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Posted: 1/29/2006 8:24:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:59:47 AM EDT by SigSaurP228]
Yesterday afternoon was beautifull weather in East Tennessee. I decided that I was going to go outside, and work on my boat for a little bit. Soo I am outside working on my boat, and my neighbor Jessica, comes over to the fence (this is a different neighbor than the Bumpasses posted in team).

Jessica comes ovr to my fence and starts telling me, that she and live in boyfriend had just broken up, and that he was being a little violent, and that she doesn't have a phone in the house at all. She asked me if I see him around that I should call the police, I have no problems with this, but I am not going to play hero or get involved in any other way. While she is talking I just had this feeling my ears perked up and I noticed, someone out of the corner of my eye running full blast all out balls to the wall running as hard as he can.

He started out at my street corner, and I am the first house on the street, about half way between the street corner and my house I figured out that it was the ex. He started yelling I knew you were screwing my girlfriend, you as****** I am going to kill you, you Fu**** I am going to kick your ass, you are going to die etc. etc. etc.

At this point I am retreating because I wasn't carying I had left my carry gun on my front porch, I retreated as quickly as possible, to my front porch and to my carry gun. This situation at this point happened extremely quickly, It felt like from the time that I first saw him to the time he started threatning, took less than 10 seconds.

I reched my gun, and time slowed down. I can remember every sickening detail from this point, I drew m gun from my Fobus and I will tell you that when you are getting ready to use your firearm, and drawing from a Kydex holster the noise when the comes out is sickening, by the time, I intially pulled my gun boyfriend was coming through the gate in my fence.

I drew the gun leveled it and Yelled in a very demanding voice STOP. Boyfriend kept moving towards me and saying that he was going to kill me. Second warning I yelled STOP DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER. Still didn't phase Boyfriend but he was still probably 10 feet away and I was already drawn so I decided for one last warning I yelled, STOP DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER THIS GUN HAS LIVE AMMUNITION AND I AM FULLY PREPARED TO USE IT.
After the third warning boyfriend decided that he was going to stop, he decided to yell one last threat while backing up according to him "One day I will catch you without a gun and I will kill you". He was backing up, and said it so I stayed leveled on him and he retreated.


The thoughts going through my mind I can remember.

Assess the situation
End the situation with as little violence as possible.
Know what is behind your target (in my case an empty house)
Concentrate on Sight picture
Squeeze don't pull.

It is amazing how quickly you revert to your training. Everything came second nature, I did everything exactly as I trained to. Training is essential.

After he was out of visual sight I called the police, they didn't seem to interested in it until I mentioned that I had pulled a firearm, and then all of a sudden, cars showed up from everywhere I told the lady on the phone that my firearm was secured and I would be unarmed when the police arrived. They came and patted me down, made sure that I wasn't armed. Took my statement took the witnesses statements, looked at my Firearm (dumb ass me had gone shooting Friday and still hadn't cleaned yet). Off the record the police officer said that the only thing he would have done differently is he would have shot him both police officers said the same thing. Unfortunatly tb called me 30 minutes later and said I may have to face a brandishing charge, he is going to reccommend no charges filed, however because I wasn't in my house but I was on my property I could still face brandishing charges.

Boyfriend is in jail for aggravated tresspassing, simple assault, and driving on a suspended license. They never even confiscated my gun, they simply shook my hand and walked away.

Things I learned

1. Situational Awareness is always important

2. Train Train Train Train then when you are done with that TRAIN some more.

3 Be prepared to engage the threat Physically Mentally and Emotionally I.e. I didn't want to kill him and took everystep that I could to not kill him one more advance after my last warning would have been shots fired.


Ok guys this happened yesterday at 13:50 lets hear your Monday morning quarterbacking, and your advice as to what I should do next.

ETA I am getting a copy of the police report as soon as possible, I will maybe see if I can scan it and post it.



Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:29:46 AM EDT
In before some idiot claims


Sounds like you did well.


AFAS shooting him, he was unarmed. Unless he could have cleared whipped your ass and took the gun, you'd have a hard time justifying that shoot.


Well done.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:35:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:38:23 AM EDT by MikeDFW]
Something similiar happened to me. It was dark and on my own property.
I had every LEGAL right to pop his ass and I didn't, stupid me, because he
gave me TWO years of shit before he moved out. He was my next door
drug neighbor.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:36:27 AM EDT
What part of East TN are you in ??
I to live in East TN.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:36:27 AM EDT
Sounds like you did good to me.

Now go boink his GF for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:38:01 AM EDT
Why weren't you at a carwash? These stories are always better at carwashes.

