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Posted: 1/30/2006 3:04:13 PM EDT
Rare photo of a German anti-tank dog in training. Comments?

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:07:00 PM EDT by EPOCH96]
link?

ETA:
Sure that's not a palestinian dog?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:19 PM EDT
IS the dog wearing a muzzle?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:59 PM EDT
Draw down, really!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:06:34 PM EDT
What is that?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:07:16 PM EDT
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.


Fuckin jerry's

- rem
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:09:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.


Fuckin jerry's

- rem



So THAT'S where the ROP'er's got the idea from!!!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:18:58 PM EDT
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.


Fuckin jerry's

- rem



i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.



Trust me, it's fun....
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:23:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:24:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:28:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:29:47 PM EDT by passgas55]
I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:30:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By passgas55:
I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.



Payback is a beeotch!!


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kamikazi:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.




Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:38:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Kamikazi:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.




Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...



Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:42:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:54:17 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Kamikazi:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.




Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...



Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.



That was always my understanding as well... I would bet even money that is a Soviet training photo.

ETA: After a short Goggle search that picture is purported all over the Internet to be a Soviet picture not German.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:48:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.


Fuckin jerry's

- rem


Except that it was a Russian tactic to make up for the lack of armor early in the war. What you see in the photo was a training simulation. The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.

BTW, the Jerries, for all their faults, were stunned by the tactic, being a nation of dog lovers.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:50:58 PM EDT
As I saw it, probably on the History Channel, it was the Russians, not the Germans, who used dogs to fight tanks.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:51:38 PM EDT
Doesn't surprise me. Russians were no better than the German at that time.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:00:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Kamikazi:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.




Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...



Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.



That was always my understanding as well... I would bet even money that is a Soviet training photo.

ETA: After a short Goggle search that picture is purported all over the Internet to be a Soviet picture not German.



Ja? Well, both sides had captured the others tanks. Having a T-34 to have the dog run under is not a real big deal for the Germans, or having a PanzerKampfwagen IV for the Soviets. Could be either side.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:09:36 PM EDT
That is actually a really good idea combat wise.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:14:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
That is actually a really good idea combat wise.



Right?


I thought I was the only person who saw that.


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:23:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 4:27:47 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Ja? Well, both sides had captured the others tanks. Having a T-34 to have the dog run under is not a real big deal for the Germans, or having a PanzerKampfwagen IV for the Soviets. Could be either side.



No is a Soviet picture. Found it referenced in Soviet histories... no where except this thread I can find is that picture portrayed as anything but Soviet..
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.


Fuckin jerry's

- rem



i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.





Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:26:29 PM EDT
It's the Russians who trained their dogs to go beneath tanks. Food was tossed there and so the dogs associated the tanks with food. Only trouble is that the dogs couldn't distinguish between a Russian tank and a German one, so they lost their own tanks to their own dogs.

As a sidenote, examine the mantlet on the turret. It's a dummy gun. I've never seen a T-34 training tank pic until this one.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
It's the Russians who trained their dogs to go beneath tanks. Food was tossed there and so the dogs associated the tanks with food. Only trouble is that the dogs couldn't distinguish between a Russian tank and a German one, so they lost their own tanks to their own dogs.

As a sidenote, examine the mantlet on the turret. It's a dummy gun. I've never seen a T-34 training tank pic until this one.



Yea that is not a combat vehicle… so it is not a German picture. And that is a T-34/85 turret so this picture is from later in the war than I had heard the Soviets were doing this.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:38:34 PM EDT
This just BEGS to be made into an inspirational poster.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:07:35 PM EDT
I have read briefly about these; the stick on the dog's backpack is the trigger for the explosives. It is too tall to fit beneath the tank, so when it is flipped down...boom.

As to the origins of the picture I have no idea, arguments for both sides are possible.

Fascinating find.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:48:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.



David Fletcher (Curator, Royal Armored Corps Museum Bovington) told me he had been amazed when he saw anti-tank mine-dogs in Russia only a few years prior to when he was speaking to me in the 1990s. He had also thought that the idea had been abandoned.

NTM
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:51:12 PM EDT
This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?

Put some LEO's in the turret! *dons flame proof suit*
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:53:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Misery:
Doesn't surprise me. Russians were no better than the German at that time.



considering the millions of russian soldiers and civilians who were dying, i can hardly blame them for utilizing every resource they had available to win the war.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:56:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:56:49 PM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?



The problem is seeing the dog in the first place.
The second problem is that dogs are generally smaller and faster than people.

