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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:01:49 AM EDT
I love that plane
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:10:34 AM EDT
Good thing I've seen that show. I'd be late for work. What an awesome aircraft!

I'll watch it for a bit anyway . . .
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:14:17 AM EDT
Didn't that one release nukes while inverted to 'throw' them instead of dropping them?

I wonder what would be the life span of many of these aircraft if the power to fuel consumption was as good as it is today.


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:58:09 AM EDT
I used to fly RC with a guy that was a 3rd seater in B58's. Later flew Weasel missions in VN.

rj
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:03:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:06:20 AM EDT
Military channel shows way too many aircraft shows. Yeah, i know it was Wings before, but it isn't anymore. They should show more actual war footage, military vehicles, small arms, etc....
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:06:31 AM EDT
What a beautiful plane. It looked like it was going Mach 3 just sitting on the tarmac.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:06:44 AM EDT
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:16:41 AM EDT
The gun was mounted in the tail, so no, it didn't fly into the bullets.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:18:52 AM EDT
I thought it was a M61 20mm Vulcan cannon (like used on most of our fighters) in the tail?

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:20:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



Muzzle velocity of a 50 BMG is roughly 2,900fps = 1,977 mph.

Depending on the source... max speed of the B-58 is 1,370 mph.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:22:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



Muzzle velocity of a 50 BMG is roughly 2,900fps = 1,977 mph.

Depending on the source... max speed of the B-58 is 1,370 mph.




Bullets slow down, the B58 can hold it's speed longer
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:29:42 AM EDT
Physics gentlemen! The bullets would already be traveling the same speed as the aircraft when unfired (much the same way you are moving the same speed as your car while in it) therefore when fired the bullets are moving much faster!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:44:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami: I love that plane
It had a cool name.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:50:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
Physics gentlemen! The bullets would already be traveling the same speed as the aircraft when unfired (much the same way you are moving the same speed as your car while in it) therefore when fired the bullets are moving much faster!



beat me to it. +1

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:30:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



I doubt it. Most aircraft used 20 M/M by the time the Hustler came out. A Navy F-8 Crusader did shoot it self down with it's 20 M/M back around 1957-58. It was in a slight climb when it fired and then went in a slight dive when the bulletts caught up with it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:31:49 AM EDT
Now there have been planes either shot down or nearly so by gun gas.

Early experiments with 20mm cannons in F86's would result in gun gas causing the engine to flame out.

I think the possible urban myth about supersonic jets shooting themselves down requires them to have shot at a relatively high angle of attack and then started a shallow dive that eventually ended up with the jet in the rapidly slowing bullets trajectory several miles downrange.

rj
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:34:15 AM EDT
The myth is from this fact:

B58 had a vulcan 20mm in the tail for defense. When firing at max speed the bullets would be traveling "backwards" in relation to the ground. They would still be moving away from the a/c though. And they would still hit a target with the same amount of muzzel velocity.

Its just relative to the environment. Relative the a/c the bullets behave normally. When looking at it from the ground, the bullets would be moving in the same direction as the a/c but the space would be openning up.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:37:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



Bad sum bitch!!!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:42:56 AM EDT
We've got one here at Grissom AFB in Indiana.
Very cool.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:03:01 AM EDT
The B58 Hustler was plagued by maintenance problems. Great looking bird though.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:43:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



That was a Grumman G-96 Tiger prototype. One of my uncles was an engineer for Grumman and worked on the program.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:51:46 PM EDT
That was one bitchin' plane.. a plane before it's time (and materials)

sux not to have the military channel!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:59:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



That was a Grumman G-96 Tiger prototype. One of my uncles was an engineer for Grumman and worked on the program.



I don't think this is physically possible.
But let's not start another bullet physics thread.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:16:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 1:19:07 PM EDT by rjroberts]

Originally Posted By Boog:
I heard a long time ago that they tried to put 50 cal. machine guns on the Hustler but the plane, because it was so fast, actually flew into the bullets the first time they did a live fire, flight test and damn near shot itself down.

Sounds like a myth.

Have you guys heard anything like that?



That was an F- 105, and it was in a dive and just pulling up, and it was a cannon.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Didn't that one release nukes while inverted to 'throw' them instead of dropping them?

I wonder what would be the life span of many of these aircraft if the power to fuel consumption was as good as it is today.





Seems I recall it would go into a climb and release the bomb so it would have a long arc while the Hustler hightailed it outta there.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:15:12 PM EDT
When the F-104 first came out it had a gun problem that resulted in it basically shooting itself down.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:26:09 PM EDT
damn, a B-58 thread with only one pic!?!?!







and of course we gotta show this one:
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:27:04 PM EDT
Mmmmmmmm, Valkarie
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:55:44 PM EDT
B58s are the schiznit, one of the coolest airplanes ever made. If you are a B58 fan, read the book "Fail Safe" by Burdick. The movie sucks but the book is great.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:13:01 PM EDT
There's a great article on the B-58 in the Jan 06 Air and Space magazine. Its first flight was 11 Nov 1956 and the last one flew in Jan 1970. One pretty amazing fact stands out: there were 116 aircraft built and of those 26 were destroyed over that 14-year period. Those are pretty bad odds and probably one of the reasons it was retired when it was.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:13:22 PM EDT
The matador, the matador!
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