PS Good on you. Watch your six; he sounds like a complete pos to me.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:38:11 AM EDT
I would have taken his words seriously and shot him.
You do not know his training (whether is be martial arts, etc) and if he had any weapons on him.
His words were good enough in my book....

now, on the other hand, if you shot him, *SHE* would instantly fall in love with the guy and blame you...possibly even giving false witness testimony

be careful
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:39:13 AM EDT
Not bad, pretty quick thinking on your part I must say. You would of had more fun beating him with a shovel though...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:40:41 AM EDT
So you retreated to your porch with a man literally CHARGING you on YOUR property, REPEATEDLY and AGGRESSIVELY threatening to kill you. You draw, give him MULTIPLE warnings to withdraw and there's a threat to charge YOU with brandishing because you weren't inside your house?

What utter horseshit!

Sounds like you did just fine.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:42:13 AM EDT
Interesting, glad it has worked out sofar...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:42:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:44:39 AM EDT by SigSaurP228]
My thoughts were end situation with as little violence as possible, according to the police officers, I probably would have been justified but my thoughts were it would have been one hell of a court battle and cost me thousands and thousands of dollars. As it stands right now I am already looking to lawyer up for the possible brandishing charges.


I was extremely surprised that his ex-girlfriend was very honest when telling the story, her story matched mine right down to the words used. They were perfectly matching.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:44:58 AM EDT
I suppose that there is always going to be something that can be nitpicked - but it sounds to me like you did the right thing.



What was your neighbor, Jessica doing when all of this was transpiring? ... or did you not notice (tunnel vision, etc.)



Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:45:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:46:45 AM EDT
Yeah, no sense in getting yourself in alot of horseshit over some loser. It's not worth the effort..
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:46:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:47:51 AM EDT
Sounds like you did well.

The only thing I might suggest is the statement:

"STOP DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER THIS GUN HAS LIVE AMMUNITION AND I AM FULLY PREPARED TO USE IT. "

use short command verbage.

"STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!!"


Also think about the 3 things that must be present in a lethal force encounter.

Ability.
Opportunity.
Intent.


The bad guy needs to have all 3 before lethal force is used.

Did your bad guy have all 3?? He had the "intent" by his statement "I am going to kill you"

He had "opportunity". He was closeing the distance and coming towards you aggresively.

Did he have the "ability" to carry out his "intent" statement (I am going to kill you!)

Doesn't sound like it if he wasn't carrying anything (gun, knife, bat, stick, scewdriver,.etc...)

That's the only part that had a shooting taken place, might prove difficult for you.



Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:48:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:51:56 AM EDT by SigSaurP228]

Originally Posted By 50cal:
Go to the local PD and report it ASAFP! A threat against your life needs to be documented. In Tenn. drawing your weapon and presenting it can get you in trouble if he reports it.
Better beat him to the punch.



911 was called immediatly as he was retreating. I allready have a police incident report, being worked on I can get it Wednesday or Thursday.


BOOG yes I should have shortened the verbage, I know the guys had a prior criminal record and there is a good chance that he was tripped out on drugs as well.


I handed the officers both my carry permit and my drivers license, they never even bothered to run my record.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
My thoughts were end situation with as little violence as possible, according to the police officers, I probably would have been justified but my thoughts were it would have been one hell of a court battle and cost me thousands and thousands of dollars. As it stands right now I am already looking to lawyer up for the possible brandishing charges.


I was extremely surprised that his ex-girlfriend was very honest when telling the story, her story matched mine right down to the words used. They were perfectly matching.



Don't worry. I just can't beleive your situation almost like a mirror image of mine.
The officiers who showed up at my incident did the same thing. They wrote it up as justified!
I later found out that my perp had a record a mile long from assault to intent to sell.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:49:55 AM EDT
you left your gun on THE FRONT PORCH??.

first rule, if the gun comes out of the safe it stays on your body. not sure if there are kids running around your neighborhood or in your house but how would you feel if somebody got ahold of your gun ON THE FRONT PORCH while you were deep in your boat concentrating on some problem?

seriously, your whole world would end if some neighbor kid wandered on your porch and hurt himself or another with your unattened weapon.

other than that you did ok.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:50:23 AM EDT
Restraining order. State to judge you are in fear for your life. The guy has obviously gone delusional over a piece of pie.

That way when he shows up at 2 a.m. through your window and you poke .22 inch holes in him no one can question your motivations for doing so.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:52:39 AM EDT by 50cal]
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:50:48 AM EDT

Interesting that the cops said you should have shot him.

Interesting also how mentioning gun gets a reaction but the rest of the story is seems to merely be "paperwork".

What if it had been a knife or crossbow?

I will never understand the big deal about using a gun vs another deadly or potentially deadly weapon (such as the crossbow, knife, baseball bat, etc).

If one is going to hurt somebody or not, being a projecticle weapon or not, makes no difference.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:52:10 AM EDT
So was this gun you displayed a nine sillimeter? A fotay would have scared him off right away, or better yet should have racked a shottie.



