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Posted: 1/30/2006 9:29:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 12:17:13 PM EDT by Cape_hunter]
The Oregonian has always been a very liberal paper and never a friend of the gun owner. However this article was not written as such. It is IMO written well and remained failry unbiased. The actual paper shows a picture of one of our local arfcom members firing his m16. I am posting this here complete with link to the article and the link to address to write the editor. I ask that you take a few minutes to send an email in support of story as I assure you, the libs in PDX are fuming and will do the same.

Thanks
CH

GUIDELINES FOR "LETTERS TO THE EDITOR"
We invite your letters to the editor. Send them to: Letters to the editor, The Oregonian, 1320 S.W. Broadway, Portland, Or., 97201, or letters@news.oregonian.com via electronic mail. They may also be faxed to (503)294-4193.

Please limit letters to 150 words. Please include your full address and daytime phone number, for verification only. Letters may be edited for length and clarity.



Link


Machine guns come out of the closet
Firearms - Fully automatic weapons are legal in Oregon as long as they are properly registered and used safely

Sunday, January 29, 2006
TIMOTHY A. AKIMOFF

After a week of delicately etching out cavities with a laser, dentist Rob Dugger of Wilsonville heads to the target range with his modified M-16.

"If it wasn't this, it would be hot motorcycles or hot cars," Dugger said, standing in the cool mist of a Sunday morning at the Albany Pistol and Rifle Club. "I do it to relax."

Dugger, 49, a married father of four children ages 8 to 18, joined the substantial ranks of Oregon machine gun owners three years ago when he discovered that fully automatic weapons were legal in Oregon, as long as they are properly registered.

The federal government prohibits private citizens from owning automatic weapons made or imported after 1986. But Oregon -- unlike California, Washington and seven other states -- has not extended those restrictions to all machine guns. Oregon, in fact, has some of the more liberal weapons laws in the country. In Oregon, you can legally fire a machine gun, shoot a flamethrower, even launch a few grenades as long as you do it safely and with registered equipment.

Gun shops that sell or rent machine guns are scattered statewide, and facilities in Albany, Eugene and Clackamas County host supervised target practice.

The Baron's Den in Eugene draws customers from all over Oregon, plus a few from states where machine guns are illegal. They pay $30 to run two 25-round clips through a Thompson machine gun, a process that lasts about six seconds per clip if you hold the trigger down. In Clackamas County, the sheriff's office welcomes machine gun owners at its indoor firing range near Clackamas Town Center and provides supervised public rental of an M-4, a lightweight version of the M-16 favored by the military.

An expensive hobby

Jim Ebert, a former Oregon City commissioner who has taught machine gun safety and marksmanship for 20 years, bought his first M-16 for $500. It's now worth about $11,000. Thompson submachine guns -- the Tommy guns associated with Al Capone and 1920s gangsters -- can fetch $10,000 to $40,000.

Today's Tommy gun owner is someone like Gordon Herigstad, a retired engineer from Molalla who spent his working days as a merchant mariner. Herigstad is an expert on the Thompson submachine gun, which he favors for reliability and nostalgia. Herigstad occasionally uses the weapon in competitions, usually finishing near the top, but more often it's locked in a case, rising in value like a fine antique.

Prices have soared because the ban on weapons made after 1986 limited supply and because of what some owners call the outlaw mystique of a misunderstood firearm.

"Only the upper income brackets have the discretionary income to buy machine guns," said Ebert, who also is the full-auto instructor for the Albany Pistol and Rifle Club.

Patrick Murphy, an Intel engineer who lives in Vernonia, is one of the new breed of owners.

"Sometimes I take these Intel guys out to shoot. You should see them standing there in suits with a big smile on their face as they brrrrrr, brrrrrr, brrrrr," Murphy said, pretending to strafe the landscape.

The registration process

When it's time to buy, people often come to Erik Chaffee of Damascus.

"It's not an easy process," Chaffee said of transferring and registering a pre-1986 machine gun. You have to have money, sometimes a lot of money, and you have to have a clean record. Once local law enforcement has signed off on a transfer, paperwork enters the federal approval process, which can take weeks or months.

Chaffee figures he's probably handled more than 200 machine gun transfers since he became a licensed dealer and started Chaffee Investment Arms in 1998. He's been known to let clients shoot $100 of ammunition before settling on a purchase.

