our legal system is set up, it is an adversarial system. The word "trial" originates from "trial by combat" in which two men would fight to the death, on the theory that God would favor the just. What goes on in the courtroom today is exactly the same thing, only with words. The prosecutor will attempt to nail her ass to the wall, so that he can build his career as being tough on crime. And if you think that some judge is going to do "what is fair" you've got another thing coming. He has two interests: (1) getting this case away from him as soon as possible; and (2) getting re-elected (in some jurisdictions). The only two people who give a rats ass about you in a criminal trial are you and your lawyer. Walking into this situation without a lawyer is like walking onto the field of battle without a gun. Its a terrible idea, and your girlfriend will either learn this the hard way or the easy way. Always, always, always, talk to a lawyer. There is NO downside. You can always talk to him and then not take his advice. Even if you decide to plead, do it with a lawyer, he will know what is a fair deal from the state and what isn't, and can make sure that you aren't a stepping stone to some shmuck DA who wants to run for attorney general. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:29:26 PM EDT
[#14]
How in the hell can this be good advice? By your name and avatar, your a cop, and thus on the other team in a criminal matter. Your job is to put lawbreakers away for as long as possible. Anyone would be a fool to take this advice, an utter fool. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:35:11 PM EDT
[#15]
My advice is to offer nolo W/ minimuns at her arraignment. If the prosecutor is hell bent on having a trial then it would be time to retain an attorney. Sorry for not being more clear. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:38:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Again, terrible advice. An initial consultation with a lawyer will cost little or even nothing. If HE tells you to do this, then and only then should you do it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:45:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Again, I can't speak for the law of the land in KN's location. I am only speaking on the approximately 1k DUI clients I have dealt with as a probation/parole officer. It may very well be a polar opposite. I only know that in MY EXPERIENCE a PRIVATE attorney is superfluous in that: 1. attys have very little bargaining power when it comes to "making a deal". As the quote mentioned, the DA is trying to make a name for him/herself, hence no deals. 2. In our jurisdiction, ALL DUIs get 72hrs-6mos for a first time; 30 days-23mos for second; 90days-23mos for third; and 1-2yrs for fourth and above w/in a 10 year period. There is NO way to bargain. 3. As I mentioned the ARD program earlier, the deocuments can be filled out/understood w/o the assistance of an atty. I get the feeling from reading these previous posts that most individuals posting, w/ all due respect, do not have a whole lot of experience in this subject or may have some preconceived notion of how the criminal justice system operates. I work in a smaller community where the judges know all of the attorneys and vice versa so if an attorney who is buddy-buddy w/ a judge can't get a deal, whose to say that an attorney who has never met the judge before will get a deal. I'm not insinuating that our CJ system is corrupt; I'm saying just the opposite in that a def pro se will get the same deal as a def with private counsel. As mentioned before, if this lady does think she's getting a raw deal, I'd highly recommend retaining counsel to see if there are any outs and if there are pursue it further and if not take a plea or pre-trial diversion. All I'm saying is that as a CJ professional, if one of my family members got a DUI I would not recommend "lawyering up" as you all put it. I would recommend saving that $2-3K for court costs/fines/fees as well as counseling/treatment/safe driving school fees. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:47:02 PM EDT
[#18]
So what do you have to lose since like the original poster said she is guilty as hell? Walk in at arraignment and offer NOLO W/ minimum sanctions. If the prosecutor says no then retain an attorney. She will most likely save herself thousands of dollars. I'm not an attorney, and don't live in your state but I am a police officer who is a DRE and an SFST instructor. I have made over 400 DUI arrests (It's my pet peeve  ) so I am familiar with what goes on in court (at least here in RI). Most prosecutors want to eliminate their case loads W/O trials. They will almost always take a fair offer from a first offender. YMMV |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:47:45 PM EDT
[#19]
I have a profound dislike for drunk drivers. Even so, if she doesn't lawyer up she will get the shaft.
