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Posted: 1/29/2006 1:29:30 PM EDT
Davis Monthan AFB





Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:30:54 PM EDT
Such a shame. Look at all of those Tomcats.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:36:16 PM EDT
The a/c just have too many hours on their airframes to justify keeping them in service. Without huge amounts of money spent on them, they might literally fall out of the air. Or, in the case of at least some of the B-52s, treaties prevent them being used again.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:37:01 PM EDT
That first pic is a crime against humanity
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:38:16 PM EDT
IIRC, these aircraft are 'preserved' before they are parked. They can be made to fly again in a short amount of time. Anyone ever take the tour and know any specifics?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:44:36 PM EDT
How fast can they turn those into air worthy planes again? And do we even carry armaments that fit them? I'm sure we could find enough ex pilots to fly them.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:48:32 PM EDT
Look how perfectly they are parked.. wow! looks like they lined them up with a laser beam
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:50:38 PM EDT
If the hsit ever absolutely hit the fan (ANd Im talking world war 3 and 4 occurring simultanously here) a good percentage of those could be made flyable again to free up newer aircraft for the absolutely critical duties.

Although I would say at absolute best with cost as no object only about 2/3rds would be usable.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:54:37 PM EDT
I was told that they are supposed to ready to fly in 72 hours upon emergencey.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:57:06 PM EDT
We need a CAP (Civilian Airmanship Program)!

I'll take a rack grade Phantom and Eagle please!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:57:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maggot:
How fast can they turn those into air worthy planes again? And do we even carry armaments that fit them? I'm sure we could find enough ex pilots to fly them.



IIRC the planes that are more or less just mothballed (i.e. b-52's, f-14's) can be brought up to airworthiness with just basic maintenance and inspections. Some of the older stuff like all the F-4's that are basically in graveyard status would probably near impossible since they are no longer in service and the parts are probably few and far between.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:57:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 1:59:31 PM EDT by AyeGuy]
At the very least they could be modified into unmanned missles, packed with explosives and sent on one-way attack missions.

Wouln't matter how many hours are on the airframe for that flight profile

We could INNUNDATE any enemies' air defences...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:03:37 PM EDT
Anyone got coordinates for Google Earth?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:03:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 2:05:03 PM EDT by napalm]
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:04:32 PM EDT
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:07:27 PM EDT
They actually have a really powerful ECM suite that can be retrofitted onto B-52's now.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:08:18 PM EDT
put them up on E-bay

I'd buy one for my backyard
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:10:59 PM EDT
I wouldn't be surprised if they will cannibalize parts off the B-52's in storage to keep the others in the air. They have't made those bombers in 50 years. I read the existing fleet of B-52's might last until 2048. These are well made aircraft, but what a maintence nightmare.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:13:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 2:14:05 PM EDT by jimtash9]

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
That first pic is a crime against humanity



I read in today's newspaper that the Air Force is going to retire almost half of the B-52H's in service in order to fund the F-22. I believe that this will leave somewhere close to 58 aircraft in the active inventory.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Black_Rifle_Fan:
I wouldn't be surprised if they will cannibalize parts off the B-52's in storage to keep the others in the air. They have't made those bombers in 50 years. I read the existing fleet of B-52's might last until 2048. These are well made aircraft, but what a maintence nightmare.



That's exactly what they have to do.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:19:13 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:21:42 PM EDT
Thanks napalm!


I wouldn't be surprised if they will cannibalize parts off the B-52's in storage to keep the others in the air. They have't made those bombers in 50 years. I read the existing fleet of B-52's might last until 2048. These are well made aircraft, but what a maintence nightmare.



After looking it up on Google Earth, there are several there cut into pieces. I would assume they cut them up to get at the parts they want.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:22:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:25:03 PM EDT
All I want is one lowly F15 for the back yard.

Woody
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:26:43 PM EDT
If I were in charge every last one of those would be up and operational, on a nice trip to tehran.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:28:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
The a/c just have too many hours on their airframes to justify keeping them in service. Without huge amounts of money spent on them, they might literally fall out of the air. Or, in the case of at least some of the B-52s, treaties prevent them being used again.


Man that is a "10-4." Here in Calif, the CDF had a firefighting plane where the wings and seperated becasue of weakness, and the plane crashed and the crew killed.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:28:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim



Nope, is he any good an author? If so which book should i read first?