Some people want big machine guns that fire rifle-caliber bullets and sound like a supersonic jackhammer, Chaffee said. Others want smaller, more refined weapons, such as the 9mm HK-MP5 or the Israeli-made Uzi.

"You can't pick out a machine gun for a guy," Chaffee said. "That would be like picking a wife for somebody."

A changing market

Machine guns have always been legal in Oregon, but owners kept quiet about them.

Gun dealer Chaffee said that until about 10 years ago, you didn't talk about machine guns in public, and you never told anyone who sold one to you.

"Back then, every time someone got shot, or a bank was robbed, every type of gun was bad," Chaffee said. "It didn't have anything to do with the person. It was just bad guns."

Chaffee credits the Internet with changing machine gun subculture by creating a meeting place for buyers and sellers, and a medium for the exchange of ideas. Gun owners in the Portland area often turn to subguns.com for postings of firing ranges or clubs open to machine guns to find out about scheduled shoots or to make contact with other owners.

R. Glenn Sabin of Portland, who came to appreciate machine guns during his military career, said the culture has "always been under the radar" because of what he sees as misinformation. "I think it's a lack of education about guns," Sabin said, referring to efforts to further restrict gun ownership. "Besides, a legally registered machine gun has never been used in a crime."

That point is hard to prove, but according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives, Sabin may be correct. Arrests involving unregistered automatic weapons, however, do occur, and they can be disturbing.

In 2001, federal agents and Clackamas County sheriff's deputies discovered an arsenal of explosives, machine guns and white supremacist literature in a rural Clackamas County home near Sandy. At the time, Sandi King, who has a 31-year history with the sheriff's office, said, "This is the first time I've seen something of this magnitude, ever. . . . This is scary."

Dale Penn, a longtime district attorney who now heads the state lottery, said that after Congress passed the 1986 law restricting machine guns, he spoke with law enforcement officials about proposing a complete ban on machine guns in Oregon, but it never became a priority. Machine guns are too expensive, too hard to conceal and too heavily regulated to be favored in street crime.

Shooting extravaganzas

The rising interest in machine guns also creates a market for organized shoots and occasionally spectacular exhibitions.

The nation's largest machine gun event is a three-day, full-auto extravaganza each spring and fall at Knob Creek Gun Range in Kentucky. Up to 10,000 visitors watch as machine gunners fire on radio-controlled cars and household appliances. To get a spot on the firing line requires up to a 10-year wait.

In Oregon, one of the most popular machine gun events is the semiannual shoot at the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club, a target-shooting competition that showcases machine guns for sale and offers rentals supervised by the range master. Albany's next shoot will be May 20-21, an event expected to draw about 400 spectators and participants.

This year, the Albany shoot could be eclipsed by a new event in Eastern Oregon.

On June 17-18, the Eagle Cap Shooters Association of Enterprise plans to host what organizers are billing as "the biggest and best machine gun shoot in the Pacific Northwest."

"We have a big range, the ability to shoot out to 1,000 yards, explosive targets, a night shoot, and the nearest neighbor is over a mile away, so noise won't be an issue," said Eric Kosowski, a spokesman for the Shooters Association.

"We're pulling in people from Boise, northern Idaho and all over Oregon."

Timothy A. Akimoff:503-294-5918; timakimoff@news.oregonian.com


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:34:21 AM EDT
Aside from the 25 round 'clip' nonsense, it was a pretty good article.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:36:48 AM EDT
Wow. That was in a normal newspaper? I'm going to have to send a letter congratulating them for being so even handed with the article.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:49:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
Wow. That was in a normal newspaper? I'm going to have to send a letter congratulating them for being so even handed with the article.



Not only a normal rag, generally liberal and it was on the front page of the Sunday edition!!!
The pic is great too. 3 empties in the air and all!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:21:44 AM EDT
What no pics!! I can;t DL them at work and host them but someone should.

I loved that pic of the lower marked safe, semi, Rock N' Roll
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:23:49 AM EDT
yeah, but just wait, for the next week the "letters to the editor" section will be filled with people screaming "HOW CAN PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO OWN SUCH TERRIBLE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? THEY MUST BE INSANE TO EVEN WANT TO OWN SOMETHING LIKE THAT!" and "BAN THEM! IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!"

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:27:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:28:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
yeah, but just wait, for the next week the "letters to the editor" section will be filled with people screaming "HOW CAN PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO OWN SUCH TERRIBLE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? THEY MUST BE INSANE TO EVEN WANT TO OWN SOMETHING LIKE THAT!" and "BAN THEM! IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!"