Everybody hates attorneys until they need one. Advise her to find one that has experience with DUI cases and pay the attorney's fees. I have been deposed in civil cases and interviewed in white collar crime cases where I had absolutely no involvement in any wrong doing. I don't speak without an attorney present. It sucks paying the fees but it sucks worse getting pinched by the system. It has nothing to do with "rich vs poor" and everything to do with self-preservation. Maybe she'll get lucky and find a lawyer who plays racketball with the DA. My wife got popped for 25 mph over the speed limit in VA (wreckless driving). The attorney we hired played softball with the arresting officer's wife. Fine and no points, reduced to something goofy like not obeying posted sign. Lawyer up. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:52:31 PM EDT
[#20]
LET GO! tc! L E T G O! |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:15:31 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't doubt that you've seen a lot of people come through the legal system, but the highlighted area is where you are out of your element. You don't lose 2k the second you talk to a lawyer. Most are paid on an hourly rate, and depending on the area you should be able to get a good one for around a $100 or so. Talk to a good, experienced lawyer. One of the things he will do is explain what the likely outcomes are, and tell you what the pluses and minuses are of each course of action, including what it is going to cost you. For many lawyers, the initial consultation is free. The key is to find a good, honest one. And contrary to popular belief, most are good ones. Find one who does this for a living and at least listen to him. A few hundred tops for an initial consultation could potentially keep you from getting something on your record that will follow you forever. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:21:30 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't know since I don't even know the jurisdiction. Let's talk hypothetically for fun. The answer to your query? Easy! Your license!! In Illinois, such a move would mean automatic revocation (not suspension) for a statutorily mandated one year for first offenders and 3 for second offenders. In order to restore your driving privileges, you must petition the SOS and travel to Springfield for a hearing. The average rate of denial for 1st time reapplicants? 94%. It is not unusual for a revocation to last 3-5 years the first time around. The foregoing does not have to be the result. Some offenders qualify for a program to avoid this result in IL. A nolo contendere will not. What about a judicial driving permit? Do you suppose the girl will be able to successfully petition for it on her own? Does such a thing even exist in the charging jurisdiction? Collateral administrative repercussions means more beaucracy and non-crimnal penalties that the Court and the State's Attorney won't bother warning you about. What did he mean by guilty as hell? The original poster is asking if GF needs a lawyer but you'll accept his legal analysis that she's 'guilty as hell'? If she was sitting in her house with 20 kilos of cocaine and the police decided to conduct an illegal search and found her coke she'd be guilty as hell but she damn sure could walk. I think that anyone not familiar with the jurisdiction, lawyer or no, cannot possibly give quality legal advice on the best course of action particularly given the wisp thin fact pattern. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:23:44 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:24:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Get a lawyer; period. With good luck, she will only get a PBJ and maybe have to attend some classes. The lawyer may suggest that she attend some classes before her hearing too.
FFS, drinking and driving is just stupid and dangerous. How hard it is to walk or call a cab? IIRC the total cost for a first time DUI is around $5000-$10000 average (considering everything). So she could have taken a cab to the nearest airport, flown to California, flown to New York, flown back to Califorina, flown back to New York, flown back to the airport she started out at, taken a cab back home, and still saved a few thousand dollars. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:25:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Friend of mine from highschool....
His family was driving along.... Got hit by a drunk driver..... His Family burnt to death in their car.... I hate drunk drivers.... She should be in prison... Sorry, no sympathy here. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:26:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Actually, I'm not quite out of my element here; 1 have two relative that practice law in my county as well as my father who's a common pleas court judge so I know how SOME stuff works. I will grant you that I was presumptuous in initially stating that a def would take a $2-3k hit. I was thinking that if you retained counsel and ekpt counsel to represent you throughout the preliminary hearing, omnibus pretrial hearings, plea hearin, and finally sentencing that it would be a great waste of funds. But yes, if you consulted an attorney for an initial consultation an were only hit w/ a small/no cost AND DID NOT HAVE TO PAY A RETAINER FEE then yes, I would agree however it is my understanding some attys will want to lead their clients through all of the afforementioned steps when there is no sense in them being there ripping you off. Knowing when you need to go it alone is important, IMHO. And when I say you, I mean the client. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:29:47 PM EDT
[#27]
This is the PRUDENT advice to follow, IMO. Spending a few hundred to get a better understanding of the situation is well worth it. Of course, I am cynical enough to imagine that if you walk into a lawyers officer (especialyl for a "free" consulation) they will do their best to convince you that you NEED their help, billed at an hourly rate - whether you get the outcome you want or not. But, even with that concern, it would be insane to not at least go for an initial consult with a lawyer or two. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:39:38 PM EDT
[#28]
JBT here. Have your "girlfriend" plead guilty and thank God she did not wipe out a family of four. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:41:44 PM EDT
[#29]
She's gonna get a sammich? 
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:46:51 PM EDT
[#30]
OT....but sounds like you help get these fuckers off the road.......Thank you..... Again, not an ounce of sypathy for DUI'ers. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:46:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Please let me offer an apology for my previous advice. What the hell was I thinking? It would be far better to deny the charges and demand a trial. Make the state prove its case, damn it- the burden is on them. Why in the world should she take responsibility? I say it's the police officer's fault. How can we allow these damn cops to erode the freedoms our Founding Fathers gave us? What right did he have to stop her in the first place? 
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Posted: 1/31/2006 8:48:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Wrong. You might be more drunk in an hour. Your BAC could be going down, but it could also be going up depending on when and how much you drank. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:14:14 PM EDT
[#33]
As an LEO all I can say is around here lawyers pretend to have gotton something for their client their client could have gotton on their own, without the lawyer and $2500 cheaper.