--mort
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:31:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mort:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim



Nope, is he any good an author? If so which book should i read first?

--mort



He's pretty good, Flight Of The Old Dog is one of his really good earlier ones and it focuses on a B-52
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mort:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim



Nope, is he any good an author? If so which book should i read first?

--mort



He is good. He is an ex-USAF Navigator and knows his shit.
Read the first book in the series- Flight of the Old Dog, then everything that follows. He makes the BUFF an even badder assed bird that makes you really wish it was true.
He gets the USAF details right as far as I know, while telling a great story.
Jim
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:37:46 PM EDT
Excellent, i already placed it on hold at the local library.

I wonder, if a company designed a replacement for the b52 that wasn't too expensive would the military buy it? Or does the procurement process require the government to asked for it?

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:41:56 PM EDT
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:44:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
The a/c just have too many hours on their airframes to justify keeping them in service. Without huge amounts of money spent on them, they might literally fall out of the air. Or, in the case of at least some of the B-52s, treaties prevent them being used again.



Why don't they scrap 'em then? Strip 'em down and melt 'em down?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:44:29 PM EDT
Where is KA-3B when you need him?

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:45:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



There was one doing touch and go's earlier this week, I work at 820 and White Settlement and walked outside to it flying about 500' overhead.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:48:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyAirborne:
Thanks napalm!


I wouldn't be surprised if they will cannibalize parts off the B-52's in storage to keep the others in the air. They have't made those bombers in 50 years. I read the existing fleet of B-52's might last until 2048. These are well made aircraft, but what a maintence nightmare.



After looking it up on Google Earth, there are several there cut into pieces. I would assume they cut them up to get at the parts they want.



No, they cut them up in compliance with the START treaty. Slice & dice them, leave them for the satellites to photograph. The parts may or may not already be off.


Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim



Nope, is he any good an author? If so which book should i read first?

--mort



He is good. He is an ex-USAF Navigator and knows his shit.
Read the first book in the series- Flight of the Old Dog, then everything that follows. He makes the BUFF an even badder assed bird that makes you really wish it was true.
He gets the USAF details right as far as I know, while telling a great story.
Jim



Interestingly, I've talked to BUFF drivers and navs who knew him. They have their own opinion of his worth as a navigator. Let's just put it this way--there's a reason he got out of the USAF as a captain. Not dangerous, but not stellar, especially in the old SAC days.

Having said that, he is a good storyteller.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:52:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim




Well some people on this board would insist that Jack Bauer has replaced Chuck and then some.

I would suggest not really a replacement of the B52's, but more of an extensive upgrade. From what i understand the tooling to make new B52's no longer exists, so if you have to remake the tooling you might as well sqeeze in as many improvements as possible. Could you make a B52 stealth capable? How about more efficient engines for more time on target? Would it be cool if you could set up a B52 to be like a giant predator drone without pilots, but still be able to flatten a city? Then when that particular plane returns how about setting it up for an AC-130H Spectre gunship type mission?

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:53:43 PM EDT
Surely we don't honor the old START Treaties anymore. The USSR is dead. The Soviets saw START as a way of slowing down the US while they caught up. They never honored a treaty in their lives.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:55:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:

Originally Posted By ArmyAirborne:
Thanks napalm!


I wouldn't be surprised if they will cannibalize parts off the B-52's in storage to keep the others in the air. They have't made those bombers in 50 years. I read the existing fleet of B-52's might last until 2048. These are well made aircraft, but what a maintence nightmare.



After looking it up on Google Earth, there are several there cut into pieces. I would assume they cut them up to get at the parts they want.



No, they cut them up in compliance with the START treaty. Slice & dice them, leave them for the satellites to photograph. The parts may or may not already be off.


Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Ever read Dale Brown?

Jim



Nope, is he any good an author? If so which book should i read first?

--mort



He is good. He is an ex-USAF Navigator and knows his shit.
Read the first book in the series- Flight of the Old Dog, then everything that follows. He makes the BUFF an even badder assed bird that makes you really wish it was true.
He gets the USAF details right as far as I know, while telling a great story.
Jim



Interestingly, I've talked to BUFF drivers and navs who knew him. They have their own opinion of his worth as a navigator. Let's just put it this way--there's a reason he got out of the USAF as a captain. Not dangerous, but not stellar, especially in the old SAC days.

Having said that, he is a good storyteller.