That is exactly why I started this thread. So we could be "PROACTIVE" and not just sit back and complain about hte left and their whining! Dont bitch, write a letter!
CH
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 11:44:01 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By photoman:
What no pics!! I can;t DL them at work and host them but someone should.

I loved that pic of the lower marked safe, semi, Rock N' Roll



Here is a link to the pdf file of the front page. It has the picture of one of our members firing his m16. I am at work and have no way of capturing the photo and hosting here.

LINK TO PDF INCLUDING PICTURE!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:43:54 AM EDT
The article was pretty good for that type of paper .
I am glad I didn't know that only the upper income elite can afford a machine gun when I got mine...I might have found something practical to do with the thousands spent on this interest...
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:47:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 11:48:30 AM EDT by petagunner]
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:54:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:




"You can't pick out a machine gun for a guy . . . That would be like picking a wife for somebody."



There's a sig line for ya.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:00:24 PM EDT


well, now that the libs know you can have them, be prepared to fight to keep them...


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:12:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By photoman:
What no pics!! I can;t DL them at work and host them but someone should.

I loved that pic of the lower marked safe, semi, Rock N' Roll



Here is a link to the pdf file of the front page. It has the picture of one of our members firing his m16. I am at work and have no way of capturing the photo and hosting here.

LINK TO PDF INCLUDING PICTURE!



I'll pull them from the picture of the day section from sunday when I get home.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:14:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

well, now that the libs know you can have them, be prepared to fight to keep them...





We have never stopped!!!!

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:21:10 PM EDT
Good stuff. Email sent.


Cheers
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:47:36 PM EDT
You all hear that sound.............


It's Diane Feinswine having a stroke and crapping her drawers.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:56:51 PM EDT
I sent them a nice e-mail. This was a good read. They deserve credit.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:04:14 PM EDT
Pretty nice articl. Very surprising coming from a leftist pinko commie rag too.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:16:13 PM EDT
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:20:19 PM EDT
I just wish the title was something like , "Machine Gunners have a Blast"

Coming out of the Closet sounds, well...


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:25:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I just wish the title was something like , "Machine Gunners have a Blast"

Coming out of the Closet sounds, well...





Yea, but considering the self-imposed isolation that most gunners put themselves through because of fear of what the general public may or may not think, "coming out of the closet" is an apt term.



Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:27:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

...

Gun owners in the Portland area often turn to subguns.com for postings of firing ranges or clubs open to machine guns to find out about scheduled shoots or to make contact with other owners.

...




I bet it is a zoo over there today.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:29:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I just wish the title was something like , "Machine Gunners have a Blast"

Coming out of the Closet sounds, well...





Yea, but considering the self-imposed isolation that most gunners put themselves through because of fear of what the general public may or may not think, "coming out of the closet" is an apt term.






Yep. Actually it is one of the points in the article..



Machine guns have always been legal in Oregon, but owners kept quiet about them.

Gun dealer Chaffee said that until about 10 years ago, you didn't talk about machine guns in public, and you never told anyone who sold one to you.

Chaffee credits the Internet with changing machine gun subculture by creating a meeting place for buyers and sellers, and a medium for the exchange of ideas.


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:34:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Q3131A:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

...

Gun owners in the Portland area often turn to subguns.com for postings of firing ranges or clubs open to machine guns to find out about scheduled shoots or to make contact with other owners.

...




I bet it is a zoo over there today.



Actually, there is a thread there and the reporter has comented personally. PCAmrms, one of our members here, is also posting there.

Link to subgun thread
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:37:13 PM EDT
oh, I'm just bein' sarcastic...

I think it was an excellent article!

Honestly, I think the biggest impact could be a little jump in prices
if rich types that didn't realize the availibilty suddenly come forward
willing to spend what it takes to own one...

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:38:06 PM EDT
The journalists e-mail reply was pretty damn cool.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:41:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
oh, I'm just bein' sarcastic...

I think it was an excellent article!

Honestly, I think the biggest impact could be a little jump in prices
if rich types that didn't realize the availibilty suddenly come forward
willing to spend what it takes to own one...




Well until sombody can sneak the repeal of the 86 into another bill, and or convice enough people that there is money to be made(ie; TAXES for the fed) by lifting that ban, some of us may never catch up to the cost.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:43:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
The journalists e-mail reply was pretty damn cool.