ETA, and they may well not know enough to be as scared as your average anti-tank crew. Not to mention the reward based training.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 7:22:24 PM EDT by CookieCrisp]
Im sorry, I was a little tipsy when I posted this. It is in fact a Russian training pic, the catption even says so . Sorry guys! I have another pic somewhere of a German halftrack w/ crew eyeing a dog about 10ft away from the vehicle. The caption on that is suprised the dog is still alive because of above tactic.

edit: and if I remember right that anti-tank dog pic is from after WW2.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By the_great_snag:
This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?



It isn't. That's why the Germans started shooting every dog on the battlefield.

NTM
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:19:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Happyface:

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
That is actually a really good idea combat wise.



Right?


I thought I was the only person who saw that.





Should try it with potbelly pigs and caves.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:22:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CookieCrisp:
Rare photo of a German anti-tank dog in training. Comments?

photos.yafro.com/pics3/i/20060130/16/f/a/9/fa983957997d46f08638b11c28843fb5200601300_full.jpg



I don't think that is correct. The Russians used dog bombs that they trained to look for treats under German tanks. Problem is the dogs usually ran under the more familiar looking Russian tanks.

Russians were the same ones that shot a dog into orbit to die. Russians are shitbags.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:23:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By passgas55:
I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.



+1 I don't think the Germans EVER used dog bombs.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:38:07 PM EDT
Gentlemen, I am the softest heart here when it comes to dogs, but as a soldier of many years it is a foregone conclusion that every time I move out across the berm my life is on the table, because that's what war is all about. I ain't complaining either.

But as my life is on the table, my dog's life is also there with me. Each combat K-9 is very loved, and very expendible.

Oh, but it's a suicide mission Fordguy? how many suicide missions have you gone on fordguy? See each mission could be a suicide mission, you don't know. You treat each one as if it may be THE ONE. Obviously, none of mine have been true suicide missions as I am still fogging up mirrors.

When your country and freedom is at stake, you'd send YOUR dog. I don't like Russions, hell I really don't like anybody, but that was a war Russia had to win.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:39:03 PM EDT


Problem solved!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:53:01 PM EDT
I am guessing that rod at the top would bend when the dog was under the tank - setting it of.

Kind of sad and sick if you ask me. I mean - I understand war is war and one must destroy the enemy. But dogs are MANS doing. We have an obligation to take care of them.

Eh - oh well. Its not like Stalin had any respect for anything else - so why should I be suprised. Maybe the souls of the dead dogs now have iron hot noses, and get to sniff Stalins crotch all they want in hell.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:55:35 PM EDT
Dude, with all the people dying in that war, Russian, or German, Soldier or Civilian, the dog is just small potatoes. Every woman within 500 miles of where that picture was taken was probably gang-raped and then shot, so who gives a shit about the dog?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:59:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:01:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Dude, with all the people dying in that war, Russian, or German, Soldier or Civilian, the dog is just small potatoes. Every woman within 500 miles of where that picture was taken was probably gang-raped and then shot, so who gives a shit about the dog?



I don't think it's unreasonable to care about all of the bad things about war, soliders k.i.a., dogs, animals, women being raped, ect.

Anyhow it was the russians. I've read they were equally ruthless with older or retired service dogs, they used them for the stronger youthful dogs to prey on teaching them to be agressive.
Then again the speznants often maim or kill prisoners of the gulag at will in training.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:12:00 AM EDT
Philosophically, I guess it's better to be a dead dog than the property of a country that would send animals to their deaths to knock out a tank.

I hope, on a cosmic level, those dogs get to bite the nuts off the guy who hatched this idea in the great hereafter. Karma, and all that.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:30:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:

Originally Posted By dport:
The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.



David Fletcher (Curator, Royal Armored Corps Museum Bovington) told me he had been amazed when he saw anti-tank mine-dogs in Russia only a few years prior to when he was speaking to me in the 1990s. He had also thought that the idea had been abandoned.

NTM


Would make sense as a first strike weapon, IMO. Maybe they revived it for the Germany scenario.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 2:02:48 PM EDT by Stryfe]

Originally Posted By swingset:
I hope, on a cosmic level, those dogs get to bite the nuts off the guy who hatched this idea in the great hereafter. Karma, and all that.


Reminds me of the Willie and Joe cartoon where the MP at the POW processing station tells them, "I'll let ya know when we get the one that invented the 88."
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:09:57 PM EDT
The Japanese did the same thing with thier own soldiers.

I do feel bad for the dogs trained for this type of mission.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:11:14 PM EDT
Must have saved the KGB alot of ammo!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:08:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.



Congratulations, you've re-invented the Cat-a-pult.

Jim
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blacklisted:
i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/ebolamonkey/JBT_TANK.jpg

Problem solved!



the tanks safe now, thank god! haha
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