I meant the details in his books. I have no knowledge of his performance in the AF.
You talked to people who knew and worked with him? Cool!
I wasn't in the military so I have to take other's word for some things. I had a few friends in the AF tht told me his stuff was basically realistic. It didn't matter, it's still a good story.
Jim
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:56:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRTX:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



There was one doing touch and go's earlier this week, I work at 820 and White Settlement and walked outside to it flying about 500' overhead.



Back in the early 80's I was driving a friend to near Big Bear from San Diego at Oh-Dark-Thirty. We stopped at dawn to grab some breakfast at a little cafe along the road very near March AFB.

About 10 minutes after we stopped what appeared to be the ENTIRE WING launched, many staying in the pattern.

Something like that, watching a few DOZEN B-52, at close range, launch into dawn is a religious experience.

20+ years later and I can still hear, feel and smell them as they darkend the sky and left your chest vibrating from the sound.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:58:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
That first pic is a crime against humanity



I read in today's newspaper that the Air Force is going to retire almost half of the B-52H's in service in order to fund the F-22. I believe that this will leave somewhere close to 58 aircraft in the active inventory.



Not only that. USAF wants to completely retire the F-117 to fund F-22 as well.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 2:59:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By RRTX:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



There was one doing touch and go's earlier this week, I work at 820 and White Settlement and walked outside to it flying about 500' overhead.



Back in the early 80's I was driving a friend to near Big Bear from San Diego at Oh-Dark-Thirty. We stopped at dawn to grab some breakfast at a little cafe along the road very near March AFB.

About 10 minutes after we stopped what appeared to be the ENTIRE WING launched, many staying in the pattern.

Something like that, watching a few DOZEN B-52, at close range, launch into dawn is a religious experience.

20+ years later and I can still hear, feel and smell them as they darkend the sky and left your chest vibrating from the sound.




Yup! Nothing like the sound of freedom!
Jim
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:18:01 PM EDT
What's in the 3rd pic? It looks like Crusaders or Corsair IIs.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:19:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scrum:
We need a CAP (Civilian Airmanship Program)!

I'll take a rack grade Phantom and Eagle please!



You mean like Civil Air Patrol?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:20:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



The B1B is more than a replacement, IMO. It can do whatever the B52 can and more.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:23:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:
That first pic is a crime against humanity



I read in today's newspaper that the Air Force is going to retire almost half of the B-52H's in service in order to fund the F-22. I believe that this will leave somewhere close to 58 aircraft in the active inventory.



Not only that. USAF wants to completely retire the F-117 to fund F-22 as well.



Seeing as the F-117's role can be accomplished by the F-22, I don't see that as that big of a problem.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:24:12 PM EDT
Back in '84 when I was in school in Huachuca, I used to have to take this guy to the hospital at DM every friday (Only student with POV and it got me a 3 day passand payed for gas!!!) While he was in seeing the doc, I used to just sit there outside the parking area and almost cry over all the planes. If you think the pics are depressing, try looking at it for real. It is truly sad to see all those aircraft wasting away.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:28:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



Should turn them into one-way drones to Mecca as dirty bombs.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mort:
We should take them B-52's and turn them into the equivalent of a AC-130H Spectre gunship. Or some other application, instead of letting them rot. I wonder if someone came up with a weapon development project if they could get thier hands on a couple of them B-52's for R&D.



I'll be the ....

Uh, they're not maneuverable enough for that role.....
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 3:32:45 PM EDT by pv74]
That's a LOT O 'luminum...

Take them to the scrapyard for beer money
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 3:40:11 PM EDT by Zakk_Wylde_470]

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



The B1B is more than a replacement, IMO. It can do whatever the B52 can and more.



Well it can't launch Harpoon anti-ship missiles (among lots of other air-to-ground munitions), so right there your statement is an outright lie.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:48:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
A replacemtn for the B-52? Thats like a replacement for Chuck Norris- there ain't one!
Of course the B-1 and B-2 were supposed to replace it, but you just can't keep a BUFF down.
Damn I miss hearing them out at Carswell!
Jim



The B1B is more than a replacement, IMO. It can do whatever the B52 can and more.



Well it can't launch Harpoon anti-ship missiles (among lots of other air-to-ground munitions), so right there your statement is an outright lie.



Agreed. Also can't carry the payload, since the hardpoints on the wings are epoxied over (another START thing). Also isn't nuclear-capable anymore.
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