The reply from the journalist.....



Bryan,

Thanks for the note, and thanks for reading the story.

The subject was not difficult for me personally. I got into journalism
later than most reporters do. My college years were spent learning the
art and craft, not some professor's ideology. I'm very curious about any
subject, and machine guns provided a way to delve into gun control
issues without coming at it with an overtly political agenda. I can't
say that any other reporter I know would have approached this the same
way. However, I don't know any reporters who would have written about
machine guns.

I've covered two war zones, Bosnia and Kosovo. Machine guns were a
common site to my wife and I during our years in southern Europe. While
I don't agree with war, I know that people kill people, not guns.
Machine guns became fascinating to me when I discovered the engineering
behind them. The culture of people who collect machine guns for show or
for shooting is an aspect that I was privileged to learn about during
the course of researching this story. I've been honored to meet some
very dedicated shooters, gun safety advocates and charming people.

Thanks,

Timothy A. Akimoff
Reporter
The Oregonian

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:06:15 PM EDT
btt for the night crew.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:10:38 PM EDT
tagforlater
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:50:03 PM EDT
w00t

Start writing letters!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:46:01 PM EDT
Pretty cool...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:42:50 AM EDT


"You can't pick out a machine gun for a guy," Chaffee said. "That would be like picking a wife for somebody."



lol
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:48:07 AM EDT
Well I think it was a pretty decent article. Kinda like what journalism should be. It shouldn't take a bias.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:58:40 AM EDT
very cool!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:27:00 AM EDT
I was not impressed with the article. While it may seem (on the surface) to be a gun-friendly story I see a subtle and sisnister message hidden in the text. The reporter uses quotes (probably out of context) to equate gun ownership with "motorcycles or hot cars" like just any other hobby. Personally, I am offended when firearms ownership and the 2nd are portrayed as simply a "hobby" it feeds into the whole "no useful sporting purpose" crap that the gun-grabbers like to lobby. I didn't like the expressed statements that machine gun ownership is safe because it is so regulated and the guns are registered (what a great idea to be extended to so-called assault weapons, lite .50s, sniper rifles and Saturday Night Specials, etc, etc, etc,) or the implied statements that machine guns are safe because only the rich can afford them. Surley that must be another answer to the criminal use of all other guns with that observation?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:30:25 AM EDT
heh, first time i have EVER heard anyone describe an uzi as a "refined" gun!

good article and cool response from the writer!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:38:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:52:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 4:53:18 AM EDT by STG77]

Originally Posted By Makarov:
I was not impressed with the article. While it may seem (on the surface) to be a gun-friendly story I see a subtle and sisnister message hidden in the text. The reporter uses quotes (probably out of context) to equate gun ownership with "motorcycles or hot cars" like just any other hobby. Personally, I am offended when firearms ownership and the 2nd are portrayed as simply a "hobby" it feeds into the whole "no useful sporting purpose" crap that the gun-grabbers like to lobby. I didn't like the expressed statements that machine gun ownership is safe because it is so regulated and the guns are registered (what a great idea to be extended to so-called assault weapons, lite .50s, sniper rifles and Saturday Night Specials, etc, etc, etc,) or the implied statements that machine guns are safe because only the rich can afford them. Surley that must be another answer to the criminal use of all other guns with that observation?







Dude, chill out. MG ownership is an expensive hobby (yes, "hobby"), like it or not.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:12:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Makarov:
I was not impressed with the article. While it may seem (on the surface) to be a gun-friendly story I see a subtle and sisnister message hidden in the text. The reporter uses quotes (probably out of context) to equate gun ownership with "motorcycles or hot cars" like just any other hobby. Personally, I am offended when firearms ownership and the 2nd are portrayed as simply a "hobby" it feeds into the whole "no useful sporting purpose" crap that the gun-grabbers like to lobby. I didn't like the expressed statements that machine gun ownership is safe because it is so regulated and the guns are registered (what a great idea to be extended to so-called assault weapons, lite .50s, sniper rifles and Saturday Night Specials, etc, etc, etc,) or the implied statements that machine guns are safe because only the rich can afford them. Surley that must be another answer to the criminal use of all other guns with that observation?







Dude, chill out. MG ownership is an expensive hobby (yes, "hobby"), like it or not.