Really, what gun was it, 228?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
--big snip--
Unfortunatly tb called me 30 minutes later and said I may have to face a brandishing charge, he is going to reccommend no charges filed, however because I wasn't in my house but I was on my property I could still face brandishing charges.



Un-fucking-real.

Ya did good, Sig.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:54:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:55:58 AM EDT by SigSaurP228]

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
you left your gun on THE FRONT PORCH??.

first rule, if the gun comes out of the safe it stays on your body. not sure if there are kids running around your neighborhood or in your house but how would you feel if somebody got ahold of your gun ON THE FRONT PORCH while you were deep in your boat concentrating on some problem?

seriously, your whole world would end if some neighbor kid wandered on your porch and hurt himself or another with your unattened weapon.

other than that you did ok.




Stormwalker I definitly understand your point, I live alone, there is no reason for children to be in my yard, I would see them opening the gate, before they would ever have a chance to make it to the porch. The gun was probably 20 feet away.


ETA Az-K9 it was a Glock 19 and surprisingly I didn't feel that it was inadequete I really felt that if I had shot, it would have accomplished its goal.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:02:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I suppose that there is always going to be something that can be nitpicked - but it sounds to me like you did the right thing.



What was your neighbor, Jessica doing when all of this was transpiring? ... or did you not notice (tunnel vision, etc.)







Good question DK-prof she was yelling at him to stop, she was telling that we weren't doing anything, and she was telling him, that there is really no reason to try and do this. I heard her screaming but I really didn't see her, I really couldn't see much out of my periphial vision. Apparently her young children saw the whole thing as well, because one of them asked if I was still mad at boyfriend he also asked if I was going to hurt Boyfriend., and the other asked if that was a real gun that I had pulled.

I answered the first question to the child as no I was not mad at him, but I was scared that he was going to try and hurt me or Jessica (her mother) and said that I didn't want that to happen.

The second question, I simply said yes, and the child asked if she could see the gun I said NO
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:02:20 AM EDT

At this point I am retreating because I wasn't carying I had left my carry gun on my front porch,


ALWAYS CARRY YER FUCKING GUN!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:07:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:09:15 AM EDT by NoVaGator]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Sounds like you did good to me.

Now go boink his GF for the hell of it.



yeah, no joke....if you're going to get offed for it, you might as well do it

Also, "I had left my carry gun on my front porch" is something that you'd only hear in TN

Did you lean it up on your jar of squeezins?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:11:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Sounds like you did good to me.

Now go boink his GF for the hell of it.



yeah, no joke....if you're going to get offed for it, you might as well do it

Also, "I had left my carry gun on my front porch" is something that you'd only hear in TN

Did you lean it up on your jar of squeezins?



No way in hell would I bonk his girlfriend why in the hell would you add fuel to a tense situation,


Neighbor boy is back and they are arguing outside again, I am not a hero I just defended myself yesterday, all though I thinking I am going to call the cops again.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:13:20 AM EDT by GreyGoose]




Not a slam...but didnt you just have problems with the neighbors kids climbing over your fence to play on your boat?? Or was that the ones that moved out??

Secure that weapon son....other than that.....you done good
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:14:44 AM EDT
This scenario has been kind of a personal nightmare of mine.

Being approached by an unarmed person who has the intent and opportunity (but not the apparent ability) to do me grievous or lethal bodily harm.

The crazed person coming at me saying he is going to kill me or the banger coming in saying "I'm gonna fuck you up man!"

Difficult spot to make a lethal force decision in.

Again I say the poster did good.

He found himself in a bad situation and prevailed.

This does make me think about having that "less then lethal" option though.

eg--Fox pepper spray.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:17:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Sounds like you did good to me.

Now go boink his GF for the hell of it.



yeah, no joke....if you're going to get offed for it, you might as well do it

Also, "I had left my carry gun on my front porch" is something that you'd only hear in TN

Did you lean it up on your jar of squeezins?



No way in hell would I bonk his girlfriend why in the hell would you add fuel to a tense situation,


Neighbor boy is back and they are arguing outside again, I am not a hero I just defended myself yesterday, all though I thinking I am going to call the cops again.



If he's outside right now. CALL the police. NOW.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:17:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreyGoose:



Not a slam...but didnt you just have problems with the neighbors kids climbing over your fence to play on your boat?? Or was that the ones that moved out??

Secure that weapon son....other than that.....you done good




I understand your point however the weapon never stays out of my sight. I could see the weapon, and there is no way anybody could have gotten to it quicker than me.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:19:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:20:11 AM EDT by Beefypeanut]
Maybe she should get a restraining order against him?

ETA: Sounds like you did good. I know what it's like to pull out a weapon and be prepared to use it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:20:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Sounds like you did good to me.