Prosecuters HATE going to court, adds more work to their case load. They will offer a plea anyways to avoid exactly what the dipshits here are suggesting. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Apology accepted. Just don't let it happen again.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:22:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Yes, but the threat of trial is stronger when you have a guy on your side with a good reputation. "Lawyering up" doesn't always mean a trial. In my area of law, civil litigation, 95% of all cases end sometime before trial. Of the 5% that do go to trial, half settle before trial is over. Why do you think people like Johnny Cochran can charge such ungodly amounts? Prosecutors know what happened to Marcia Clark and will have a strong desire to avoid a similar fate. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:34:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Isn't it a little different though with DUIs compared to say JC type murder cases. DUIs are low on the priority scale and no one takes them as seriously as compared to a murder where the prosecuter sees a worth in taking it to trial? They kinda save the trial time for the more important murder instead of a DUI i guess. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 10:20:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Ok people im sorry but ..
any situation that involves a courtroom you need a lawyer there really is not any other options I have just have various tickets but they sure start dealing and dropping shit when it is apprent you are not gonna roll over had to actually go to trial on a traffic ticket once stupid fucks would not budge on the ticket i won but figured it was probably a wash as the attorny fees probably equaled what my insurance would have went up but i prefer to pay my buddies dad than the state or a insurance co |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 3:09:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Some states have hard and fast pre-set penalties for DUI offenders. 6 mos. suspension, counseling, probation, etc. If that is the case, a lawyer might not be able to do much more than cash her checks.
Some states have more discretion in sentencing. In this case, a lawyer would be a very wise choice. I would advise her to consult with a competent attorney to get an idea of her options. If there is a good chance to minimize the permanent damage to your driving and insuarance records, I would get the lawyer. a DUI conviction can follow you around for years financially. She can still have remorse. She should consider herself lucky that no one got hurt. Hopefully this episode will cause her to change her dangerous behavior, without anyone having to die or go to jail, or both. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 3:19:07 AM EDT
[#39]
I guess those few lawyers have never heard of the Widmark formula, have they? The average person eliminates .015 or approximately one drink an hour, for most people an hour does not mean anything. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 3:41:18 AM EDT
[#40]
I agree. Going into a courtroom without at least someone on your side is  .Edited to add: It's also stupid to just accept whatever punishment they decide to give you. It's like taxes in which you have to pay but there is no honor in paying too much. She will get punished but there is no honor in taking too much. I didn't read the whole thread yet. But lighten up on the girl. Yes she may have been sloppy drunk going 500 mph down a one lane street between a retirement home, a nursery, a preshool, and a park but she may have been .01 over the legal limit. I'm not condoning driving so don't think I am and I don't drive after drinking but not every legally drunk is as evil as MADD wants you to believe. If she's not a habitual offender remind her how lucky she is that this is the only thing that happened. Then dump her if she doesn't learn her lesson. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 3:54:18 AM EDT
[#41]
+1 !!! I'm suprised that the same people who think judges are ruining his country would trust them to be fair and impartial. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 4:57:35 AM EDT
[#42]
I also have no sympathy for anyone who drinks and drives. She should lose license, do jail time etc. First offense or not. She is damn lucky she didn't kill someone.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:25:55 AM EDT
[#43]
A lot is going to depend on the state. Here, lawyers don't really get you anything you couldn't get on your own. Most attorney consultations with a prosecutor about your case last less than 5 minutes and usually involve bragging about golf scores. I see no difference in the DWI's I arrest. Plead guilty or no contest and you'll get the same thing as the guy that just dropped 7K for "representation".
 I have one idiot right now, blew a .27, was drinking a beer when I pulled him over, admitted ON TAPE to drinking "17 or so" beers in an afternoon and fell on his ass during FST's.  He's spent 22K so far "fighting his case" and we haven't even gone to trial yet. His lawyer has just gotten a 5th delay.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:29:33 AM EDT
[#44]
plead guilty and pray she only gets her ass sent to AA meetings.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:31:52 AM EDT
[#45]
If the question is ever "lawyer?", the answer is "most definitely."
Kharn |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:35:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Same here. Some people ask me what they should do after I release them. I explain they can talk to the DA or retain a lawyer, whichever they think is better. Either one is fine with me. The "smart" ones who retain a lawyer give me the most pleasure, because they're all found guilty anyway--but have to pay their lawyer too. I haven't lost a case yet, or had one reduced to something below a DUI. Not even the guy who paid his lawyer to take it all the way to appeals court
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:39:56 AM EDT
[#47]
Here the penalty for a first offense DUI is $390.00 fine, 90 days restricted license & 10 AA classes.
A lawyer will cost $10,000.00 for trial and $500.00 for the 1 hour DMV hearing. You do the math. Now second or third offense, lawyer up! |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:43:14 AM EDT
[#48]
In some states. In mine everyone gets the same penalty whether they plead guilty, get convicted with a public defender or get convicted with Mark Shapiro. $390.00 fine, 90 day restricted license. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:48:18 AM EDT
[#49]
If your gonna stand on the wrong end of a Judge...you had best have an attorney present.
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:50:10 AM EDT
[#50]
+1 |
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