The gun-grabbers want to trivialize all gun ownership to the status of "expensive hobby".
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:51:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 5:52:47 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Makarov:

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Makarov:
I was not impressed with the article. While it may seem (on the surface) to be a gun-friendly story I see a subtle and sisnister message hidden in the text. The reporter uses quotes (probably out of context) to equate gun ownership with "motorcycles or hot cars" like just any other hobby. Personally, I am offended when firearms ownership and the 2nd are portrayed as simply a "hobby" it feeds into the whole "no useful sporting purpose" crap that the gun-grabbers like to lobby. I didn't like the expressed statements that machine gun ownership is safe because it is so regulated and the guns are registered (what a great idea to be extended to so-called assault weapons, lite .50s, sniper rifles and Saturday Night Specials, etc, etc, etc,) or the implied statements that machine guns are safe because only the rich can afford them. Surley that must be another answer to the criminal use of all other guns with that observation?







Dude, chill out. MG ownership is an expensive hobby (yes, "hobby"), like it or not.



The gun-grabbers want to trivialize all gun ownership to the status of "expensive hobby".




More shooters trivialize gun ownership as a hobby then anti-gunners do or will, so give it a rest. What the hell is yer general malfunction that you can't see this for what it is? It not a fucking hit piece or anything like that. It was a rather well writen artical discussing what is, untill the 86 ban is gone, an expensive hobby. It is that and nothing more until MGs actually come down in price enough that the "average joe" gun buyer can afford one.

The only person trivialising anything around here is you. So chill the fuck out and just be happy that this wasn't another hit piece calling for the banning of these "weapons of mass destruction"
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:14:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 7:50:10 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]
Well the way I see it is this,
This is the only time since the 1986 machine ban that I think machine talk can get anywhere. Right now you have a large number of the left rethinking the ownership of firearms due the the BS that spawned from Katrina. Also look at the numbers of people that are moving to get their CCW. WE have them in the shop every week. People that normally would not touch a gun, buying them and getting their CCW. The article was written in a way that was pretty unbiased and just about inromation. Sure the left can spin it just like they always do, but at least it did not start out that way.

You neysayers our there can continue to cry about what the left will do or you can get off your lazy ass and be a part of the solution. Write letters. Send emails. Call your state and other state reps. The people at Larry Craigs office in ID said I call them more then some people in their own state! You should do the same. Ask your state rep to support the repeal of the 86 MG ban. Tell them that it would generate millions of dollars in rev. Join the NRA. Whether or not you like them they are our biggest tool in the fight against the grabbers. Finally, support these kind if stories. Its not often that you see a unbiased article in the paper let alone one that you can say was almost pro gun.

Half full guys, not empty!

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:24:01 AM EDT
I call

NO NEWSPAPER could ever be so sensible and unbiased.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:37:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Well the way I see it is this,
This is the only time since the 1986 machine ban that I think machine talk can get anywhere. Right now you have a large number of the left rethinking the ownership of firearms due the the BS that spawned from Katrina. Also look at the numbers of people htat are moving to get their CCW. WE have them in the shop every week. People that normally would not touch a gun, buying them and getting their CCW. The article was written in a way that was pretty unbiased and just about inromation. Sure the left can spin it just like they always do, but at least it did not start out that way.

You neysayers our there can continue to cry about what hte left will do or you can get off your lazy ass and be a part of the solution. Write letters. Send emails. Call your state nad other state reps. The peopel at Larry Craigs office in ID said i call them more then some people in their own state! You should do the same. Ask you state rep to support the repeal of the 86 MG ban. Tell them that it would generate millions of dollars in rev. Join the NRA. Whether or not you like them they are our biggest tool in the fight against the grabbers. Finally, support these kind if stories. Its not often that you see a unbiased article in the paper let alone one that you say was almost pro gun.

Half full guys, not empty!




Not only did I do that but he wants to meet some time this year in person to discuss the issue too.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:50:53 AM EDT
tag for later
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:36:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 7:42:41 AM EDT by petagunner]
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:43:02 AM EDT
tag for home review
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
ETA: Maybe we should extend an invitation to the Wallowa Valley shoot in June to this reporter?



Actually I believe he will be attending. Good time for some positive press for a change.
CH
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:21:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1jackal:
You all hear that sound.............


It's Diane Feinswine having a stroke and crapping her drawers.




Yep, it's the sound of freedom.


and maybe a little bit of swinestein also...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:41:13 AM EDT
letter sent.
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