Now go boink his GF for the hell of it.



yeah, no joke....if you're going to get offed for it, you might as well do it

Also, "I had left my carry gun on my front porch" is something that you'd only hear in TN

Did you lean it up on your jar of squeezins?



No way in hell would I bonk his girlfriend why in the hell would you add fuel to a tense situation,


Neighbor boy is back and they are arguing outside again, I am not a hero I just defended myself yesterday, all though I thinking I am going to call the cops again.



If he's outside right now. CALL the police. NOW.




Police are called and here. I am staying in my house with the deadbolt locked and my AR, 590, and P228 at my side P228 on my hip with 5 extra mags.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:20:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:21:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:


Neighbor boy is back and they are arguing outside again, I am not a hero I just defended myself yesterday, all though I thinking I am going to call the cops again.



If he's outside right now. CALL the police. NOW.




+1

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:24:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:24:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:25:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:
Maybe sheBOTH OF YOU should get a restraining order against him?

ETA: Sounds like you did good. I know what it's like to pull out a weapon and be prepared to use it.

Fixed it for you!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:26:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:28:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
I yelled, STOP DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER THIS GUN HAS LIVE AMMUNITION AND I AM FULLY PREPARED TO USE IT.



How you'd have the wherewithall... to make this statement while under such stress is beyond me
I'd pobably be unable to mutter anything as clear and cohereant...

Then again.. I'll I could really say is:

"Stop!... or I'll say Stop, again...."
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:30:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Girlieman:

Then again.. I'll I could really say is:

"Stop!... or I'll say Stop, again...."

Sorry 'bout you living in one of those countries.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:31:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:

Afraid not on that first one. You can't shoot someone simply cause they hit you with their fist in TN. You WILL go to jail bigtime


With the statement of "I'm going to kill you" makes it a legal shoot. Got that one straight from the DA in Nashville.

With witnesses it only substantiates his story.



The justification for the use of deadly force is "imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury." If there is enough of a disparity in either the size or perceived skill of an attacker so that a reasonable person believes that he is in such danger, deadly force may be used.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:35:33 AM EDT
You should definetly TAP the neighbor now...
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:36:43 AM EDT
If that happened here in CT your picture would be on the front page of the paper and they would be calling you a terrorist with a cache of weapons. If they found gun powder for reloading in your house they would also say you had a bomb making facility. Since you are in a red state they will probably give you a medal for heroism.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:38:09 AM EDT
I just went outside and spoke to the police officer that responded. Different guy than responded yesterday but he was briefed on what happened. I asked him if I should file a restraining order he said that sounds like a good plan. I didn't get involved the lock is on the gate. My perimeter is as secure as it can be. I am hunkered down, I want no further involvement. I am prepared to defend myself as neccessary, but it stops there. I think the police realize how close that guy came to being killed. He was outside pointing at my house, and waving his arms but he was smart enough, to stay the fuck out. Apparently he is moving back in with her as well.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:41:36 AM EDT
Good thing you two weren't in TX for it to happen "I knew you were screwing my girlfriend, I'm going to fucking kill yo-" ::runs on property:: ::BANG::
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
I just went outside and spoke to the police officer that responded. Different guy than responded yesterday but he was briefed on what happened. I asked him if I should file a restraining order he said that sounds like a good plan. I didn't get involved the lock is on the gate. My perimeter is as secure as it can be. I am hunkered down, I want no further involvement. I am prepared to defend myself as neccessary, but it stops there. I think the police realize how close that guy came to being killed. He was outside pointing at my house, and waving his arms but he was smart enough, to stay the fuck out. Apparently he is moving back in with her as well.


I knew this would happen the minute I read the story....ya should have shot him dude.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:42:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
I just went outside and spoke to the police officer that responded. Different guy than responded yesterday but he was briefed on what happened. I asked him if I should file a restraining order he said that sounds like a good plan. I didn't get involved the lock is on the gate. My perimeter is as secure as it can be. I am hunkered down, I want no further involvement. I am prepared to defend myself as neccessary, but it stops there. I think the police realize how close that guy came to being killed. He was outside pointing at my house, and waving his arms but he was smart enough, to stay the fuck out. Apparently he is moving back in with her as well.



Have fun.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
You can't shoot someone simply cause they hit you with their fist in TN. You WILL go to jail bigtime.



Arguing a point of law here....

TJ made a good point. Maybe it's me but I don't see the justification to draw down and think there is a better than not chance you will be charged. If you could run to the porch you could have ran in the house to safety. If the BG had a weapon or tried to force his way into your house it would be a different story.

Verbal threats are not enough justification to introduce a weapon.

This guy would have to be kicking your ass so bad that you would have to think you were going to go unconcious before you could shoot him.

If deadly force is not justified you should not draw down. Don't pull it out unless you are prepared to put it away smoking.
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